Somalia and Freedom. How Far Does It Go?

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DR OSMAN

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As everyone know, I am passionate secularist based on a number of historical reasons, common sense reasons, and how our culture is set up. But we need to discuss how far do we want freedom go in our society? there is no unrestricted freedom, for example I can't be free to kill who-ever I want and argue it's my freedom to do so!!! There has to be a fine line or some sort of measuring stick.

I think your freedom should be automatically taken away from you as soon as it impacts on someone else. For example, I am strongly against abortion which most secularist support. The right of life should be protected, who gives you the right to take away someone life? See in this instance I will not support freedom of decision or choice for someone because it is impacting on someone else liberty, life, freedom, etc.

But I support freedom for people to choose whether they believe or disbelieve in a religion, whether they do good or bad things as long the impact isn't harming someone else. For example two gay people, As long they keep it to themselves and not impacting on someone else, I feel that is their right. But if all of society is starting to turn gay then this is a collective matter for the society to decide because it could send us to extinction.

I think freedom of thought, ideas, views, opinions should be unrestricted as long as it's not impacting on someone else freedom to do the same. I feel an atheist, christian, jew, or whatever should have exactly the same rights as a Muslim in preaching their religion, we have no right to take away their freedom, just like they should not impede on ours. We want our society where people are free as much as possible as per how god made us free.

The less freedom we have, the more we are going against how god created the world. He said good and evil will exist till the day of judgement. Religion teaches us to stay away from evil not to ban it because by banning evil you immediately impede on the freedom of people to choose which impacts on religions whole purpose which is free will. Without free will there is no more testing, so it's paramount freedom is the backbone of our system.

Religion is about letting you decide and you can't decide if good and evil do not co-exist not banning it, because if you ban something there is no way people can be tested. No freedom means no point of religion and there is no more testing. A disbeliever can go to Allah and say I did not get a fair life because my freedom which you bestowed on me was taken away from me by mere men, how can allah judge a person who lost the ability to freely choose!!!!

We must implement and teach a new form of islam that is consistent with our common sense and thinking not regurgiated from medieval times. How do we know Ibn taymiyah was right in his interpretation or he didn't have political objectives? how do we know this? if an idea is better then ibn taymiyah are we going to reject because ibn taymiyah didn't say it? this is more jahiliyah and identity politics focusing on people on who they are and not what they are actually saying!!!

So what's everyone view on freedom, it's a huge topic and every society needs to discuss it when state building and enacting laws. America had this discussion centuries ago, we are yet to have this discussion!!! But we must agree on one thing without freedom the whole point of religion and life itself is pointless.
 
What you're describing is called the Harm Principle in philosophy: people should be free to do as they please so long as they harm nobody. It's a good rule and should form the basis of all legislation.

I would only add that we don't need to invent a new Islam. Islam is perfect as it is. What we need to do is rediscover the libertarian thinking in Islam that is encouraged by numerous verses in the Quran like "There is no compulsion in religion", and the rational traditions of Islamic thought such as the Mu'tazilah.

The rationalist tradition produced great thinkers and poets like Ibn Arabi and Ibn Sina who translated the works of Aristotle and helped to preserve Greek philosophy.

There used to be dozens of madhabs. Most were suppressed violently till there were only four. We need to rekindle the other traditions, and where necessary, create new ones that are in line with human rights, freedom, and secularism.
 

DR OSMAN

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I love your ideas bidaar wanagsan. Your a very wise-man, you know a religion can be exactly the same but the interpretation can be updated and fitted into whatever is the best interpretation of the day. The quran is just a book, it doesn't interpret itself, it requires human to extract meaning from it. Now the question is are we going to stick to identity politics and only listen to interpretations of certain authorities in the past just because of who they are or are we going to open up Islam and allow all interpretations and madhabs to open up and we select which-ever is in-line with the themes of the religion and how it relates to today.

I mean some of these scholars do not even respect freedom which is the corner stone of religion, without freedom there is no-way to test people anymore and religion loses all meaning, that's why free-will is paramount and a backbone of religion. Freedom is not just what religion you choose but even if you want to be gay, drink alcohol, do zina, party all day. This is your right in this world as allah allowed satan to exist till the end of judgement day. You cannot ban what allah hasn't banned. As you noted in a few other threads, there is no such thing as banning in the quran because if there is which I highly doubt it would go against free will and then the question will arise how can I be tested if I don't have the choice to do as I please which throws religion on it's backside.

We must accept free will is the corner stone of religion, because the second you take it away, all religion falls on itself. Can you logically explain to me how someone can be tested if they don't have the freedom to do as they please? if you can figure that one out for me, I would love to hear it. The quran from my understanding and I am no sheikh, but from my understanding it says stay away from evil not ban it. You can't ban evil, it's been allowed to exist for the sole purpose of testing people, it's telling you to stay away from it only. If the quran doesn't say that, there is huge implications for the deen as a whole.

So if someone is gay, drinking, partying, doing zina we must respect his freedom to do so as long as it's not impacting on you or he is not forcing you to do it, I do not see a problem with it. A disbeliever has all the right to disbelieve and do all sorts of evil just like a believer has the right to believe and do all good, to restrict either one is to cause a huge problem for islam. If you restricted even good people from practising their deen, this same logic applies. How can allah test someone to be good if a govt disallowed them from practising and being good!!!

That's why we must implement freedom on both sides it's the only way really. Evil has freedom just like satan has had freedom from allah and good has equal freedom and then let everyone choose as they wish, that's how life should be. It shouldn't be a place of jannah, this no jannah this earth, maba loo tala galin meeshani inu janno ahaado, so you can try to bann all evil but it will never be jannah whatever you do!!!
 
@DR OSMAN

The Quran said that if people did not sin, Allah would replace them with people who did so they could turn to Allah in repentance. Islam expects human beings to fall in sin. That's why Human beings are greater than angels because angels do not have free will and cannot sin. It's only when a person is tempted and overcomes temptation that he is showing his love for Allah.

Islam = freedom to choose.
 

DR OSMAN

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Bidaar notice how they make
@DR OSMAN

The Quran said that if people did not sin, Allah would replace them with people who did so they could turn to Allah in repentance. Islam expects human beings to fall in sin. That's why Human beings are greater than angels because angels do not have free will and cannot sin. It's only when a person is tempted and overcomes temptation that he is showing his love for Allah.

Islam = freedom to choose.
U notice how the salafist make the 'ilmani' seem like the devil and absolutely horrendous to the ummah, it's got this connotation of 'evil' automatically where we are supposedly over-ruling the quran with our own man made laws. They sell it quite well wallahi to the flock!!! I personally don't listen to imams anymore unless it's total spiritual, the second he ventures into politics I automatically raise an alarm-bell and block the nonsense out!!! Why in the world would I listen to someone who has no expertise in the area he is commenting on, I feel like yelling from the mosque at them STICK YOUR DISCIPLINE IMAM but just remain silent and pray the secular mujahideen come storming in and say 'IMAM YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR COMMENTING ON A FIELD YOU HAVE NO EXPERTISE IN' WE THE GOVT DO NOT VENTURE INTO YOUR AREA OR MAKE ANY LAWS AGAINST IT HOW DARE YOU VENTURE INTO OUR WORLD!!! :ahh:
 

DR OSMAN

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When the imam ventures into fields other then religion or uses religion to influence other areas where he has no expertise, it's clear there is an agenda. I am not sure who put money in his bank account but someone surely did. Imam tawhidi said search their bank accounts find the trail where it leads and you will know why they hold such political views as their funder!!!

Their are bad imams out there sxb who use their position of influence to change people into the way they want them to think, it's breeding ground for brainwashing people into salafism. The reason salafism is politically important is quite clear. Imagine when farmaajo goes to saudi arabia, if he doesnt do as they say, they will get the country's clerics who were taught in saudi arabia to denounce the government and get the people to listen to the imam and through that cause instability. The agenda purely is political sxb, it's to create saudi drones in somalia and around the world, it has nothing to do with religion at all that is just the PLATFORM only. The best way to influence people is through the mosque. Have you ever seen them condemn saudi arabia? not one sheikh has even all the terrible things that happen there!!! :faysalwtf:
 

DR OSMAN

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Bidaar Wanagsan, we seriously going to have to secularize the country or else we will be susceptible to all these saudi agents(imams) coming in causing instability in the future because the line between state and religion hasn't be defined. Heck even where the line has been clearly defined, they still go in and brainwash the flock like the west. But at least we will have power to immediately arrest them if we set up that line now.

We will allow them to preach their nonsense, some people like hearing the shit, it's their right but the second it starts to impacting on others(the harm principle) in the nation and cause instability, we will go in and enforce the law and remind them what country their in.

Why in the world are we the only islamic country that can't figure out our own religion without the influence of foreigners. Why has malaysia, indonesia, turkey, even dubai figured out their religion and the role it plays in their society. The wahabis are trying to get a foothold in there but they know the line has been so defined, the intelligence service can come barging in and taking imams out by the beard!!!
 
Bidaar notice how they make


U notice how the salafist make the 'ilmani' seem like the devil and absolutely horrendous to the ummah, it's got this connotation of 'evil' automatically where we are supposedly over-ruling the quran with our own man made laws. They sell it quite well wallahi to the flock!!! I personally don't listen to imams anymore unless it's total spiritual, the second he ventures into politics I automatically raise an alarm-bell and block the nonsense out!!! Why in the world would I listen to someone who has no expertise in the area he is commenting on, I feel like yelling from the mosque at them STICK YOUR DISCIPLINE IMAM but just remain silent and pray the secular mujahideen come storming in and say 'IMAM YOUR UNDER ARREST FOR COMMENTING ON A FIELD YOU HAVE NO EXPERTISE IN' WE THE GOVT DO NOT VENTURE INTO YOUR AREA OR MAKE ANY LAWS AGAINST IT HOW DARE YOU VENTURE INTO OUR WORLD!!! :ahh:
Yes, imams should not step out of their field. They should leave science to scientists, politics to politicians, and social issues to intellectuals. Their only job is to lead salat. I used to ignore wadaads who preach on controversial subjects beyond their expertise during khutbah which should be focused on spirituality, but these days I heckle them and shout them down:

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/fight-breaks-out-in-masjid.28676/
 
When the imam ventures into fields other then religion or uses religion to influence other areas where he has no expertise, it's clear there is an agenda. I am not sure who put money in his bank account but someone surely did. Imam tawhidi said search their bank accounts find the trail where it leads and you will know why they hold such political views as their funder!!!

Their are bad imams out there sxb who use their position of influence to change people into the way they want them to think, it's breeding ground for brainwashing people into salafism. The reason salafism is politically important is quite clear. Imagine when farmaajo goes to saudi arabia, if he doesnt do as they say, they will get the country's clerics who were taught in saudi arabia to denounce the government and get the people to listen to the imam and through that cause instability. The agenda purely is political sxb, it's to create saudi drones in somalia and around the world, it has nothing to do with religion at all that is just the PLATFORM only. The best way to influence people is through the mosque. Have you ever seen them condemn saudi arabia? not one sheikh has even all the terrible things that happen there!!! :faysalwtf:
A delegation of scholars met recently in Chechnya to denounce Saudi Wahabbism. They're a threat to the ummah. Nobody educated in KSA should lead a masjid.
 

DR OSMAN

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Bidaar I think the best society is where freedom is just everywhere. Where there is diversity and not just one way of everything. Imagine there is church, syngagoue, temples, nightclubs, casinos, alcohol, and every evil you can think of and then right beside it is a mosque where good people can go. At least we can go to Allah in day of judgement and tell him, we didn't want to take away the free will from anyone be it good and bad people, we gave them equal freedom, rights, and justice to pursue what they wish just like you gave equal right to Shaydhan to exist along-side you in the dunya to persist. You see the common sense, you are relating yourself back to how god would handle something because this is the greatest source of wisdom.

I feel if you can't justify yourself to god in the day of judgement marki lagu sucalayo, I do not know how your going to end up in heaven. This life is a test and tests about justifying your answers on the test. If you can't justify your actions to god, Good luck to you. They think it's as simple as just praying 5 times a day and that's it which anyone can do. The best Muslim is the one who uses his brain when he has too for worldly affairs, reflects spiritually to god either through praying, studying, exploring his design and the one who also can justify his actions while on the earth. That to me is a true muslim, not these repeat your 5 times prayer and then go behead someone because he disagrees with you.
 

DR OSMAN

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I am yet to see a mosque that is 21st century, it's always about the past and what others did in the past. There is many verses in the quran that tells you not to look back, remember noah wife who looked back, that's what humans always do sxb, always looking back. We must look forward at all times, because the quran tells the hour no-one knows which is time, the time just keeps ticking on and if your not catching up Allah will not stop the time for you.

Can I ask you bro, how did you get into salafism, what are some of their tricks? I don't pay attention to them after I did once and listened carefully if what they are saying is something that corresponds to our brain. I rejected it very quickly and saw it as a filthy idealogy, but what got you into their crowd bro? I bet you were eating with the 3 fingers weren't you? Imagine that going to Allah and saying I ate with 3 fingers like the prophet let me in jannah. Then you look at the time of the prophet and none of the sahaba changed their ways for him but we are supposed too!!!! I bet the prophet is looking down and saying stop copying me and how i walk and talk and eat, listen my message which is for all time, the messenger isn't for all time, he dies and is gone. It's funny these salafist say they hate bid'ah what the hell do u call eating idolising the prophet like eating with 3 fingers, beard, etc. Truly this cult is a mess sxb so im not sure how u fell for it :drakelaugh:
 

DR OSMAN

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By the way, the people who think Islam changes others culture, thats more politics behind it!!!! did you see the arabs change their traditions or culture when the prophet was there? did you see them change their names? infact it's haram to change the name of your father. Have no fear somali nationalist(even though I am not one), I am secular merit based man(above identity jahiliyah), but to those somali nationalist out there go name your kids warsame and warsan and samale and so forth, there is absolutely no reason why you can't. And for god sakes you don't have to dress like the arabs either, stop the idol worshipping, your committing a huge shirk!!!

We as a people have been reduced to forgetting about looking at everything through a 'merit based' lenses and are busy focusing on who has a gus or siil or who is madow and cadan and who is muslim and non muslim and who dresses like an arab and who doesn't. I know why these things occurr bidar wanagsan it's nothing to be suprised about. It's cause the saudis have the wealth and influence right now, not to long ago somalis were sufis they were acting like ottomans ask sayidka lol why cause they had the power then. When the next muslim power rises up we are going to act like them and the cycle continues and we are going to remain in poverty because we are not merit based society, we to busy looking at the person gus or siil before hiring them for a job, so we just end up with absolute incompetent clowns who are not fit for the role but 'look' the role. :ileycry:
 

DR OSMAN

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I really do think only a few will enter in Jannah, it's not going to be packed house most people would've of collapsed to either 'idolising' prophets, statues, scientists, or anything that isn't the god and I think god will just say 'you clowns' you forgot the message and worshipped the messenger!!! I think jannah is full of diversity and not just Muslim but people who actually understood it's about god here and that's it. It's not owned by jesus, mohamed, moses, or any other prophet, it's god territory your in!!!

You really think god cares if you have a beard or a hijab? I mean seriously bro you must think about it. A pierce of garment on your head is a key criteria for muslim women!!! I mean you can wear it if you want but I highly doubt that our test in life is about who ate with 3 fingers, and had a beard, and a hijab all materialistic things it's similar to idol worship really except the idol is materials and copying people now!!!

I feel also a-lot will collapse with Money which has become probably the biggest idol of our day. An Idol in my few is your distracted and closer to something that isn't god, it's not just a statue it can take the shape and form of anything. I hope when I die I say 'I never believed in any of this fake dunya I only used it to keep alive so I can understand god better' and prepare my life justifications for everything I did in life.

I mean I can personally die a happy man then!!! I am not sure what these salafists are going to do but their taking a gamble with mercy thinking allah will just overlook everything cause they prayed 5 times a day. I am not a betting man but you pray to god for mercy everyday when a disaster happens and you don't see god answering do you? What makes you think he will answer that mercy call in Judgment day? I mean I am not going to focus on changing their beliefs, that is something personal and what everyone has to go through to find out for themselves. That's why we are here after-all. If they are confident in that, go ahead. But a wise man will go and die well prepared.

If you can't justify your life to yourself I am not sure how you are going to justify it to god in judgement day. That's where I honestly believe it start. Asking yourself would you accept what you did in life when it's all said and done, could you have done better and if the answer is YES, well welcome to hell because I can't see Allah opening the gates of heaven for you, it makes no sense to me. But if the answer is NO, you might have a chance because you really actually believed what you did was right, I am not sure how Allah is going to hold that against you? So the ignorant are probably a-lot safer then the rest of the people.

But this farce happening in Somalia is just a serious joke, this stuff is not religious it's all political. Just like the mahdi, sayid were ottoman stooges using religion for his wars, shabab are salafi stooges using religion for their war.
 

DR OSMAN

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Bidaar Wanagsan you made a good point to expand the madhabs, Islam is in dire need of diversity of thinking and views and interpretations. We must not just rely on medieval interpretations, yes we will study those too and where it makes sense or is suitable for our time we will accept it but we also want to add new interpretations to Islam, a rational and reason based interpretation that can appeal to the thinking type of Muslim of this era. Because that's all religion is, it's interpretations and they are changed and updated regularly to fit in with the society and times of a community. That's why they say islam is for all times, because the interpretation can change constantly. Where-as when the salafis say it, they mean their interpretation of islam is for all time but they put the 'quran' in that place but that's what they really mean!!!!

Infact these bold guys of the past even went a step further and created a whole new book(hadith), a complete add-on and it was accepted, so I am not sure why a range of reason based interpretations are not accepted today, it's not like we are adding anything to it like hadith has, we are just explaining the deen to fit in with our times!!! I don't disagree with hadiths though, there is a-lot of wisdom in it but it's not the holy grail, I say this because the way they classified hadith is based on medieval systems. We have better ways to classify hadith today that can be far more stronger then the method they used. For example compare it against the quran, comparing it against reason, checking the character of the person, checking if the prophet would do something and even if he did does it matter?

I mean did he eat 2 times a day, does it mean I have to eat two times a day? It needs a deep and thorough approach the hadith because the system they used is man made and man made systems always are improved. Huge revision time needed. I wish the somali govt elects a islamic councils and Me and Bidaar are elected to sift through it with the quran on side, reason and intellect on the other, our time n community into consideration, dividing it into two areas like all these hadiths are for all times and spiritual, all these other hadiths are just historical and for reading purpose. A huge revision.
 
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@DR OSMAN

I was not into Salafism all that much. I was an Ikhwani. The Salafis used to attack us. But they're both extremist groups. They lure in young people who don't know much about the deen and fill their heads with nonsense about the khilafa. When you're young you follow anybody with a long beard. Most people don't know a lot about Islamic theology or history so you pretty much tend to fall in with whatever your masjid is preaching. If they're Tablighis, you become a Tablighi, if they're Salafi you become Salafi, if Deobandi you become a Deobandi, if Barelvi you become a Barelvi. Most peeple are easily led. They will follow whatever the local sheikh says. That is why all masjids should be under government control. Any sheikh who preaches against secularism needs to be sacked and imprisoned. Saudi Arabia fired 3000 imams in the past few years for contradicting government policy. They use the masjid as a political weapon. We need to do the same.
 
@DR OSMAN

Most of the extremism in the Muslim community comes from hadiths. Whilst some hadiths are necessary for understanding Islam, many are fraudulent. Sahih Bukhari and Muslim are not divinely authored. Scholars like Irsrar Ahmed Khan have shown they contain hadiths that contradict the Quran, science, and basic logic. He wrote a book called Authenticating Hadiths: Redefining The Criteria. I recommend it.

Medieval theologians for the most part only looked at the isnad. They neglected to examine the matn, that is the content of the Hadiths, and to ask: does this make sense logically? Is it in harmony with the Quran? Is it scientifically defensible? For example Bukhari reports a hadith in which the Prophet is meant to have asked "Where does the sun go when it sets?" The companions replied they don't know; the prophet said "It goes to bow down at Allah's throne". This is unscientific because the sun does not set. It is a forgery which Bukhari repeated because he did not understand astronomy. There are loads of things like that which undermine people's iman. Hadith books need to be revised and stuff like this which contradict science, morality, and human rights needs to be thrown out.
 
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DR OSMAN

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Bidaar I honestly, do not believe you or any other Somali who ARE or WERE Salafi/ikhwani/tabliqi/ is going to hell for it, as long as you truly believed in it and didn't have ulterior motives. How can Allah send someone to hell for ignorance? it's just not logical at all!!! But once you understood it's not the right path and knew it wasn't and still preached it and had ulterior motives, I really resent your future because that is just down-right 'evil', those are the sort of wicked people who know the truth but conceal it for worldly gain.

Bidaar, I have seen the tabliqis and one even invited me to join them in a summer camp, god knows what they do there but the guy was no moderate but very radical in his views and jihad. I was young and naive but I never went, I always knew deep down even when I was young that religion is something between you and god not between you and a state or ummah. No Ummah will save us on that day, we stand for ourselves and our own life results. Even family won't be of use. I always knew these teachings and knew islam is an individual based faith and has nothing to do with 'caliphate' or anything. Imagine going to god and saying 'I dominated the world for you' I can just imagine god looking at you and saying 'you think I couldn't of done that myself'!!!!

You conquered the world for your own worldly GOALS and used god as a scapegoat, that's what they should teach about these people seeking domination of others, how is dominating someone else going to send you to heaven when it's clear the test is about YOU not someone ELSE!!! They think they can bribe god with look at how much land I have for you Allah, now let me in jannah!!!! It's a childish approach runti, MAY REASON PREVAIL!!!
 
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Bidaar I honestly, do not believe you or any other Somali who ARE or WERE Salafi/ikhwani/tabliqi/ is going to hell for it, as long as you truly believed in it and didn't have ulterior motives. How can Allah send someone to hell for ignorance? it's just not logical at all!!! But once you understood it's not the right path and knew it wasn't and still preached it and had ulterior motives, I really resent your future because that is just down-right 'evil', those are the sort of wicked people who know the truth but conceal it for worldly gain.

Bidaar, I have seen the tabliqis and one even invited me to join them in a summer camp, god knows what they do there but the guy was no moderate but very radical in his views and jihad. I was young and naive but I never went, I always knew deep down even when I was young that religion is something between you and god not between you and a state or ummah. No Ummah will save us on that day, we stand for ourselves and our own life results. Even family won't be of use. I always knew these teachings and knew islam is an individual based faith and has nothing to do with 'caliphate' or anything. Imagine going to god and saying 'I dominated the world for you' I can just imagine god looking at you and saying 'you think I couldn't of done that myself'!!!!

You conquered the world for your own worldly GOALS and used god as a scapegoat, that's what they should teach about these people seeking domination of others, how is dominating someone else going to send you to heaven when it's clear the test is about YOU not someone ELSE!!! They think they can bribe god with look at how much land I have for you Allah, now let me in jannah!!!! It's a childish approach runti, MAY REASON PREVAIL!!!
I'm glad you didn't go. Tablighis are fags.

The Quran says that Christians, Jews, and Sabeans will go to heaven too so Allah doesn't care for these little Muslim sects. Some people confuse non-Muslims with Kuffar. This is wrong. A kafir is someone who knows Islam is true, but rejects it. Most non-Muslims do not fall into this category.

Any truth seeker who worships God in whatever tradition he was raised and leads an upright life will not be punished by God. That is the rahma of Allah, but as for theocratic fascists who oppress Muslims in the name of Shariah law they will be twerking in Jahannam with Osama bin Laden. That kid @TekNiKo will be the most talented bootyclapper in there.
 

HuunoHunter

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I'm glad you didn't go. Tablighis are fags.

The Quran says that Christians, Jews, and Sabeans will go to heaven too so Allah doesn't care for these little Muslim sects. Some people confuse non-Muslims with Kuffar. This is wrong. A kafir is someone who knows Islam is true, but rejects it. Most non-Muslims do not fall into this category.

Any truth seeker who worships God in whatever tradition he was raised and leads an upright life will not be punished by God. That is the rahma of Allah, but as for theocratic fascists who oppress Muslims in the name of Shariah law they will be twerking in Jahannam with Osama bin Laden. That kid @TekNiKo will be the most talented bootyclapper in there.
What of the Agnostics who believe that their is a God who created them, but they have to many doubts in the prehistoric/modern day religions?
Doesn't Allah punish them in Hellfire for an eternity?
 

SirLancelLord

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Bidaar I honestly, do not believe you or any other Somali who ARE or WERE Salafi/ikhwani/tabliqi/ is going to hell for it, as long as you truly believed in it and didn't have ulterior motives. How can Allah send someone to hell for ignorance? it's just not logical at all!!! But once you understood it's not the right path and knew it wasn't and still preached it and had ulterior motives, I really resent your future because that is just down-right 'evil', those are the sort of wicked people who know the truth but conceal it for worldly gain.

Bidaar, I have seen the tabliqis and one even invited me to join them in a summer camp, god knows what they do there but the guy was no moderate but very radical in his views and jihad. I was young and naive but I never went, I always knew deep down even when I was young that religion is something between you and god not between you and a state or ummah. No Ummah will save us on that day, we stand for ourselves and our own life results. Even family won't be of use. I always knew these teachings and knew islam is an individual based faith and has nothing to do with 'caliphate' or anything. Imagine going to god and saying 'I dominated the world for you' I can just imagine god looking at you and saying 'you think I couldn't of done that myself'!!!!

You conquered the world for your own worldly GOALS and used god as a scapegoat, that's what they should teach about these people seeking domination of others, how is dominating someone else going to send you to heaven when it's clear the test is about YOU not someone ELSE!!! They think they can bribe god with look at how much land I have for you Allah, now let me in jannah!!!! It's a childish approach runti, MAY REASON PREVAIL!!!
Go check:
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-2017

Every year the create an index based on a comprehensive study to determine how free s country is

Freedom House is an independent watchdog organization dedicated to the expansion of freedom and democracy around the world.

We analyze the challenges to freedom, advocate for greater political rights and civil liberties, and support frontline activists to defend human rights and promote democratic change. Founded in 1941, Freedom House was the first American organization to champion the advancement of freedom globally.
 
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