Should we start claiming to be Ethiopian

[Ras]

The deal isn't that bad tbh.

I know Farmaajo sold us out but we can still make something out of it.

However I have a bad feeling that Ethiopia will soon have a lockdown on everything going down in Somalia.

It might turn into a open roof prison like the Galbeed and Gaza.

The only navy and air force in our seas and air will be Ethiopian unless we quickly get our shit together.

 

[Von]

The deal isn't that bad tbh.

I know Farmaajo sold us out but we can still make something out of it.

However I have a bad feeling that Ethiopia will soon have a lockdown on everything going down in Somalia.

It might turn into a open roof prison like the Galbeed and Gaza.

The only navy and air force in our seas and air will be Ethiopian unless we quickly get our shit together.

Are Somalis that Qablist that they dont see the bigger picture? in any other country a national uprisings would have happened to protect the country.
South Korea had a 78 dollar per capita GDP and had foreign nations who wanted to control it, look out it today. Iran saw their king as a puppet and the UK taking all their oil, they revolted and the Germans saw that united was need to keep the Russia/French out. What do they have that we dont ?

 

[Ras]

Are Somalis that Qablist that they dont see the bigger picture? in any other country a national uprisings would have happened to protect the country.
South Korea had a 78 dollar per capita GDP and had foreign nations who wanted to control it, look out it today. Iran saw their king as a puppet and the UK taking all their oil, they revolted and the Germans saw that united was need to keep the Russia/French out. What do they have that we dont ?

Wrong time of history.

National pride used to be a respectable characteristic but it's not pragmatic in today's world.

The reason we've been fucking up for the past decades is due to us not understanding that simple fact.

All the countries you mentioned suffered backlashes from their jingoistic acts.

• Germany was forced to go along with the EU.
• Iran is fighting the whole world by itself.
• Korea is owned by foreigners on both sides.
• Argentina has been getting punished by the Brits since the Falklands war (they need to work on their grudges).
• Venezuela pisses of it's neighbour...(Chávez sacrificed his country's future by making just so he could stay on for longer). Now they're selling their oil in return for crypto currencies and a bag of rice.

Nationalist in public office are seen as loose cannons and usually ostracized by most the IC.

When we insisted on taking on Ethiopia in the ogaden war; we basically told the world that we didn't understand:

1. working for the bigger picture,

2. patience and a sense of control and finally


3. how to stay lowkey/discreet instead of blasting out our greater geopolitical ambitions the moment we got our hands on some out of date weapons.

What would we do if we had better weapons? Threaten their interest as well (larger powers).

That's why the US didn't help us and Russia went as far as interfering.

That's why the Brits been on our case since the Warsangeli fucked them over after signing a treaty with them.

The world already lost hope in us and some would even make sure we stay in our current position because they think we're loose cannons.

Agreeing to this deal would tell them that we've finally grown up and know how to compromise like rational actors.

Everything has its time and our problem waa that we wanted to become a global superpower right after being given independence...

 

[Von]

Wrong time of history.

National pride used to be a respectable characteristic but it's not pragmatic in today's world.

The reason we've been fucking up for the past decades is due to us not understanding that simple fact.

All the countries you mentioned suffered backlashes from their jingoistic acts.

• Germany was forced to go along with the EU.
• Iran is fighting the whole world by itself.
• Korea is owned by foreigners on both sides.
• Argentina has been getting punished by the Brits since the Falklands war (they need to work on their grudges).
• Venezuela pisses of it's neighbour...(Chávez sacrificed his country's future by making just so he could stay on for longer). Now they're selling their oil in return for crypto currencies and a bag of rice.

Nationalist in public office are seen as loose cannons and usually ostracized by most the IC.

When we insisted on taking on Ethiopia in the ogaden war; we basically told the world that we didn't understand:

1. working for the bigger picture,

2. patience and a sense of control and finally


3. how to stay lowkey/discreet instead of blasting out our greater geopolitical ambitions the moment we got our hands on some out of date weapons.

What would we do if we had better weapons? Threaten their interest as well (larger powers).

That's why the US didn't help us and Russia went as far as interfering.

That's why the Brits been on our case since the Warsangeli fucked them over after signing a treaty with them.

The world already lost hope in us and some would even make sure we stay in our current position because they think we're loose cannons.

Agreeing to this deal would tell them that we've finally grown up and know how to compromise like rational actors.

Everything has its time and our problem waa that we wanted to become a global superpower right after being given independence...

So what makes you think that one little deal will signal to the world and to the Brits that we are ready to be fucked over in a peaceful and give you nearly free resources in return for peace? If Argentina is still being fucked over than what chance do we have ?

 

[Ras]

So what makes you think that one little deal will signal to the world and to the Brits that we are ready to be fucked over in a peaceful and give you nearly free resources in return for peace? If Argentina is still being fucked over than what chance do we have ?

They'll start using lube.

It's a start.

Argentina could've owned most of South America by know.

Instead they just have a decent economy compared to their neighbours.

They'll get some push back from the global financial order whenever they forget their place.

Sounds depressing but it isn't that bad.

They get to enjoy their country at least.

 

[Von]

They'll start using lube.

It's a start.

Argentina could've owned most of South America by know.

Instead they just have a decent economy compared to their neighbours.

They'll get some push back from the global financial order whenever they forget their place.

Sounds depressing but it isn't that bad.

They get to enjoy their country at least.

Honestly, this is depressing to say the least... From this deal do you see Somalia and UK relations increasing and improving and what will Somalia need to do to signal to the world and UK we accepted the world order? we giving up our oil be one of them ?

 

[Ras]

Honestly, this is depressing to say the least... From this deal do you see Somalia and UK relations increasing and improving and what will Somalia need to do to signal to the world and UK we accepted the world order? we giving up our oil be one of them ?

It's actually quite simple.

Don't be a threat to the world order.

We have to intricately integrate our economies with those of the west like Turkey (did).

I.e. we have to give them the keys to our internal pacemakers.

No need to bend the knee like other African countries (cough Rwanda), just don't rock the boat.

Those big powers aren't a monolithic block so there's plenty of space for us to find our ecological niche within those deep waters.

By selling our oil/resources to the right faction we could in turn get benefits through them as well.

After a couple decades we'll be past the probationary period and we'll be free to do whatever we want (to a limit).

 

[Von]

It's actually quite simple.

Don't be a threat to the world order.

We have to intricately integrate our economies with those of the west like Turkey (did).

I.e. we have to give them the keys to our internal pacemakers.

No need to bend the knee like other African countries (cough Rwanda), just don't rock the boat.

Those big powers aren't a monolithic block so there's plenty of space for us to find our ecological niche within those deep waters.

By selling our oil/resources to the right faction we could in turn get benefits through them as well.

After a couple decades we'll be past the probationary period and we'll be free to do whatever we want (to a limit).

This is 3D chess while being blind.... four questions: integrate what economy to the west, ship goats/camels to Arabia and that about it? What do you mean by giving them keys to our peace? like, allow them to destroy us with ease from within if we rebel. Whats the difference between Rwanda and us? In terms of limits, Greater Somalia is out of the question, right?

 

[Ras]

This is 3D chess while being blind.... four questions: integrate what economy to the west, ship goats/camels to Arabia and that about it? What do you mean by giving them keys to our peace? like, allow them to destroy us with ease from within if we rebel. Whats the difference between Rwanda and us? In terms of limits, Greater Somalia is out of the question, right?

1. The economy might be nonexistent atm but that's only because of the lack of rule of law.

Once we get a stable government; our GDP per capita will shoot to $5,000 within 3 years.

That's 75 billion USD and more than enough to fund widespread education and in turn gradually further increase our GDP per capita through increased productivity.

All the resources we need to kick-start our economy is under us (don't mean the nonexistent oil) and we just need rule of law to make use of it efficiently.

2. Pretty much.

However, more like hurt than destroy us.

They could make it more expensive for us to import goods or keep up with foreign reserves demands & etc.

They wouldn't be able to induce an instant economic crash but they could gradually cut off the oxygen.

We just need to control more leverage for ourselves within their systems and we could alleviate the more obvious risks.

3. I probably shouldn't talk about Rwanda too much before I get myself on a list somewhere. I plan to visit that place one day.

However let's just say that they are the perfect type of partners for the West in the region.

4. What's that land going to do for us? To regain dignity/pride?

What is that? Can you eat it?

Trust me, you'll find much more glory with a beautiful skyline in your major cities within mainland Somalia.

You can't have both unfortunately as land grabbing after ww2 is a big no no.

That unwritten rule was even upheld during the cold war.

However who's to say what the future brings?

Patience & yielding a few concessions is the only way we'll dig ourselves out of this hole.

We existed for almost a millennia already.

We've been suffering for almost 3 decades and I'm sure our ancestors seen worse.

A couple decades of following the "rules" isn't going to kill us.

Ethiopia doesn't dare to annex us and the Kenyans aren't worth worrying about.

 

[Von]

1. The economy might be nonexistent atm but that's only because of the lack of rule of law.

Once we get a stable government; our GDP per capita will shoot to $5,000 within 3 years.

That's 75 billion USD and more than enough to fund widespread education and in turn gradually further increase our GDP per capita through increased productivity.

All the resources we need to kick-start our economy is under us (don't mean the nonexistent oil) and we just need rule of law to make use of it efficiently.

2. Pretty much.

However, more like hurt than destroy us.

They could make it more expensive for us to import goods or keep up with foreign reserves demands & etc.

They wouldn't be able to induce an instant economic crash but they could gradually cut off the oxygen.

We just need to control more leverage for ourselves within their systems and we could alleviate the more obvious risks.

3. I probably shouldn't talk about Rwanda too much before I get myself on a list somewhere. I plan to visit that place one day.

However let's just say that they are the perfect type of partners for the West in the region.

4. What's that land going to do for us? To regain dignity/pride?

What is that? Can you eat it?

Trust me, you'll find much more glory with a beautiful skyline in your major cities within mainland Somalia.

You can't have both unfortunately as land grabbing after ww2 is a big no no.

That unwritten rule was even upheld during the cold war.

However who's to say what the future brings?

Patience & yielding a few concessions is the only way we'll dig ourselves out of this hole.

We existed for almost a millennia already.

We've been suffering for almost 3 decades and I'm sure our ancestors seen worse.

A couple decades of following the "rules" isn't going to kill us.

Ethiopia doesn't dare to annex us and the Kenyans aren't worth worrying about.

Do you see any evidence of this rule of law happening right now? i guess its contingent on what the UK thinks as well
75 billion dollars, huh i got to start looking at what industry ill invest in.
I will do some research into that East African nation you mentioned.

 

[Ras]

Do you see any evidence of this rule of law happening right now? i guess its contingent on what the UK thinks as well
75 billion dollars, huh i got to start looking at what industry ill invest in.
I will do some research into that East African nation you mentioned.

Nope. I'm afraid it'll get worse but it gets better.

If this deal goes through then those corrupts bandits in Somalia will start a Royal Rumble to fight over the scraps Ethiopian is throwing our way as concessions.

 

[Von]

Nope. I'm afraid it'll get worse but it gets better.

If this deal goes through then those corrupts bandits in Somalia will start a Royal Rumble to fight over the scraps Ethiopian is throwing our way as concessions.

Is it a matter of the UK not Ethiopia, if Somalia made good with the UK the Ethiopia/Arabia would lose support to undermine Somalia right? I guess Farmaajo needs to make another trip back to London and bend the knee

 

[SomaliMVP]

1. The economy might be nonexistent atm but that's only because of the lack of rule of law.

Once we get a stable government; our GDP per capita will shoot to $5,000 within 3 years.

That's 75 billion USD and more than enough to fund widespread education and in turn gradually further increase our GDP per capita through increased productivity.

All the resources we need to kick-start our economy is under us (don't mean the nonexistent oil) and we just need rule of law to make use of it efficiently.

How?

 

[Ras]

Is it a matter of the UK not Ethiopia, if Somalia made good with the UK the Ethiopia/Arabia would lose support to undermine Somalia right? I guess Farmaajo needs to make another trip back to London and bend the knee

Unfortunately we'd have to go through the roundabout way of communicating through British proxies like the UAE and Ethiopia.

The UK promised them something in return for acting for them so we can't cut them out without a good reason.

We're not valuable enough for the UK to drop the UAE & Ethiopia for us.

How?

Gdp is mainly based on domestic demand.

The reason for our low demand is due to the millions of pastoralist that are parasiting of their livestock.

+80% of their needs gets supplied through their livestock.

The tiny bit of currency they hold is from what they get once a year after selling some livestock.

Have a feeling that once rule of law is established then the livestock industry will be industrialised by entrepreneurs who will use the chance to own large farm land to raise livestock in huge numbers.

They'll push down the prices and force those pastoralist to find new livelihoods.

Since most Geeljire won't or can't get into farming they'll try to urbanize.

The average urban African GDP per capita tends to be 10x higher than their rural counterparts.

Although there are a lot of other variables involved (productivity, education & even IQ) but just having a large percentage of your population in cities moves up the economy by quite a bit.

See attached graph

This is mainly because of the social pressures in cities that you don't usually find in the baadiyo.

Also since you'd be hard pressed to make those Geeljire work like migrant workers in Guangzhou, we'll start thinking of creative ways to still meet the demands of city living.

This mainly depends on government action so I'll stop here to avoid speculating about the future.

 

[Von]

Unfortunately we'd have to go through the roundabout way of communicating through British proxies like the UAE and Ethiopia.

The UK promised them something in return for acting for them so we can't cut them out without a good reason.

We're not valuable enough for the UK to drop the UAE & Ethiopia for us.



Gdp is mainly based on domestic demand.

The reason for our low demand is due to the millions of pastoralist that are parasiting of their livestock.

+80% of their needs gets supplied through their livestock.

The tiny bit of currency they hold is from what they get once a year after selling some livestock.

Have a feeling that once rule of law is established then the livestock industry will be industrialised by entrepreneurs who will use the chance to own large farm land to raise livestock in huge numbers.

They'll push down the prices and force those pastoralist to find new livelihoods.

Since most Geeljire won't or can't get into farming they'll try to urbanize.

The average urban African GDP per capita tends to be 10x higher than their rural counterparts.

Although there are a lot of other variables involved (productivity, education & even IQ) but just having a large percentage of your population in cities moves up the economy by quite a bit.

See attached graph

This is mainly because of the social pressures in cities that you don't usually find in the baadiyo.

Also since you'd be hard pressed to make those Geeljire work like migrant workers in Guangzhou, we'll start thinking of creative ways to still meet the demands of city living.

This mainly depends on government action so I'll stop here to avoid speculating about the future.

So how do to normalise relations with the UK if we are still going to be f*cked by their proxies? i mean it seems pointless to go through Ethiopia and Arabia since their goal is not to see the raise or stability in Somalia. Also, what did the UK promise them?

 

[tesfey67n]

i mea

After seeing today that the UAE gave Ethiopia one billion dollars and Ethiopia heading straight to Somalia for port deals. In light of this Somalia is officially dead, we lost the only asset that Ethiopia did not have... I now believe Somalia to be a true vassal state to Arabia Ethiopia. we are owned politically, economically, socially and militarily Ethiopia, Arab and Kenyan Should we start calling ourselves Ethiopian since Ethiopia owns us ?

I mean Somalis are native to Ethiopia and are the fastest growing population in Ethiopia according to stats. Somalia will definitely benefit from Ethiopia using its ports.

 

[Ras]

So how do to normalise relations with the UK if we are still going to be f*cked by their proxies? i mean it seems pointless to go through Ethiopia and Arabia since their goal is not to see the raise or stability in Somalia. Also, what did the UK promise them?

Like I mentioned before, these powers like the UK & the US aren't monolith blocs.

The factions behind Ethiopia (ppl running the US state dept) and the UAE (some faction in the UK finance sector) instructed them to pressure us.

Since they had to use proxies when it would've been more effective if they've done it should tell you that they couldn't be publicly involved.

Hence they can't publicly benefit from any of our concessions either.

Remember this whole UAE beef didn't start because Farmaajo decided to stay neutral in the recent gulf episode...

Like Hyenas, they've been circling us and particularly north Somalia (the gulf of Aden is all the US/UK really cares about) for years before that.

What Ethiopia & the UAE are mainly after is more political protection from those powerful factions in Europe & the US.

Especially from their news outlets.

They've already benefited from it as western media barely talks about the shit that goes down in both countries.

Ogaden massacres? What's an Ogaden?

Immigrant workers treated as slaves? Give them the next world cup.

It might seem like an unethical thing to do but countries rely on these closed eyes benefits to maintain stability in their countries.

We'll also need it if we want to crackdown on future dissenters in Somalia without the Washington Post or the Guardian pointing out every injustice in the country until the stable government gets overthrown.

I'm sure that ET & UAE also will get a piece of any monetary benefits they'll force out of us.

However it's a price we simply have to pay.

Whatever we lose; we'll make it back a hundred times over once we join the civilised world.

 

[Von]

Like I mentioned before, these powers like the UK & the US aren't monolith blocs.

The factions behind Ethiopia (ppl running the US state dept) and the UAE (some faction in the UK finance sector) instructed them to pressure us.

Since they had to use proxies when it would've been more effective if they've done it should tell you that they couldn't be publicly involved.

Hence they can't publicly benefit from any of our concessions either.

Remember this whole UAE beef didn't start because Farmaajo decided to stay neutral in the recent gulf episode...

Like Hyenas, they've been circling us and particularly north Somalia (the gulf of Aden is all the US/UK really cares about) for years before that.

What Ethiopia & the UAE are mainly after is more political protection from those powerful factions in Europe & the US.

Especially from their news outlets.

They've already benefited from it as western media barely talks about the shit that goes down in both countries.

Ogaden massacres? What's an Ogaden?

Immigrant workers treated as slaves? Give them the next world cup.

It might seem like an unethical thing to do but countries rely on these closed eyes benefits to maintain stability in their countries.

We'll also need it if we want to crackdown on future dissenters in Somalia without the Washington Post or the Guardian pointing out every injustice in the country until the stable government gets overthrown.

I'm sure that ET & UAE also will get a piece of any monetary benefits they'll force out of us.

However it's a price we simply have to pay.

Whatever we lose; we'll make it back a hundred times over once we join the civilised world.

Truly this is a war that spends generations,