Sofala island:somali colony

[esmailxxx]

“One of the oldest harbours documented in Southern Africa, medieval Sofala was erected on the edge of a wide estuary formed by the Buzi River (called Rio de Sofala in older maps). The Somali merchants from Mogadishu, the capital of the Ajuran Empire, established a colony in Mozambique to extract gold from the mines in Sofala.[2]”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofala

 

[esmailxxx]

 

[Factz]

They were Somali merchants from Mogadishu that established a colony in Sofala somewhere between 10th to 12th century. I don't think Ajuran existed back then but who knows if the colonization took place much later.

Source: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0xzLttlApVwC&pg=PT11&dq=Somali+merchants+from+Mogadishu+establish+a+colony&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig3fqr4ODbAhWiI8AKHfpNCYkQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=Somali merchants from Mogadishu establish a colony&f=false

 

[ColloquiallyFluent]

Thanks for the small dose of knowledge.

 

[esmailxxx]

Thanks for the small dose of knowledge.

Something for all of us to be proud about

 

[Factz]

Thanks for the small dose of knowledge.

Something for all of us to be proud about

This is not the only colony Somalis established. Do you the Maldive islands? Apperently, when Ibn Battuta visited the Maldive islands, he met the ruler of the islands called Abd al-Aziz of Mogadishu and he was a Somali ruler from Mogadishu. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Aziz_of_Mogadishu

 

[esmailxxx]

There was somali colonies/settlements in egypt and india too,right?

 

[Factz]

There was somali colonies/settlements in egypt and india too,right?

Well, not colonies but settlements. Somalis are traditionally seafaring people so it's not a surprising. The red dots you see is their settlements and the blue and purple dots are their trading partners where they send their ships to foreign ports to sell their goods.

 

[ColloquiallyFluent]

Well, not colonies but settlements. Somalis are traditionally seafaring people so it's not a surprising. The red dots you see is their settlements and the blue and purple dots are their trading partners where they send their ships to foreign ports to sell their goods.

huh.
So were know seapeople.
good to know

 

[esmailxxx]

huh.
So were know seapeople.
good to know

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_history_of_Somalia

 

[Grant]

“One of the oldest harbours documented in Southern Africa, medieval Sofala was erected on the edge of a wide estuary formed by the Buzi River (called Rio de Sofala in older maps). The Somali merchants from Mogadishu, the capital of the Ajuran Empire, established a colony in Mozambique to extract gold from the mines in Sofala.[2]”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofala

Wiki is all screwed up. There were no mines in Sofala. The gold came from the Great Zimbabwe gold fields. Wiki conflates Somali and Shirazi. The Somali clans don't even form until the 12th-13th centuries. The Fakhrudin Mosque is 13th century. The first mention of the Somali ethnicity is 15th century. The Ajuraan come to power in the middle of the 16th and never rule from Mog. The Shirazis settle the Banadir in the 10th-11th centuries and move south from there to form the Swahili culture. In 956 Ali bin Selimani the Persian becomes first Sultan of Kilwa, which Sultanate seizes control of Sofala and the Great Zimbabwe gold fields in 1180.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/SwahiliCoast_StudentsWorksheets.pdf

" Then came Sultan Ali bin Selimani the Persian. He came with his ships, and brought his goods and his children. One child was called Fatima. We do not know the names of the other children. They disembarked at Kilwa, that is to say, they went to the headman of the country, the Elder Mrimba, and asked for a place in which to trade goods and beads. Sultan Ali married Mrimba’s daughter. He lived on good terms with the people. Freeman-Grenville 1962: 221"

https://www.revolvy.com/topic/Shirazi people&item_type=topic

"There are two main theories about the origins of the Shirazi people. One thesis based on oral tradition states that immigrants from the Shirazregion in southwestern Iran directly settled various mainland ports and islands on the eastern Africa seaboard beginning in the tenth century, in an area between Mogadishu, Somalia in the north and Sofala in the south.[9][10] According to Irving Kaplan, prior to the 7th century, the coastal areas frequented by the Persian migrants were inhabited by non-NegroidAfricans. By the time of the Persian settlement in the area, these earlier occupants had been displaced by incoming Bantu and Niloticpopulations.[11] More people from different parts of the Persian Gulf also continued to migrate to the Swahili coast over several centuries thereafter, and these formed the modern Shirazi.[12]

The second theory on Shirazi origins posits that they came from Persia, but first settled on the Somalia littoral near Mogadishu.[9] In the twelfth century, as the gold trade with the distant entrepot of Sofala on the Mozambique seaboard grew, the settlers are then said to moved southwards to various coastal towns in Kenya, Tanzania, northern Mozambique and the Indian Ocean islands. By 1200 AD, they had established local sultanates and mercantile networks on the islands of Kilwa, Mafia and Comoros along the Swahili coast, and in northwestern Madagascar.[13][3][14][15][16]

Some academics have questioned the authenticity of the primarily Persian origin claim.[17][18] They point to the relative rarity of Persian customs and speech, lack of documentary evidence of Shia Islam in the Muslim literature on the Swahili Coast, and instead a historic abundance of Sunni Arab-related evidence.[19] These academics state that the evidence confirms mass migration to the African coast over the centuries from the Persian Gulf and Arabia, but Persian Gulf is much more than a Persian coast.[19] There are also several different versions of stories about the settlement of Shirazi along the Swahili Coast.[20] According to Ari Nave and Irving Kaplan, the Shirazi ethnic group is likely the result of "a combined African, Arab and Persian" elements.[2][11] Jack Drake indicates that through these intermarriages between Persian and Arab male settlers and local Bantu women, the offspring learned Persian and Arab terms related to culture, navigation merchandise, war, artisanal tools, products and travel, as well as Bantu agricultural and daily vocabulary.[21]"

This is history. There is nothing anti-Somali about it.

 

[Factz]

Wiki is all screwed up. There were no mines in Sofala. The gold came from the Great Zimbabwe gold fields. Wiki conflates Somali and Shirazi. The Somali clans don't even form until the 12th-13th centuries. The Fakhrudin Mosque is 13th century. The first mention of the Somali ethnicity is 15th century. The Ajuraan come to power in the middle of the 16th and never rule from Mog. The Shirazis settle the Banadir in the 10th-11th centuries and move south from there to form the Swahili culture. In 956 Ali bin Selimani the Persian becomes first Sultan of Kilwa, which Sultanate seizes control of Sofala and the Great Zimbabwe gold fields in 1180.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/SwahiliCoast_StudentsWorksheets.pdf

" Then came Sultan Ali bin Selimani the Persian. He came with his ships, and brought his goods and his children. One child was called Fatima. We do not know the names of the other children. They disembarked at Kilwa, that is to say, they went to the headman of the country, the Elder Mrimba, and asked for a place in which to trade goods and beads. Sultan Ali married Mrimba’s daughter. He lived on good terms with the people. Freeman-Grenville 1962: 221"

https://www.revolvy.com/topic/Shirazi people&item_type=topic

"There are two main theories about the origins of the Shirazi people. One thesis based on oral tradition states that immigrants from the Shirazregion in southwestern Iran directly settled various mainland ports and islands on the eastern Africa seaboard beginning in the tenth century, in an area between Mogadishu, Somalia in the north and Sofala in the south.[9][10] According to Irving Kaplan, prior to the 7th century, the coastal areas frequented by the Persian migrants were inhabited by non-NegroidAfricans. By the time of the Persian settlement in the area, these earlier occupants had been displaced by incoming Bantu and Niloticpopulations.[11] More people from different parts of the Persian Gulf also continued to migrate to the Swahili coast over several centuries thereafter, and these formed the modern Shirazi.[12]

The second theory on Shirazi origins posits that they came from Persia, but first settled on the Somalia littoral near Mogadishu.[9] In the twelfth century, as the gold trade with the distant entrepot of Sofala on the Mozambique seaboard grew, the settlers are then said to moved southwards to various coastal towns in Kenya, Tanzania, northern Mozambique and the Indian Ocean islands. By 1200 AD, they had established local sultanates and mercantile networks on the islands of Kilwa, Mafia and Comoros along the Swahili coast, and in northwestern Madagascar.[13][3][14][15][16]

Some academics have questioned the authenticity of the primarily Persian origin claim.[17][18] They point to the relative rarity of Persian customs and speech, lack of documentary evidence of Shia Islam in the Muslim literature on the Swahili Coast, and instead a historic abundance of Sunni Arab-related evidence.[19] These academics state that the evidence confirms mass migration to the African coast over the centuries from the Persian Gulf and Arabia, but Persian Gulf is much more than a Persian coast.[19] There are also several different versions of stories about the settlement of Shirazi along the Swahili Coast.[20] According to Ari Nave and Irving Kaplan, the Shirazi ethnic group is likely the result of "a combined African, Arab and Persian" elements.[2][11] Jack Drake indicates that through these intermarriages between Persian and Arab male settlers and local Bantu women, the offspring learned Persian and Arab terms related to culture, navigation merchandise, war, artisanal tools, products and travel, as well as Bantu agricultural and daily vocabulary.[21]"

This is history. There is nothing anti-Somali about it.

Stop derailing this positive thread with your revolvy nonsense and blogs. Nothing you mentioned here debunks Somali merchants establishing a colony in Sofala. You're just full of shit trying to discredit Somali history. Before you spew lies, back it up like me.

No Somali clans mentioned in the 13th century? Really?

Dawaro Sultanate was established in the 10th century. It was established by the Dawaro sub-clan of Jarso. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Dawaro

Tunni clan established a Sultanate in Qoriyoley in the 9th century.

Dir clan established the early Adal Kingdom in the (9th century to the 13th century) which Al-Yaqubi mentioned about. He also called Somalis "Somaal".

Do I have to go on how many Somali clans were mentioned even in the ancient times? Seriously, you're a joke.

The Ajuran Empire was established in the 13th century and they ruled the southern Somali coast including Mogadishu. Remember when you denied Ajuran maritime history? Well here is the source where it says Ajuran commenced control over its coastal cities.

You tried to bring up Ali ibn al-Hassan Shirazi, really?

"The story of Kilwa begins around 960-1000 AD.[3] According to legend, Ali ibn al-Hassan Shirazi was one of seven sons of a ruler of Shiraz, Persia, his mother an Abyssinian slave. Upon his father's death, Ali was driven out of his inheritance by his brothers.[4] Setting sail out of Hormuz, Ali ibn al-Hassan, his household and a small group of followers first made their way to Mogadishu, the main commercial city of the East African coast. However, Ali failed to get along with the city's Somali elite and he was soon driven out of that city as well."

The Shirazi people only ruled the Swahili coast (Kilwa Sultanate) and they didn't get along with the Somali city-states. In fact, the Somalis had richer coastal cities and were more powerful.


Yes, Sofala did have gold mines, even the Mozambique government is digging gold mines in Sofala you liar. Here: http://www.elmed-rostov.ru/Projects/Pungwe CD/Reports/eng/Others/Trainee Report - Gold Mining.pdf

The fact the matter is the authentic source says Somalis from Mogadishu established a colony in Sofala and no historians dispute that.

Nobody cares about what a Somali hater with his made up opinion says?

Link: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0xzLttlApVwC&pg=PT11&dq=Somali+merchants+from+Mogadishu+establish+a+colony&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig3fqr4ODbAhWiI8AKHfpNCYkQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=Somali merchants from Mogadishu establish a colony&f=false

 

[Grant]

Stop derailing this positive thread with your revolvy nonsense and blogs. Nothing you mentioned here debunks Somali merchants establishing a colony in Sofala. You're just full of shit trying to discredit Somali history. Before you spew lies, back it up like me.

No Somali clans mentioned in the 13th century? Really?

Dawaro Sultanate was established in the 10th century. It was established by the Dawaro sub-clan of Jarso. Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Dawaro

Tunni clan established a Sultanate in Qoriyoley in the 9th century.

Dir clan established the early Adal Kingdom in the (9th century to the 13th century) which Al-Yaqubi mentioned about. He also called Somalis "Somaal".

Do I have to go on how many Somali clans were mentioned even in the ancient times? Seriously, you're a joke.

The Ajuran Empire was established in the 13th century and they ruled the southern Somali coast including Mogadishu. Remember when you denied Ajuran maritime history? Well here is the source where it says Ajuran commenced control over its coast.

You tried to bring up Ali ibn al-Hassan Shirazi, really?

"The story of Kilwa begins around 960-1000 AD.[3] According to legend, Ali ibn al-Hassan Shirazi was one of seven sons of a ruler of Shiraz, Persia, his mother an Abyssinian slave. Upon his father's death, Ali was driven out of his inheritance by his brothers.[4] Setting sail out of Hormuz, Ali ibn al-Hassan, his household and a small group of followers first made their way to Mogadishu, the main commercial city of the East African coast. However, Ali failed to get along with the city's Somali elite and he was soon driven out of that city as well."


Yes, Sofala did have gold mines, even the Portuguese took advantage of it's gold mines you liar. Here: http://zimfieldguide.com/manicaland/search-fabled-gold-mines-monomotapa-mutapa

The fact the matter is the authentic source says Somalis from Mogadishu established a colony in Sofala and no historians dispute that.

Nobody cares about what a Somali hater with his made up opinion says?

Link: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0xzLttlApVwC&pg=PT11&dq=Somali+merchants+from+Mogadishu+establish+a+colony&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig3fqr4ODbAhWiI8AKHfpNCYkQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=Somali merchants from Mogadishu establish a colony&f=false

Stop conflating. Your link: Adal was established in 1403. Sofala is a small island at the mouth of the Buzi river. There are no mines on it. The traders came from Somalia, but they were Shirazi.

You did not complete your quote.

"The story of Kilwa begins around 960-1000 AD.[3] According to legend, Ali ibn al-Hassan Shirazi was one of seven sons of a ruler of Shiraz, Persia, his mother an Abyssinian slave. Upon his father's death, Ali was driven out of his inheritance by his brothers.[4] Setting sail out of Hormuz, Ali ibn al-Hassan, his household and a small group of followers first made their way to Mogadishu, the main commercial city of the East African coast. However, Ali failed to get along with the city's Somali elite and he was soon driven out of that city as well.

Steering down the African coast, Ali is said to have purchased the island of Kilwa from the local Bantu inhabitants. According to one chronicle (Strong, 1895), Kilwa was originally owned by a mainland Bantu king 'Almuli' and connected by a small land bridge to the mainland that appeared in low tide. The king agreed to sell it to Ali ibn al-Hassan for as much colored cloth as could cover the circumference of the island. But when the king later changed his mind, and tried to take it back, the Persians had dug up the land bridge, and Kilwa was now an island.

Rather than being a literal retelling of events, this legendary history serves to legitimize the dynasty through ties to Islam. According to Horton and Middleman, "the descent from a noble Islamic family and an Abyssinian (Ethiopian) slave 'explains' why the rulers were both black but also with royal Muslim descent; the giving of cloth to the ruler made him 'civilized' and so his daughter became marriageable."

Note the time period of Ali's visit to Mog. Ethnic Somalis weren't even allowed in the city after dark until the Hiraab took it from the Yemeni Muzzaffars in about 1624.

 

[Factz]

Stop conflating. Your link: Adal was established in 1403. Sofala is a small island at the mouth of the Buzi river. There are no mines on it. The traders came from Somalia, but they were Shirazi.

You did not complete your quote.

"The story of Kilwa begins around 960-1000 AD.[3] According to legend, Ali ibn al-Hassan Shirazi was one of seven sons of a ruler of Shiraz, Persia, his mother an Abyssinian slave. Upon his father's death, Ali was driven out of his inheritance by his brothers.[4] Setting sail out of Hormuz, Ali ibn al-Hassan, his household and a small group of followers first made their way to Mogadishu, the main commercial city of the East African coast. However, Ali failed to get along with the city's Somali elite and he was soon driven out of that city as well.

Steering down the African coast, Ali is said to have purchased the island of Kilwa from the local Bantu inhabitants. According to one chronicle (Strong, 1895), Kilwa was originally owned by a mainland Bantu king 'Almuli' and connected by a small land bridge to the mainland that appeared in low tide. The king agreed to sell it to Ali ibn al-Hassan for as much colored cloth as could cover the circumference of the island. But when the king later changed his mind, and tried to take it back, the Persians had dug up the land bridge, and Kilwa was now an island.

Rather than being a literal retelling of events, this legendary history serves to legitimize the dynasty through ties to Islam. According to Horton and Middleman, "the descent from a noble Islamic family and an Abyssinian (Ethiopian) slave 'explains' why the rulers were both black but also with royal Muslim descent; the giving of cloth to the ruler made him 'civilized' and so his daughter became marriageable."

Note the time period of Ali's visit to Mog. Ethnic Somalis weren't even allowed in the city after dark until the Hiraab took it from the Yemeni Muzzaffars in about 1624.

Why do you always contradict yourself? Show me any source saying they were Shirazi. I showed you the source and link stating they were Somali merchants from Mogadishu establishing a colony in Sofala. Yes, Sofala does have gold mines. Did you not read my source? The Mozambique government is digging gold mines in Sofala. Here: http://www.elmed-rostov.ru/Projects/Pungwe CD/Reports/eng/Others/Trainee Report - Gold Mining.pdf

There was no need to finish the quote as it was talking about Kilwa but it says the Somali elites kicked out the Shirazi ruler from Mogadishu meaning Mogadishu was never settled by Shirazi and none of your sources ever state that. Heck, the Mogadishu Sultanate was even more powerful than Kilwa Sultanate.

Mogadishu was always a Somali city since the ancient times when Mogadishu was known as Sarapion by the ancient Greeks and Romans and they were inhabited by Barbara people the ancestors of modern day Somalis.

I mean a 12th century historian called Yaqut al-Hamawi stated that Mogadishu was inhabited by Swarthly Berbers who are ancestors of Somali people today. What do you think of this? Read the source from below.

For example Ibn Battuta met the Somali ruler of Mogadishu from Berbera and he was dark skin who spoke both language fluently like Arabic and his native language Somali.

In fact, Ibn Battuta visisted Zeila and Mogadishu. Here is everything Ibn Battuta wrote about Mogadishu and Zeila in the 13th century. Where does in day that there were more West asians than Somalis? He said that from Zeila to Mogadishu was Somali lands.

Link: http://www.classzone.com/books/wh_05_shared/pdf/WHS05_015_424_PS.pdf

I mean here is the source where it states Mogadishu, Zeila, Berbera, Merca, Berbera and other coastal Somali cities were predominantly inhabited by Somalis.

Link: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...cAhUKKMAKHbGtCUQQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I mean the Ajuran clan established settlements in Mogadishu and the Muzzaffar dynasty themselves were Ajuran from the same bloody stock family. Nothing "Yemeni" about them.

I think I'm done debunking your lies about the Somali history. Nice try troll.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

There is no prove Shirazi formed Swahili culture.

 

[Grant]

There is no prove Shirazi formed Swahili culture.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/180168...ad122f4cafa14535&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

"The earliest settlements discovered date from the eighth to ninth century A.D., most or all of which were probably pagan, but already trading with the Muslim world. By about 1100 there were several Muslim towns on the coast. This period is related to the Debuli of the traditions. The arrival of the 'Shirazi' is related to the appearance of coins of 'Ali bin al-Hasan, who is identified with the first ruler of the 'Shirazi' dynasty at Kilwa (about A.D. 1200); Mafia was of equal importance at this time. A marked cultural break in the latter part of the thirteenth or early fourteenth century is thought to be related to a change in dynasty at Kilwa, a fresh settlement of immigrants, and the gaining of control of Sofala and the gold trade. It is suggested that the Shirazi settlement consisted not of a migration of people from the Persian Gulf direct to Kilwa and other places, but rather a movement of settlers from the Banadir coast."

Why do you always contradict yourself? Show me any source saying they were Shirazi. I showed you the source and link stating they were Somali merchants from Mogadishu establishing a colony in Sofala. Yes, Sofala does have gold mines. Did you not read my source? The Mozambique government is digging gold mines in Sofala. Here: http://www.elmed-rostov.ru/Projects/Pungwe CD/Reports/eng/Others/Trainee Report - Gold Mining.pdf

There was no need to finish the quote as it was talking about Kilwa but it says the Somali elites kicked out the Shirazi ruler from Mogadishu meaning Mogadishu was never settled by Shirazi and none of your sources ever state that. Heck, the Mogadishu Sultanate was even more powerful than Kilwa Sultanate.

Mogadishu was always a Somali city since the ancient times when Mogadishu was known as Sarapion by the ancient Greeks and Romans and they were inhabited by Barbara people the ancestors of modern day Somalis.

I mean a 12th century historian called Yaqut al-Hamawi stated that Mogadishu was inhabited by Swarthly Berbers who are ancestors of Somali people today. What do you think of this? Read the source from below.

For example Ibn Battuta met the Somali ruler of Mogadishu from Berbera and he was dark skin who spoke both language fluently like Arabic and his native language Somali.

In fact, Ibn Battuta visisted Zeila and Mogadishu. Here is everything Ibn Battuta wrote about Mogadishu and Zeila in the 13th century. Where does in day that there were more West asians than Somalis? He said that from Zeila to Mogadishu was Somali lands.

Link: http://www.classzone.com/books/wh_05_shared/pdf/WHS05_015_424_PS.pdf

I mean here is the source where it states Mogadishu, Zeila, Berbera, Merca, Berbera and other coastal Somali cities were predominantly inhabited by Somalis.

Link: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...cAhUKKMAKHbGtCUQQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I mean the Ajuran clan established settlements in Mogadishu and the Muzzaffar dynasty themselves were Ajuran from the same bloody stock family. Nothing "Yemeni" about them.

I think I'm done debunking your lies about the Somali history. Nice try troll.

Please read your own quote: "Many Muslim merchants of Arab, Persian and probably Indian origin lived in these towns." The locals were Somalis by the 13th century, but they were not said to have lived in the towns.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sofala is a small island at the mouth of the Buzi river. It is not the Pungwe river basin your link references. The gold traded at Sofala came down the river from the Great Zimbabwe gold fields.

Wiki:Sofala

"The Buzi River connected Sofala to the internal market town of Manica, and from there to the gold fields of Great Zimbabwe. Sometime in the 10th century, Sofala emerged as a small trading post and was incorporated into the greater global monsoon complex. In the 1180s, Sultan Suleiman Hassan of Kilwa (in present-day Tanzania) seized control of Sofala, and brought Sofala into the Kilwa Sultanate and the Swahili cultural sphere.[3] The Swahili strengthened its trading capacity by having, among other things, rivergoing dhows ply the Buzi and Save rivers to ferry the gold extracted in the hinterlands to the coast.[4]"

https://www.britannica.com/place/Sofala

"Sofala’s harbour was the oldest harbour in southern Africa. It was visited by Arabs beginning in 915 in order to trade the gold from the hinterland. Persian Muslims settled there in 1020, and during the 14th and 15th centuries Sofala was an important southern outpost of the Islāmic sultanate of Kilwa. During this time the Arabs maintained trade relations with the Karanga state, which centred on the Zimbabwe monuments in the southeastern region of what is now the modern state of Zimbabwe."

 

[Factz]

https://www.jstor.org/stable/180168?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior:ebe58018cdf8c365ad122f4cafa14535&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

"The earliest settlements discovered date from the eighth to ninth century A.D., most or all of which were probably pagan, but already trading with the Muslim world. By about 1100 there were several Muslim towns on the coast. This period is related to the Debuli of the traditions. The arrival of the 'Shirazi' is related to the appearance of coins of 'Ali bin al-Hasan, who is identified with the first ruler of the 'Shirazi' dynasty at Kilwa (about A.D. 1200); Mafia was of equal importance at this time. A marked cultural break in the latter part of the thirteenth or early fourteenth century is thought to be related to a change in dynasty at Kilwa, a fresh settlement of immigrants, and the gaining of control of Sofala and the gold trade. It is suggested that the Shirazi settlement consisted not of a migration of people from the Persian Gulf direct to Kilwa and other places, but rather a movement of settlers from the Banadir coast."


Please read your own quote: "Many Muslim merchants of Arab, Persian and probably Indian origin lived in these towns." The locals were Somalis by the 13th century, but they were not said to have lived in the towns.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sofala is a small island at the mouth of the Buzi river. It is not the Pungwe river basin your link references. The gold traded at Sofala came down the river from the Great Zimbabwe gold fields.

Wiki:Sofala

"The Buzi River connected Sofala to the internal market town of Manica, and from there to the gold fields of Great Zimbabwe. Sometime in the 10th century, Sofala emerged as a small trading post and was incorporated into the greater global monsoon complex. In the 1180s, Sultan Suleiman Hassan of Kilwa (in present-day Tanzania) seized control of Sofala, and brought Sofala into the Kilwa Sultanate and the Swahili cultural sphere.[3] The Swahili strengthened its trading capacity by having, among other things, rivergoing dhows ply the Buzi and Save rivers to ferry the gold extracted in the hinterlands to the coast.[4]"

https://www.britannica.com/place/Sofala

"Sofala’s harbour was the oldest harbour in southern Africa. It was visited by Arabs beginning in 915 in order to trade the gold from the hinterland. Persian Muslims settled there in 1020, and during the 14th and 15th centuries Sofala was an important southern outpost of the Islāmic sultanate of Kilwa. During this time the Arabs maintained trade relations with the Karanga state, which centred on the Zimbabwe monuments in the southeastern region of what is now the modern state of Zimbabwe."

Do you have reading comprehension or are you intellectually dishonest @Grant? The source clearly says "The local people in the coastal areas and in the interior were predominantly Somali." Nobody here denies Arab, Persian and Indian merchants living on the coastal cities but the source literally says the coastal cities were predominantly inhabited by Somalis, read the source carefully. I will even line it up for you since you have reading comprehension.

But lets add some context to this, maybe we can get some insight on one of these coastal towns?

So all these coastal towns between Ras Hafun and Merca were all primarily inhabited by Somalis, the locals

"-and it consistutes a very important testimony to the early Somali occupancy of the whole region"


I mean if you read the link further. It tells you two major metropolis cities like Zeila and Mogadishu were predominantly Somalis. Here: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...cAhUKKMAKHbGtCUQQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I don't why you're showing me blogs of Sofala? You didn't disprove anything I stated. I proved to you that Sofala has gold mines. I showed you multiple sources that Mogadishu were always inhabited by Somalis. I showed you a source stating that Somalis established a colony in Sofala while you didn't show me any source to back up your lies. I think you are not capable debating with me so I suggest you don't reply again you troll.

At the end of the day, I showed you this piece of authentic source. Your lying opinions don't matter like I said, this historian is well respected so whatever he showed is backed up by medieval scripts and traditions.

 

[Grant]

Do you have reading comprehension or are you intellectually dishonest @Grant? The source clearly says "The local people in the coastal areas and in the interior were predominantly Somali." Nobody here denies Arab, Persian and Indian merchants living on the coastal cities but the source literally says the coastal cities were predominantly inhabited by Somalis, read the source carefully. I will even line it up for you since you have reading comprehension.

But lets add some context to this, maybe we can get some insight on one of these coastal towns?

So all these coastal towns between Ras Hafun and Merca were all primarily inhabited by Somalis, the locals

"-and it consistutes a very important testimony to the early Somali occupancy of the whole region"


I mean if you read the link further. It tells you two major metropolis cities like Zeila and Mogadishu were predominantly Somalis. Here: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...cAhUKKMAKHbGtCUQQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I don't why you're showing me blogs of Sofala? You didn't disprove anything I stated. I proved to you that Sofala has gold mines. I showed you multiple sources that Mogadishu were always inhabited by Somalis. I showed you a source stating that Somalis established a colony in Sofala while you didn't show me any source to back up your lies. I think you are not capable debating with me so I suggest you don't reply again you troll.

At the end of the day, I showed you this piece of authentic source. Your lying opinions don't matter like I said, this historian is well respected so whatever he showed is backed up by medieval scripts and traditions.

If you understood the links I gave you, or even just your own links, you would have enough to realize why this response is so laughable.

To conflate means to confuse and mix up. That's all you've got: conflation and confusion.

 

[Factz]

If you understood the links I gave you, or even just your own links, you would have enough to realize why this response is so laughable.

To conflate means to confuse and mix up. That's all you've got: conflation and confusion.

Not really, your own links didn't debunk anything I mentioned nor does it back your lying claim. At the end of the day, I gave you multiple sources to prove every claim I made and they are all true. You've lost this debate old man and you've proven yourself to be a user with reading comprehension and intellectually dishonest when it comes to Somali history. Don't confuse your bullshit with me and please, I advise you not to derail positive history threads about Somalis again. You're discrediting doesn't work around with intellectual Somalis who know their history.

Also, stick to the topic next time. I made no error here except you.

 

[Grant]

Not really, your own links didn't debunk anything I mentioned nor does it back your lying claim. At the end of the day, I gave you multiple sources to prove every claim I made and they are all true. You've lost this debate old man and you've proven yourself to be a user with reading comprehension and intellectually dishonest when it comes to Somali history. Don't confuse your bullshit with me and please, I advise you not to derail positive history threads about Somalis again. You're discrediting doesn't work around with intellectual Somalis who know their history.

Also, stick to the topic next time. I made no error here except you.

I will be back any time you get this confused. You may not read the links, but at least I will have tried, and the links will be available to those who will take advantage of them.