Show Down - Puntite Secularist Vs Puntite Islamist

[DR OSMAN]

@Somali emirate of punt im callin u out waryaa?


Where the secularist at?


We are ballin as secularist sxb, we know we stand for the best system in the world and it's provable how other systems simply look primitive in comparison. Secularism vs Islamist was done already between abdillahi yusuf and alitihaad, this shit will get heated again if I come to PL and remind people the islamists are still here

 

[DR OSMAN]

@AutumnBreeze all puntites are federalist but we are all not on the same page about the state function and religion. I will be honest we have far right militant n political islamist in PL who are still there like ali haji warsame a former alitihaad guy. Then we have the center guys this is where most puntites fall into where they want modern state and islam combined and used where appropriate. This is where most puntites on this forum stand their right bang in the center mainstream. But me and some other puntites are center leftists who want a full blown secular state where human rights is the only criteria not a religion and where all irrespective of religion or personal liberties are not infringed on.

We are not popular trust me but we don't have an armed far leftist group in the secular camp like the islamist do, but it could happen one day, we will see. I would support them to kick those far right islamist ass but i wouldn't support them to attack the centrists like most puntites and say their not resorting to violence but using the state to comprise our political leanings.

The centrist take wat they like from the left wing like gender equality, democracy, but they curb on human rights and take from the political islamist shariah law, this is where the issue is. I am no damn centrist f*ck them sxb, they flip flop between ISLAMIST N SECULARIST. They think center position by comprising secularist n islamist is possible, it's not, isma arki karno niyahow

 

[DR OSMAN]

@AutumnBreeze Somalis pick n choose what they want from secularism like gender equality but then not homosexual rights or disbeliever rights, it's a flawed secularism and the reason is simple, the islamist are pressuring them to implement shariah law so they buckle at pressure not knowing that is essentially taking away human rights from non muslims, homosexuals, even personal liberties like alcohol are infringed on with shariah law, it's that petty niyahow. I am center left in PL politics a political secularist but can easily switch to armed secularist if the militias are there, we are one just like political/militant islamist are, political/militant leftist will also be one. Let the shit hit the roost i say. We won Sudan which is a big win, it's like anti slavery days, it took muslims 200 years to catch up with it, removing shariah will also take probably 50 years or less with the advent of internet in somalia as they start reading about ideas online.

Becuz islamist thrive the most when the ppl locally were in dark age about ideas in the world just like roman catholic church thrived by not educating their people and keeping them illerate. Their time is coming I say. How can u say I support some human rights but not all of it, u either accept it fully or u reject it, no in between like somalis do. I also agree with islamist about shariah law u either accept or reject there is no middle line about the shit. Moderates or Centrists are trying to balance the two sides when both sides hold fundamentally differing positions that are not co-existable, either islamist must rule or secularist, take u pick waryaa somaliyay, stop cherry picking and sitting in the middle like a duli like u all are. They will say gashin to all the shabaabis and extreemist post and say qashin to secularist post, their confused lot wallahi

 

[AutumnBreeze]

@AutumnBreeze all puntites are federalist but we are all not on the same page about the state function and religion. I will be honest we have far right militant n political islamist in PL who are still there like ali haji warsame a former alitihaad guy. Then we have the center guys this is where most puntites fall into where they want modern state and islam combined and used where appropriate. This is where most puntites on this forum stand their right bang in the center mainstream. But me and some other puntites are center leftists who want a full blown secular state where human rights is the only criteria not a religion and where all irrespective of religion or personal liberties are not infringed on.

We are not popular trust me but we don't have an armed far leftist group in the secular camp like the islamist do, but it could happen one day, we will see. I would support them to kick those far right islamist ass but i wouldn't support them to attack the centrists like most puntites and say their not resorting to violence but using the state to comprise our political leanings.

Heres my 2cents. Muslims understand falsely about the verse and i paraphrase "islam shall overcome everyother religion". They took that as a greenlight to force shahada out the mouths of non-believers.
You have to be confident that your way of life is superior and future generations will be inclined towards it. Under this secular system, NB cant force their ideologies on believers. Infact no, one can force anything on anybody. As i like to say, let people work for their hell or heaven. If your mosque is a block away from club it shouldnt be any of your bussiness. The quran is filled with such principles "oh muhammed yours is only preaching, and for us is judgment"
"Who ever sins, he has only earned it upon himself" and many similar verses.

Ofcourse i disagree with many aspects of current secularism, but theyre definitely more in line with God's macro principles. Let people earn hell or heaven!!! You cant force your sect on them neither can they force it on you. Isnt that beautiful. One thing this system would achieve is that somalis would mind their own bussiness akhiro iyo aduun. Learn your knowledge, worship your God, and dont harm others!!!and the satanist Goth will earn his sins but wont harm you!!!

 

[DR OSMAN]

@AutumnBreeze it's either human rights system or shariah law, don't go around cherry picking what bits u want from both trying to get the two sides to a comprise, either your secularist or islamist, no moderate crap sxb even tho I respect u like to balance things out but I don't negiotate that all humans are equal before god therefore should be equal before the state and enjoy the same rights as all citizens irrespective of gender, race, religion, idealogy.

Please Put your ideas on the table. Secularism means no religion has influence over the state.

This means atheist-agnostics-christians-jews-muslims-non religious cannot impose their views on other using state mechanism or taking away the right of all to enjoy their beliefs or disbelief without interference from a state body or govt institutions. I am sure secularists can come to a comprise about personal liberties like homosexuality being restricted for now(we will inform homosexuals sorry but at this stage the nation isn't mature enough to respect that personal choice but we will continue to fight for u and vote for us"

we will not negiotate on shariah law n state being separate, that is a damn fundamental against the whole idea of Secularism, so u get those islamists out of the state affairs, and update our constitution to declare puntland is secular state that respects the differences of it's citizens and treats them equally not punish them. God allowed us free will to speak, why is the state taking my ability to speak, preach, do as I please if I am not breaking the law? god said all humans are equal before god, so why am I not equal in the state as disbeliever?

I know what u want to do u want to bring about moderation crap, but u can't moderate secularism it's about humanity have fundamental rights where-as shariah is about enforcing islam as the state meaning people can be persecuted for simply refusing to believe or practise therefore breaking the fundamental human right of freedom of religion.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@AutumnBreeze I am staunch federalist don't get me wrong but I never discussed this matter because we haven't achieved federalism, I wanted this matter to be the next issue that is implemented after federalism where religion n state is separated and where the govt stands for and protects it's citizen as human beings not on their belief, clan, race, gender, and other identity politics. The only identity we want is human rights as guiding pillar of our state, not shariah law. I want our citizens to not only respect but defend that agreement and disagreements co-exist in politics, reliigon, clan, or whatever identity politics u get the drift. God n satan co-exist don't they, god didn't trample on satan rights to exist.

People should also be allowed to follow or leave a religion if they choose so, the key word is 'exercise of free choice' because god said he gave humans free will, he didn't say muslims have free will only, war niyahow is-gabo, secularism is 'cadalaad' it will solve all our issues, we won't go around seeking enemies constantly due to identity politics, we will cherish we are FREE due to our govt where those u agree with and disagree with are equal, free, protected. What better system is there?

Somalis only adopted the secularist ideas of free elections, democracy of parties and idealogy, but it still bans any party that is against islam, hence it's not a fully free society, it's a flawed democracy, it's cause those islamist want to make u buckle on human rights because they fear if there is differences in society, they can't hang with it so they want the state to eliminate it.

 

[AutumnBreeze]

@AutumnBreeze it's either human rights system or shariah law, don't go around cherry picking what bits u want from both trying to get the two sides to a comprise, either your secularist or islamist, no moderate crap sxb even tho I respect u like to balance things out but I don't negiotate that all humans are equal before god therefore should be equal before the state and enjoy the same rights as all citizens irrespective of gender, race, religion, idealogy.

Please Put your ideas on the table. Secularism means no religion has influence over the state.

This means atheist-agnostics-christians-jews-muslims-non religious cannot impose their views on other using state mechanism or taking away the right of all to enjoy their beliefs or disbelief without interference from a state body or govt institutions. I am sure secularists can come to a comprise about personal liberties like homosexuality being restricted for now(we will inform homosexuals sorry but at this stage the nation isn't mature enough to respect that personal choice but we will continue to fight for u and vote for us"

we will not negiotate on shariah law n state being separate, that is a damn fundamental against the whole idea of Secularism, so u get those islamists out of the state affairs, and update our constitution to declare puntland is secular state that respects the differences of it's citizens and treats them equally not punish them. God allowed us free will to speak, why is the state taking my ability to speak, preach, do as I please if I am not breaking the law? god said all humans are equal before god, so why am I not equal in the state as disbeliever?

I know what u want to do u want to bring about moderation crap, but u can't moderate secularism it's about humanity have fundamental rights where-as shariah is about enforcing islam as the state meaning people can be persecuted for simply refusing to believe or practise therefore breaking the fundamental human right of freedom of religion.

I am for secularism. I just would tweak things to fit somali culture/islam. You see, certain aspect of islam have been infused with our culture, and gaal and muslim somalis agree to it. For example if you kill someone, we muslims follow the quran "a life is for a life, or a person can forgive "
Theres many things like this that are cultural but happen to be islamic, that somalis gaal ama muslim would agree with. Even if you dont agree with this you have to admit theres many many things like this that have to be hashed out.

However here are the things about secularism i agree with
Let people be sinners if they choose
Let people preach their ways of life(but only to adults)
Let any religion, worship and preach.(but only to adults. basically you have untill your child is 18 to convince them of your particular beliefs. After that he's fairgame)

And no use of Force on an Adult! Ever!

 

[DR OSMAN]

I am for secularism. I just would tweak things to fit somali culture/islam. You see, certain aspect of islam have been infused with our culture, and gaal and muslim somalis agree to it. For example if you kill someone, we muslims follow the quran "a life is for a life, or a person can forgive "
Theres many things like this that are cultural but happen to be islamic, that somalis gaal ama muslim would agree with. Even if you dont agree with this you have to admit theres many many things like this that have to be hashed out.

However here are the things about secularism i agree with
Let people be sinners if they choose
Let people preach their ways of life(but only to adults)
Let any religion, worship and preach.(but only to adults. basically you have untill your child is 18 to convince them of your particular beliefs. After that he's fairgame)

And no use of Force on an Adult! Ever!

I personally think homosexuality is wrong but I will not infringe my views and then convert it into a law and arrest or kill homosexuals, that's where secular state is useful to protect those u don't agree with having the same right to do what u don't like, after all it's pretty common that humans have free will and it was given to us by god, so it looks ludicurous when u start saying u can no longer practise your free will, they lost a god given right then, the state doesn't dictate what free will is, it has to leave it to people to decide not decide for them thru shariah laws.

I don't mind if a radical islamist party comes to power thru elections if they don't infringe on my right to be free, and I don't infringe on their right to be free, it's mutual respect for our shared humanity. It's them who start to interfere in our free will, u will never see gays,atheists, alcoholics, zina people, or anyone outside the mainstream of Somalia ever come and say I will enforce my way of life on muslims, do u? even if they did they would be stopped by the state since the state should represents all it's citizens on that principle all has free will and no man has the right to interfere let alone a state, that's why america says we don't worship the state, it's not god, but in somalia they do worship the state since it's shariah law it's sickening.

What pisses me off the most is how u sit down and regulate free will as religion, that's what put me off these islamists, that's when i knew their not really muslims but imposters.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@AutumnBreeze I don't mind kids are not exposed to ideas until their of legal mature age, it's up to their parents how they raise their child since they are the guardian, but the child has the right upon becoming an adult to make their own decisions and enjoy the same right as all citizens and search for what they do believe or disbelieve in or what personal liberties they like or dislike.

Schooling must be purely about natural studies not supernatural studies, if u want supernatural studies u can take your child to a school that fits your supernatural views, but u won't enforce that in public run schools, since those taxes are collected from all sides of societies and we don't want their money being spent to give one religion the advantage of others by poisoning children at an early age.

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

Islam is a way of life, a clean way of life. All the things it prohibits is not good for a society whether its Financial Interest, Khamri/drugs, Abortion, sexual degeneracy etc. No one wil honesty claim those things are good for anyone. I am not for a theocracy, but we should never allow such things in the kingdom of Punt. Im in the middle and view both skeptically. The islamist can turn into a khawarij while the secularist will bring his deviant lifestyle to society.