Somali Scholar - Uthman bin Ali Zayla'i (1342 A.D)

[Barkhadle1520]

Actually, Somali merchants had their own trading quarters in Mocha and sold coffee directly to European customers not just through Arab middlemen. There were also prominent Somali merchants represented in Istanbul, as shown in that letter someone posted before

Give it up its well known who spread coffee throughout the world, somalis only cared to sell it to yemenis and thats it, no amount of historical revisionism will change that this history is very well documented

 

[Barkhadle1520]

probably looting camels and women lool

Nah thats from 1600-1900 before that we were civilized

 

[NidarNidar]

Nah thats from 1600-1900 before that we were civilized

Probably still looting each other, it built good grit, which is why we never got swarmed by the Habesha, even though they outnumbered us, we were independent, but still have a collective unity unified state.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Probably still looting each other, it built good grit, which is why we never got swarmed by the Habesha, even though they outnumbered us, we were independent, but still have a collective unity unified state.

If you mean before 1600s we were doing cawaan shit then youre ignorant but all of this will be explained by someone else soon inshallah

 

[Idilinaa]

Give it up its well known who spread coffee throughout the world, somalis only cared to sell it to yemenis and thats it, no amount of historical revisionism will change that this history is very well documented

That’s simply not true, and calling it "revisionism" doesn't make it less factual. Somalis were active agents in the early coffee trade not just selling to Yemenis, but establishing their own trading quarter in Mocha, alongside European and Jewish merchants, where they sold coffee directly.

Here’s a map from 1764 clearly showing the Somali quarter outside Mocha's walls:

Checking Redirect - Altea Gallery

alteagallery.com

Outside the walls are the European, Jewish and Somali quarters. Somali merchants brought vast amounts of coffee beans across the Red Sea from Ethiopia to sell.

This is backed up by contemporary accounts as well. Take this British observer’s report from the early 19th century:

The Samaulies, who inhabit the whole coast from Gardafui to the Straits [Bab-el-Mandeb], and through whose territories the whole produce of the interior of Africa must consequently reach Arabia, have been represented by Mr. Bruce, and many others, as a savage race, with whom it would be dangerous to have connection. I think that this is an unjust accusation, and is sufficiently disproved by the extent of their inland trade, their great fairs, and their large exports in their own vessels. A great number of them live close to Mocha, and are a peaceful inoffensive race."

Coffee passed through Yemen not because Somalis lacked interest in wider trade, but because Yemen was geographically the key transit point. European buyers British, Turkish, Dutch, etc. purchased coffee directly from Somali, Arab, and Jewish merchants in Mocha, not through some one-way Somali to Yemeni pipeline.

Also, Somalis traded coffee across the wider Horn, East African coast, and inland regions as well. Limiting their role to “just selling to Yemenis” is not only inaccurate, it ignores the broader trade system they were deeply embedded in.

 

[NidarNidar]

If you mean before 1600s we were doing cawaan shit then youre ignorant but all of this will be explained by someone else soon inshallah

It's mentioned in the Futah that Habr Maqdi looted Gerri Kombe towns or villages, and the Iman had to take revenge, he chased them fafaan to somewhere near the coast towards Zeila, burnt a number of their villages and towns, this sort of stuff happened but there were consequences, he later recruited them into his army, this could of been just another splitter group amongst them.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

That’s simply not true, and calling it "revisionism" doesn't make it less factual. Somalis were active agents in the early coffee trade not just selling to Yemenis, but establishing their own trading quarter in Mocha, alongside European and Jewish merchants, where they sold coffee directly.

Here’s a map from 1764 clearly showing the Somali quarter outside Mocha's walls:
View attachment 367842

Checking Redirect - Altea Gallery

alteagallery.com

This is backed up by contemporary accounts as well. Take this British observer’s report from the early 19th century:


Coffee passed through Yemen not because Somalis lacked interest in wider trade, but because Yemen was geographically the key transit point. European buyers British, Turkish, Dutch, etc. purchased coffee directly from Somali, Arab, and Jewish merchants in Mocha, not through some one-way Somali to Yemeni pipeline.

Also, Somalis traded coffee across the wider Horn, East African coast, and inland regions as well. Limiting their role to “just selling to Yemenis” is not only inaccurate, it ignores the broader trade system they were deeply embedded in.

Ffs thats exactly what im saying not everything needs to be an argument

 

[Barkhadle1520]

It's mentioned in the Futah that Habr Maqdi looted Gerri Kombe towns or villages, and the Iman had to take revenge, he chased them fafaan to somewhere near the coast towards Zeila, burnt a number of their villages and towns, this sort of stuff happened but there were consequences, he later recruited them into his army, this could of been just another splitter group amongst them.

hmm

 

[Idilinaa]

Probably still looting each other, it built good grit, which is why we never got swarmed by the Habesha, even though they outnumbered us, we were independent, but still have a collective unity unified state.

Raids did happen you even see them mentioned in Futuh but they were typically limited to brief periods of conflict and weren’t the norm. If constant looting was common, you wouldn’t see the kind of large-scale, organized trade that existed between the interior and the coast, nor the export volumes of inland goods that required stability and protection.

Caravans were taxed and protected, and that level of structure doesn’t happen in a lawless, chaotic environment. It's the same today: conflict gets attention, but trade and cooperation are what underpin the system most of the time

 

[NidarNidar]

Raids did happen you even see them mentioned in Futuh al-Habasha but they were typically limited to brief periods of conflict and weren’t the norm. If constant looting was common, you wouldn’t see the kind of large-scale, organized trade that existed between the interior and the coast, nor the export volumes of inland goods that required stability and protection.

Caravans were taxed and protected, and that level of structure doesn’t happen in a lawless, chaotic environment. It's the same today: conflict gets attention, but trade and cooperation are what underpin the system most of the time

True, most of the towns in Awdal didn't have walls, but were strategically positioned near hills, and the farms would be near valleys.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Not always, some take the nisbah, like how @Arabsiyawi made the connection with the Arab clan that split off from Dir 2,900-2,300 ago. We eventually meet up with them in Zeila, and they inherited the same claim of Aqil ibn Abi Talib, which is why they are considered Quraish today.

Not only that. We have clear evidence that the nisbas "Zayla'i" "Jabarti" or even "Habashi" were never tribal/ethnic. Broad regional names given to people who have ties to that land through X, Y or Z.
Lol, we literally had a bunch of people during the lifetimes of our grandparents who were called Zaylacawi and were known not to be ethnic Somalis.

What I find jarring here, is that we discussed this many times and a lot of people dabbled in and seem to agree, but we still have people making threads and asserting claims like that. No evidence whatsoever, just hard larp atp... but I am somehow the problematic one when I ask for sources kkkkk

 

[Midas]

Not only that. We have clear evidence that the nisbas "Zayla'i" "Jabarti" or even "Habashi" were never tribal/ethnic. Broad regional names given to people who have ties to that land through X, Y or Z.
Lol, we literally had a bunch of people during the lifetimes of our grandparents who were called Zaylacawi and were known not to be ethnic Somalis.

What I find jarring here, is that we discussed this many times and a lot of people dabbled in and seem to agree, but we still have people making threads and asserting claims like that. No evidence whatsoever, just hard larp atp... but I am somehow the problematic one when I ask for sources kkkkk

Im sorry I don't take this fake nuanc b.s seriously. Your the same guy's who for thr longest tried to downplay and deny that these were somali nisbas in the first place.

You guys are the equivalent of somebody who in a couple hundred years would find references to people with hargeisa nisba and then claim because there are oromo and Arabs living in hargesia you cant assume schollars with the Hargeisa nisba are somali.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Im sorry I don't take this fake nuanc b.s seriously. Your the same guy's who for thr longest tried to downplay and deny that these were somali nisbas in the first place.

You guys are the equivalent of somebody who in a couple hundred years would find references to people with hargeisa nisba and then claim because there are oromo amd Arabs living in hargesia you cant assume schollars with the Hargeisa nisba are somali.

Less ad-hominems, more trying to back your claims.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Not only that. We have clear evidence that the nisbas "Zayla'i" "Jabarti" or even "Habashi" were never tribal/ethnic. Broad regional names given to people who have ties to that land through X, Y or Z.
Lol, we literally had a bunch of people during the lifetimes of our grandparents who were called Zaylacawi and were known not to be ethnic Somalis.

What I find jarring here, is that we discussed this many times and a lot of people dabbled in and seem to agree, but we still have people making threads and asserting claims like that. No evidence whatsoever, just hard larp atp... but I am somehow the problematic one when I ask for sources kkkkk

Its simple really, Saylici = somali, jabarti = someone from the bilad/country of jabart

Habeshi = Habesha or someone from the region of abyssinia

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Its simple really, Saylici = somali, jabarti = someone from the bilad/country of jabart

Habeshi = Habesha or someone from the region of abyssinia

I give up

 

[Midas]

Less ad-hominems, more trying to back your claims.

What backing would my claim need. People have posted dozens of times on here about how this nisba is somali.

The idea that we somehow need to give to proof that scholars with a nisba from a somali city are actually somali and not arab/ethiosemetic. Is an insane position to hold and goes beyond mere skepticism.

 

[Idilinaa]

Not only that. We have clear evidence that the nisbas "Zayla'i" "Jabarti" or even "Habashi" were never tribal/ethnic. Broad regional names given to people who have ties to that land through X, Y or Z.
Lol, we literally had a bunch of people during the lifetimes of our grandparents who were called Zaylacawi and were known not to be ethnic Somalis.

What I find jarring here, is that we discussed this many times and a lot of people dabbled in and seem to agree, but we still have people making threads and asserting claims like that. No evidence whatsoever, just hard larp atp... but I am somehow the problematic one when I ask for sources kkkkk

Zayla'i was an ethno-cultural signifier for Somalis in general. It's frequently used to describe a race of people in medieval arabic sources.

There is an entire thread that goes into it's usage in sources and they even gave description of the language which they called ''Zayla'i Language'' with Somali words mentioned:


Then there is also direct explanation by the 13th century scholar Fakr ad-Din Al-Zayla who describe it as a country connected to the red sea and indian ocean(Which is basically Somalia) and also describe it as a distinct people.

He says:
''It's the country opposite of Yemen on the upper reaches of the red sea and what is connected to it from the Indian Ocean, its a country called in Egypt and Levant as the Land of Zayla'' Zayla'i is not a only a single town, or an island it's a name that prevailed."

''It's an extremely hot land, and the colour of it's people are closer to yellowish-brown and their hair is not as peppery as that of the people of Mali. Their intelligence is sharper than others and their nature is more intelligent"

 

[Guure⁸]

Zayla'i was an ethno-cultural label for Somalis in general. It's frequently used to describe a race of people in medieval arabic sources.

There is an entire thread that goes into it's usage in sources and they even gave description of the language which they called ''Zayla'i Language'' with Somali words mentioned:


Then there is also direct explanation by the 13th century scholar Fakr ad-Din Al-Zayla who describe them as a country connected to the red sea and indian ocean(Which is basically Somalia) and as a people.

He says:
''It's the country opposite of Yemen on the upper reaches of the red sea and what is connected to it from the Indian Ocean, its a country called in Egypt and Levant as the Land of Zayla'' Zayla'i is not a only a single town, or an island it's a name that prevailed."

''It's an extremely hot land, and the colour of it's people are closer to yellowish-brown and their hair is not as peppery as as that of the people of Mali. Their intelligence is sharper than others and their nature is more intelligent"

View attachment 367844

"معجم البلدان" mentions some weird culture we used to do I'm surprised walahi

 

[Barkhadle1520]

I give up

Nah go on explain

 

[Barkhadle1520]

"معجم البلدان" mentions some weird culture we used to do I'm surprised walahi

delete