Siyad Barre The Most Divisive Man In Modern Somalia

[GemState]

Siyad raised Somalia's GDP per capita by $1.5 a year. $35 over 21 years.

we were commie larping crypto-fascists to get Russkie gibs for 3 decades. we didn't even translate Das Kapital into Somali until some American Somali hippe did in 2020

 

[anon2]

The truth needs to be told. "Somalia" doesn't exist anymore and it cannot move forward until we address this issues of the past. The ones who benefited and enjoyed a "Somalia" with free education, culture, peace, music etc are the ones who are causing havoc today. You had the chance to build on something great right after he left right after Siyaad left but you brought hell on earth and made all of us leave our homeland. You ran the noble "Somali" name through the mud. I am not blaming a particular group, I am blaming everyone

 

[anon2]

Siyad raised Somalia's GDP per capita by $1.5 a year. $35 over 21 years.

we were commie larping crypto-fascists to get Russkie gibs for 3 decades. we didn't even translate Das Kapital into Somali until some American Somali hippe did in 2020

Did you adjust for inflation? Also he didn't even read the communist manifesto, yes we were an Ethno-nationalist state, I will admit that, but it was a country where we did everything for the benefit of the "greater" Somali race. It is why we helped so many countries in Africa so they could take our side in conflicts but they didn't help us at all.

 

[bidenkulaha]

Siyad raised Somalia's GDP per capita by $1.5 a year. $35 over 21 years.

we were commie larping crypto-fascists to get Russkie gibs for 3 decades. we didn't even translate Das Kapital into Somali until some American Somali hippe did in 2020

It’s actually a joke how much he ran Somalia’s economy into the ground.

We had a better economy in the civil war. That should tell you everything

 

[anon2]

It’s actually a joke how much he ran Somalia’s economy into the ground.

View attachment 255311View attachment 255312

We had a better economy in the civil war. That should tell you everything

It well known GDP especially for an Africa country was and is unreliable. GDP Itself is not an accurate measurement of how well a country is doing. You aren't even adjusting for inflation.

Lesson summary: The limitations of GDP (article) | Khan Academy

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The Somali Republic from 76-88' was better than a lot of SSA countries. Anyways read this post I made comparing the current gov to todays gov. Todays gov is more dependent on aid than anything else. The entire GDP is aid.

@DR OSMAN a lot of statistics like GDP, esp. in Africa cannot be trusted for around the time period but in this case let's say it was true. Jon Snow and other Europeans who visited Somalia at the time can attest it was better off than other in SSA, which made them believe the Somali Gov at the time was defrauding the intl. community. I have a feeling the old government lied to Westerns inorder to get more aid, which is understandable. The current GDP is nothing to brag out. There is no manufacturing, there are no locally made products made. Majority of whatever is left that contributes to todays "Somali" economy is livestock export from PL. I will compare some things of todays "Somalia" with Siyaad's Somali Republic.

1. Somalia's current GDP is 79-80% foreign aid and remittance. Here is proof. Thank you @Thegoodshepherd for sharing this. Even with the cheap Chinese and western imports model, no is really making money. It's still all mostly foreign aid and remittance.
View attachment 253615
View attachment 253616
source: https://pubdocs.worldbank.org/en/752311492188170790/mpo-som.pdf

2. Somalia under Siyaad was able to avoid the largest famine and drought in the HoA - in 1974-76 MILLIONS of Ethiopians died while Somalis were evacuated and saved. There was also a mass effort to fight desertification that worked when even westerners said it was an impossible task

3. Somalia's economy was semi-planned and allowed for capitalism and trade. Land was never taken from people, livestock was not taken from people, it was the contrary, these things were subsides and encouraged to help increase production and led to more taxes being collected. Only things such as the country's resources were partly state-owned. According to this Somalia was 44 instead of 8, putting above Ethiopia, Nigeria and many others at the time. This system was not "socialism" or "communism" as people like to believe it. It was something close to the Chinese system of today, a mixed bag where a party rules by force but is efficient. It was align and conform or be destroyed. An iron fist rule that prioritize state's well being over others. This is one of the reasons I am not fond of his rule.

View attachment 253610

https://countrystudies.us/somalia/64.htm

4. Again here is another example of adjusting for inflation, we were way better off in port use and management. For example Siyaad gave a 10 year lease of partial use of a the port that was built in Berbera. The lease was for the American military, in which each year the paid a substantial amount of money. The port itself was sold for a measly $120 million for 30 years by Siylano and the FGS to the UAE in 2014, now for comparison, like I said we adjust for inflation, the port was making $100 million ALONE from American military use, if we add regular import/export/docking etc for businesses that would add another 40-50 million a year. After delcaring their ""independence"..why didn't Issaqs use the port in 30 years and have it contribute to their economy like Siyaad did??? They waited nearly 30 years to just sell it to the UAE for pennies. This is mind blowing
I talked about it in this thread and did the math in the post below ↓


5. POVERTY was lower than all other SSA African countries. This is what Siyaads game plan was, it was to turn Somalia into a food producing nation capable of feeding itself and becoming an export in food. It was initially working from my understanding.
View attachment 253609source: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/29136514.pdf

 

[GemState]

Did you adjust for inflation? Also he didn't even read the communist manifesto, yes we were an Ethno-nationalist state, I will admit that, but it was a country where we did everything for the benefit of the "greater" Somali race. It is why we helped so many countries in Africa so they could take our side in conflicts but they didn't help us at all.

View attachment 255308

That passage is pretty nuts honestly. Imagine basing your rule on scientific socialism but not even being well read on Socialism. This is the guy that was absolute ruler for 21 years. I honestly forget how retarded Africa is.

Stalin was a disaster but even Stalin read 500 pages each day and had a library of 25,000 books, he worked 24 hours a day. He slept in his day clothes. Even the most cynical historian estimates that he worked 100+ hours a week. How many hours a week do you think MSB worked? Did he have writings on his vision on the country?

That regime could have been more successful if it focused on hyper-nationalism, scapegoating minorities, and merging the government with the capitalist class for optimal efficiency (state guided capitalism).

 

[anon2]

That passage is pretty nuts honestly. Imagine basing your rule on scientific socialism but not even being well read on Socialism. This is the guy that was absolute ruler for 21 years. I honestly forget how retarded Africa is.

Stalin was a disaster but even Stalin read 500 pages each day and had a library of 25,000 books, he worked 24 hours a day. He slept in his day clothes. Even the most cynical historian estimates that he worked 100+ hours a week. How many hours a week do you think MSB worked? Did he have writings on his vision on the country?

That regime could have been more successful if it focused on hyper-nationalism, scapegoating minorities, and merging the government with the capitalist class for optimal efficiency (state guided capitalism).

We were only "socialist" in name due to the soviet union sending weapons to any country that was "socialist", the west was much too reluctant to do that. We had some socialist polices but it was norway/sweden tier (free healthcare, education, land) but we didn't go full commie like Ethiopia which murdered people for their farms, forced people to work in mines and coffee farms etc. We had many private businesses. Stuff like Caano Warshada in Banadir was owned by some Abgaal guy and the gov would give incentives for entrepreneurs, I remember reading about it. It makes sense, especially for geeljirs who were the backbone of the economy with livestock exports

I think Siyaad probably "worked" 24/7. He always had bags under his eyes. You have to remember this nigga was paranoid and would've gotten nuclear weapons if he could. He was send ministers to every country to establish ties. Now that I think about it, the Somali economy at the beginning reminds me of a war time economy. I wish he had writings or if we could get closer insight on what he was like from a family member.

I agree the regime would've been successful if certain things were followed.

 

[GemState]

We were only "socialist" in name due to the soviet union sending weapons to any country that was "socialist", the west was much too reluctant to do that. We had some socialist polices but it was norway/sweden tier (free healthcare, education, land) but we didn't go full commie like Ethiopia which murdered people for their farms, forced people to work in mines and coffee farms etc. We had many private businesses. Stuff like Caano Warshada in Banadir was owned by some Abgaal guy and the gov would give incentives for entrepreneurs, I remember reading about it. It makes sense, especially for geeljirs who were the backbone of the economy with livestock exports

I think Siyaad probably "worked" 24/7. He always had bags under his eyes. You have to remember this nigga was paranoid and would've gotten nuclear weapons if he could. He was send ministers to every country to establish ties. Now that I think about it, the Somali economy at the beginning reminds me of a war time economy. I wish he had writings or if we could get closer insight on what he was like from a family member.

I agree the regime would've been successful if certain things were followed.

I can't blame him too much, Somalia got sabotaged from it's inception honestly. Nearly 500,000km², basically a landmass the size of Morocco split into Ethiopia/Kenya.

I think it was an impossible job turning Somalia into a success. Just too resource poor & the people have little history of centralized political power unlike the Habesha.

 

[cow]

you can never take hutu serious they praise aidiid who only looted and destroyed the country.

 

[GaradShabeel]

@DR OSMAN one thing that leaves a nasty taste in my mouth is when Darood users here support/don’t challenge HAGItes dumping the responsibility of their crimes on the shoulders of MSB

From my point of view, it wasn't to relieve all responsibilities on MSB, but rather mentioned some "damages" he did to the Somali state, and not so much focusing on the development & achievement of his gov't. Trust me, for my part, I and most of my relatives are happy for the sacrifice he made, despite all the odds against him, for our cause in DDS. But due to failure in (military) strategies, it foiled, but it could've worked too. Which backfired for Somalia, with the involvement of Ethiopia backing the rebels; financing, arming, using its soil etc. And for the risks he took, we are eternally grateful.

Also, I didn't factor in specific clans, and their share of burden, to the problems we see. I was *only* referring to events up until his fall. Since '91, irrespective of what he did or didn't do prior, nothing can be put to blame on him. Despite how some Somalis try to deflect their own actions (and their clansmen), as to why the country haven't progressed. To be frank, even backwards.

When the gov't fell, instead of getting together to work out some sort of agreement on how to move forward, we all know how the "gun" was pointed at specific Somalis (i.e. clans) for the purpose of *intentional* expulsions, eliminations and clan cleansings. A new wave of large scale violence ensured against civilians, in a new political context. Before later on turning on themselves and their own clan. Not to forget destructions of their own cities and towns, and key infrastructures, lootings, and so forth.

Matter fact, even on the issue of separatism, SNM was not hellbent on the matter and (significant fractions) was open to keeping the union intact. But due to the failure in the south, they gave up and took their own direction. Which is, despite how much people hate them, the reason they have stability today. Just like SL, PL also took matters into their own hands, to create something of their own, due to desperation. When the south couldn't get their sh*t together.

The Somalis (in particular non-Daroods) who hate MSB, rarely hold their own criminals accountable, from north to south of Somalia, for what they did. I don't agree nor sugarcoat with them, so if they want to chime in, they have to speak about their clansmen role in the destruction of Somalia, which is the real reasons for what we see today. Instead of shielding behind MSB, who has been irrelevant since '91.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@anon2 this @bidenkulaha looma jawaabo, the guy made the whole nation a failed state n refugees n wants to tell us siyad was bad. Why did our passport mean something(global image), we wud of been like china n india on scholarships n respected in the world.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@GaradShabeel @bidenkulaha doesn't want to talk 'caqli' but 'feelings'. I have the feeling im going to be president of somalia one day, the fact is 'im not in villa somalia'. The guy and his ppl cannot separate their feeling n reason, darods definitely can at a much higher rate, hadad wax caqli uu sheegtid ma diidaayo, a hag will becuz of 'clan pride'.

If somalia( which is known as a black market economy where nothing is trusted or used and terrrorist oligarchies exist) he thinks thats a better economic model then siyad infrastructure investment, manufacturing, his oil n mineral policies, energy backbone vision. I mean even 'non muslim n muslim' live in fkn halane refusing to enter his city under the HAG glory age, are they wrong also? they prefer living in shipping containers n importing their food n chefs from kenya, xataa hilibkisa iyo biyahisa lama rabe, tuugaani tuuga dhashay, niin herkasi joggo oo raba inu ragga soo hor faristo weeye

 

[GaradShabeel]

@GaradShabeel @bidenkulaha doesn't want to talk 'caqli' but 'feelings'. I have the feeling im going to be president of somalia one day, the fact is 'im not in villa somalia'. The guy and his ppl cannot separate their feeling n reason, darods definitely can at a much higher rate, hadad wax caqli uu sheegtid ma diidaayo, a hag will becuz of 'clan pride'.

You're not wrong. From my personal experience, I've seen more Daroods than anyone else admit the things people of our own clan have done, even if it's a hard pill to swallow sometimes when you get attacked. Others have a hard time doing so. When you question SNM, the response you get is that they were ALL heroes. The topic of USC gets controversial, before the deflections starts. Even as you're speaking the truth. Which I've observed to be weird.

If somalia( which is known as a black market economy where nothing is trusted or used and terrrorist oligarchies exist) he thinks thats a better economic model then siyad infrastructure investment, manufacturing, his oil n mineral policies, energy backbone vision. I mean even 'non muslim n muslim' live in fkn halane refusing to enter his city under the HAG glory age, are they wrong also? they prefer living in shipping containers n importing their food n chefs from kenya, xataa hilibkisa iyo biyahisa lama rabe, tuugaani tuuga dhashay, niin herkasi joggo oo raba inu ragga soo hor faristo weeye

That's true. Also notice, whenever MSB is criticized, it's when he's used a boogeyman to deflect the Somalia we see today. Wallahi waa ceeb markaa aan fiirino Soomaaliya uu MSB ka tagay, iyo Soomaaliya aan maanta haysano. Two completely different world. Very embarrassing, to say the least. What have we to show for, in terms of achievement for the past 30+ years. Even when we complain about MSB. Further killings, corruptions, terrorist safe haven, warlords, massive famines, the economy is non-existent question, the Somali name being shat on etc.

Waa habaar waxani, meel alla meelkasto, aad uu jeesato, halkeen ka arki karnaa horumar aanu samaynay, sidii dowladda MSB uu burburay? Ma guul ayaa qaranka Soomaaliyeed ka jirta maanta? Waxaan ka cambaareen iyo wax kasii daran ayaa ka socoda.

 

[bidenkulaha]

@anon2 this @bidenkulaha looma jawaabo, the guy made the whole nation a failed state n refugees n wants to tell us siyad was bad. Why did our passport mean something(global image), we wud of been like china n india on scholarships n respected in the world.

Somalia under a Darood was always doomed this is what you don’t understand. And you are right I do believe hawiye is best to lead Somalia. Doesn’t make sense for a minority to lead any country. To have buy in for a government, the majority must rule. Hence why I support 1m1v in the future once we build the institutions to ensure a stable Somalia is born and protected

 

[GaradShabeel]

Somalia under a Darood was always doomed this is what you don’t understand. And you are right I do believe hawiye is best to lead Somalia. Doesn’t make sense for a minority to lead any country. To have buy in for a government, the majority must rule. Hence why I support 1m1v in the future once we build the institutions to ensure a stable Somalia is born and protected

Is the purpose of 1p1v to uphold 4.5 or to let everyone choose who they see to be fit, regardless of clan?

 

[bidenkulaha]

Is the purpose of 1p1v to uphold 4.5 or to let everyone choose who they see to be fit?

4.5 is dulmi against Hawiye. Less than 25% representation. We’re only surviving politically because of the KG and SL MPs. Daroods have two big states in PL and JL while Banadir the biggest population region is not a state. Yet they contribute nothing to the FGS.

1m1v will allow for the end of 4.5 power sharing too. A big clan like Cayr can have multiple Ministers. Currently we have to share a measly one with HG. Another dulmi. In my opinion this will be fixed by 1m1v given our strong presence in vast swathes of the country and our ability to weaken any president if they aren’t allied

 

[Stranger3000]

I will write a small piece on this man who ruled Somalia for 21 years, as he is still a very divisive man. I support the PRO Siyad camp and I will declare my bias, I myself wouldn't be where I am without his investment into my father diplomatic career. The supportive arguments I will list for siyad will be listed below.

1. Nothing of his calibre has been seen after him is an agreeable fact no matter how much you love your clan this is a fact
2. The man's economic vision to turn us into light manufacturing nation and converting all the peasants with jobs is a fact, where-as now what we have is a black-market(untrustable products n goods) and on top of that an oligarchy model and 99% poor.
3. The man's vision to make us energy independent thru the baardheere electricity dam
4. The man vision to bring oil developers is well known
5. His cracking down rebels n political islamists(it started in late 70s) is commendable how he say the dangers of it, as saudi was sending islamists back to their home country to radicalize the population so the west doesn't touch their oil
6. His ethno nationalism of somalinimo was 'real' undeniable(war with ethiopia)

Arguments against

1. Dictatorship and not transferring power but some dictatorships are good and benevolent, their not all the same, it's a spectrum they just usually turn out bad is the prediction
2. His targetting of of civilians in rural or urban settings due to clan, especially rural nomads infrastructure(scorch earth, maxaa ka galey dad reer miyi ah minding their own business). It could be argued his targetting of hargeisa was justified as the rebels were fighting from civilian quarters tho.
3. He was a socialist, i dont see that as an argument as it's an idealogy to put policies for local interests at the forefront not business
4. Systematic targetting of civilians in their homes in hamar with rape n disapperance. I don't know if this 100% accurate if they were doing illegal things, he can enforce the law of his govt.

My conclusions is I am pro siyad and he left behind his last wisdom before he left, which shockingly still rings true. 'Dal baan ka tagay, dad kama tagin', this curse is visible in everywhere I look in Somalia, their is a nation officially but technically their no ppl. Kind of like a computer exists but it's not functioning.

Sorry but this is the silliest take ive ever heard. Considering the guy left office after losing half the country he must be the worst leader to have ever taken office anywhere. Imagine a Uk prime minister leaving office after having lost half of england or a french one after having lost half of france. In no measure fathomable would he be considered even in the least sucessful or useful. The gut failed his first function of leave a single country. This was a guy that sieged the second capital. Imagine the Uk prime minister laying siege to birmingham instead of resigning. The guy was retarded. You managed to get a few pennies so i guess thats your only reason to look upon him favorably. Imagine the cost of those few pennies is your whole population dependent on aid or in the benefits office. A joke.

And in some other line you said "daroods tend to leave us better off". What sort of silly rationale is that. As if theres a causual relationship between having a dead forefather and "leaving countries better off". Thats like me seeking out a "smith" to do my surgery because just the name "smith" confers magic surgen hands and not instead say attending medical school. A joke.

 

[bidenkulaha]

I agree darood is to occupied with things beyond our borders and to destabilise the region 4.5 system should be abolished and darood be a slave class

I wouldn’t go so far as slaves but every Darood politician should be like Hamza Barre

 

[Keep it a boqol]

I agree darood is to occupied with things beyond our borders and to destabilise the region 4.5 system should be abolished and darood be a slave class

How is darood trying to destabilize the region? And what’s the obsession with slavery

 

[Prince of HS]

4.5 is dulmi against Hawiye. Less than 25% representation. We’re only surviving politically because of the KG and SL MPs. Daroods have two big states in PL and JL while Banadir the biggest population region is not a state. Yet they contribute nothing to the FGS.

1m1v will allow for the end of 4.5 power sharing too. A big clan like Cayr can have multiple Ministers. Currently we have to share a measly one with HG. Another dulmi. In my opinion this will be fixed by 1m1v given our strong presence in vast swathes of the country and our ability to weaken any president if they aren’t allied

IMO Wacbudhan and Cayr are the two largest juffo in Somalia. I’m certain if you were to add the population of these two, it would be larger than the population of Jubbaland