Should Muslim Countries Become Closer to Israel?

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

So you change the story. Look, I don't care what you believe about my ethnicity. I'm not making some big deal about my ethnicity, you are.

I talk about different topics from my viewpoint and it generally has little to do with me personally.

Let's go one by one. I am anti-Western? Well I'm not against Western people personally but yeah I'm against Western degeneracy like any reasonable person should be.

Against Israel? What reasonable person isn't? There is something wrong with a person who is pro-Israel.

Pro-China? Well, basically I'm in favor of the Turkey-Pakistan-China bloc and I prefer it over the Israel-US bloc, sure.

Pro-Ethiopia?

I was directly asked about my viewpoint on Ethiopia and Kenya in relation to Somalia and so I gave it. I don't think it's justified to invade Ethiopia and Kenya to establish Somaliweyn. How many ajnabis would agree with that- even if we only limit it to Muslim ajnabis?

If we find a random Muslim from pretty much any other predominantly Muslim nationality and explain what Somaliweyn is and ask them if it is justified to invade Ethiopia and Kenya to establish Somaliweyn- I think they'll very likely think the same way I do.

I'm not against Somaliweyn in itself but I don't agree with invading Ethiopia and Kenya in order to establish Somaliweyn. People may not agree but what do you expect? You think I'm a hardline Somali nationalist?

I don't think I'm "Ethiopia affiliated" but yes I have what I think would be pretty much a standard ajnabi viewpoint. I only gave my viewpoint because I was directly asked.

Also, weren't there some Latin people who got involved in the issue previously?

"Siad Barre had arrived in Aden that morning. Mengistu did not arrive until the afternoon. I had a conversation with Siad Barre in which he bared his claws. He told me that if Mengistu was a real revolutionary he should do as Lenin, and withdraw from his territory. Siad Barre took a very hard position. I asked him whether he felt that there had been no real revolution in Ethiopia and that Mengistu was not a real leftist leader. He told me that there had been no revolution in Ethiopia. While in Mogadishu he had shown me a map of Greater Somalia in which half of Ethiopia had been annexed."

-Fidel Castro

Do you really think it is surprising that Fidel wasn't exactly sympathetic to Siad Barre?

Cuba prior to the Ogaden War had actually done things to help Somalia. Fidel wasn't out to get Somalia or Somalis. But he didn't think the invasion was justified.

Other people are free to their viewpoint and I am as well.

I still beleive you area fake mexican.

The war in the ogaden is not like war fighting over land as if Somalis came to settle in it.
Its is a land predominantly Somali having lived for a millenieum.

The land was given to Ethiopia in 1954 by the British.,just like how palestine was given to Israel.

The Ogaden people have never been recognised as Ethiopians.We dont have same equality as the other Ethiopians and masscres more than Palestine has happened under the blessing of the Internation Community.
Ethiopians or I rather call them Abysinains did not get the land through peace or referendum.So when you say the land should be acquired the peace the Why not the same with palestine?
At least palestine gets media coverage but Ogaden people dont.

Do you know when menelik captured harar in 1890s he converted the Grand masjìd of Harar into a church.


Dont be fooled by filthy xabeshas using the prophets hadith to justify their ocuupation and brudality on the muslim populace.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I still beleive you area fake mexican.

The war in the ogaden is not like war fighting over land as if Somalis came to settle in it.
Its is a land predominantly Somali having lived for a millenieum.

The land was given to Ethiopia in 1954 by the British.,just like how palestine was given to Israel.

The Ogaden people have never been recognised as Ethiopians.We dont have same equality as the other Ethiopians and masscres more than Palestine has happened under the blessing of the Internation Community.
Ethiopians or I rather call them Abysinains did not get the land through peace or referendum.So when you say the land should be acquired the peace the Why not the same with palestine?
At least palestine gets media coverage but Ogaden people dont.

Do you know when menelik captured harar in 1890s he converted the Grand masjìd of Harar into a church.


Dont be fooled by filthy xabeshas using the prophets hadith to justify their ocuupation and brudality on the muslim populace.

I don't care what ethnicity you think I am. This is a thread about whether Muslim countries should recognize Israel or not. You're the one that wanted to make it a thread about my ethnicity in order to use xenophobia as a rhetorical tool.

You want to come at me in a super aggressive way and use racism as a tool against me and then say not to be fooled by Ethiopians?

"In addition, Siad Barre had not only been insulting, he was resorting to subtle threats. At a certain point he said that one could not know where all of this could lead."

-Fidel Castro

So Fidel shows up in the Horn of Africa and Siad Barre apparently is being rude and insulting- but he still expects Fidel is going to take his side? It's not the way to win people over to one's side.

I give my viewpoint because I am directly asked about it and some hardline Somali nationalists start trying to go after me in the most aggressive way possible but still want me to agree with their cause?

Is that really a good reflection on the particular cause? "You better agree with us or else!"- am I really supposed to think that side is the reasonable side?

"Mengistu strikes me as a quiet, serious, and sincere leader who is aware of the power of the masses. He is an intellectual personality who showed his wisdom on 3 February."

-Fidel Castro

Who do you think Fidel is going to feel sympathetic towards? A person who is rude and insulting; "you're a fake Cuban"- or a person who comes across as quiet, calm, intellectual?

Fidel's conclusion was this and I agree:

"I have made up my mind about Siad Barre, he is above all a chauvinist. Chauvinism is the most important factor in him."

Ethnic chauvinism. "Ends justifies the means". That is how I look at the cause in question. You can try to insult and try to use racism to get people to gang up on me but my viewpoint of the cause is question has definitely been moved in a negative direction. I see it as fanatical ethnic chauvinism. I'm not looking to listen to history from a person who is rude and insulting and pushes hostility against me based on race.

You could have taken advantage of the fact that I'm an ajnabi and looked it at as a way to better inform me and just calmly explained your viewpoint rather than just coming at me in an extremely aggressive way that seems very consistent with what might be associated with fanatical ethnic chauvinism.

Meanwhile, Ethiopians have been friendly and very polite to me and I can have a calm, pleasant conversation with them. From the standpoint of your own interests- I think your approach does nothing but make the Ethiopians seem a lot more appealing. I'm not against Somalis and I've had the pleasure of talking to some really cool Somalis but I definitely don't have a good image of what I perceive as hardline Somali nationalism.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

I don't care what ethnicity you think I am. This is a thread about whether Muslim countries should recognize Israel or not. You're the one that wanted to make it a thread about my ethnicity in order to use xenophobia as a rhetorical tool.

You want to come at me in a super aggressive way and use racism as a tool against me and then say not to be fooled by Ethiopians?

"In addition, Siad Barre had not only been insulting, he was resorting to subtle threats. At a certain point he said that one could not know where all of this could lead."

-Fidel Castro

So Fidel shows up in the Horn of Africa and Siad Barre apparently is being rude and insulting- but he still expects Fidel is going to take his side? It's not the way to win people over to one's side.

I give my viewpoint because I am directly asked about it and some hardline Somali nationalists start trying to go after me in the most aggressive way possible but still want me to agree with their cause?

Is that really a good reflection on the particular cause? "You better agree with us or else!"- am I really supposed to think that side is the reasonable side?

"Mengistu strikes me as a quiet, serious, and sincere leader who is aware of the power of the masses. He is an intellectual personality who showed his wisdom on 3 February."

-Fidel Castro

Who do you think Fidel is going to feel sympathetic towards? A person who is rude and insulting; "you're a fake Cuban"- or a person who comes across as quiet, calm, intellectual?

Fidel's conclusion was this and I agree:

"I have made up my mind about Siad Barre, he is above all a chauvinist. Chauvinism is the most important factor in him."

Ethnic chauvinism. "Ends justifies the means". That is how I look at the cause in question. You can try to insult and try to use racism to get people to gang up on me but my viewpoint of the cause is question has definitely been moved in a negative direction. I see it as fanatical ethnic chauvinism. I'm not looking to listen to history from a person who is rude and insulting and pushes hostility against me based on race.

You could have taken advantage of the fact that I'm an ajnabi and looked it at as a way to better inform me and just calmly explained your viewpoint rather than just coming at me in an extremely aggressive way that seems very consistent with what might be associated with fanatical ethnic chauvinism.

Meanwhile, Ethiopians have been friendly and very polite to me and I can have a calm, pleasant conversation with them. From the standpoint if your own interests- I think your approach does nothing but make the Ethiopians seem a lot more appealing. I'm not against Somalis and I've had the pleasure of talking to some really cool Somalis but I definitely don't have a good image of what I perceive as hardline Somali nationalism.

Well let me tell you in short if I had one bullet left and was to use it on you are an Israeli.
Guess who I would send to the here after?



Hint: A xabashi sympathiser would be my first and formost target.

Isrealis didnt kill my people nor persecute them.But a xabashi did and worse all a xabashi sympathiser giving them credit.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Well let me tell you in short if I had one bullet left and was to use it on you are an Israeli.
Guess who I would send to the here after?



Hint: A xabashi sympathiser would be my first and formost target.

Isrealis didnt kill my people nor persecute them.But a xabashi did and worse all a xabashi sympathiser giving them credit.

You're free to your viewpoint and I'm free to mine. I believe in win-win cooperation. I don't believe in invading and killing people.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

You're free to your viewpoint and I'm free to mine. I believe in win-win cooperation. I don't believe in invading and killing people.

Yes you do because you support Ethiopia/habesha who invaded and have been killing my people.
You are such a hypocrite.
First of all the war didnt start in 1977.
Stop using Siyad barre or fidel castro.

Its like using the Israeli six day war when Arabs tried to invade Israel in 1967

Take your hypocricy somewhere else.
Its like saying nazis are good people because they have been polite to me what kind of shit reasoning is this.

 

[Aurelian]

Only when the Black Hebrew Israelites take power

don't they hate us, and say they gonna enslave us?
And on top of that, they calls us ethiopians

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

 

[Amazonian]

Imma Somali of African decent who is also a member of the Arab league do to political reasons. I have no reason to hate the Jews just because the Arabs do. If it means prospering my nation and forming allies across continents I have no issues with Israel.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Yes you do because you support Ethiopia/habesha who invaded and have been killing my people.
You are such a hypocrite.
First of all the war didnt start in 1977.
Stop using Siyad barre or fidel castro.

Its like using the Israeli six day war when Arabs tried to invade Israel in 1967

Take your hypocricy somewhere else.
Its like saying nazis are good people because they have been polite to me what kind of shit reasoning is this.

I'm not supporting anyone. I simply have the viewpoint that I don't agree with invading Ethiopia and Kenya.

That was my viewpoint and if you had wanted me to become convinced of your position, you could have simply explained your viewpoint instead of attacking me.

You yourself made it into some kind of aggressive thing rather than just explaining views.

I would have been fine with having a real discussion. But you come at me aggressive so of course why would I take your side?

You come charging at me- why would I take your side? I'm biased in favor of people I can have a conversation with. If I perceive you as being a type who is hostile and aggressive..... it's not going to make me in favor of you. You come at someone hostile and aggressive, you invite the same in return.

I'm a peaceful, quiet, calm person. I'm not in favor of hostile, aggressive types.

You say not to mention Siad Barre but.... well I simply don't care..... he goes and kills people in Ethiopia and then what? He does what he does to the Isaac. I perceive him as a butcher. You say not to talk about the Ogaden War but..... I look at it. The same one who invades Ethiopia... then later he's genociding the Isaac.... Fidel meets him, Barre is rude and insulting, Mengistu seems cool..... I think that kind of thing matters. If someone is rude, if someone is... pro-Israel.... I notice that kind of thing.

I don't believe in invading Ethiopia and Kenya to achieve Somaliweyn. What's wrong with me thinking that? Unless you believe in invading and killing people to achieve Somaliweyn... and then what??? will more people be killed as well? just killing and killing? and society collapses into chaos?

I'm not supporting anybody. I simply don't agree with invading Ethiopia and Kenya to achieve Somaliweyn and your response hasn't made me incline to change my mind. I have a right to my viewpoint and you could have opted for a calm discussion but you chose to go for an aggressive and hostile approach. You can't opt for that kind of approach and then expect people to buy into your views.

 

[Sloane Ranger]

@Omar del Sur don't try and make this an issue about mannerism. Somalis have a right to be under fellow Somali islamic governments. Why would you as a fellow muslim be against muslims having sovereignty over their own lands and people?

Because Siad Barre was annoying with Fidel Castro? Come on now. Fidel was an atheist who butchered his own people so was Mengistu. Why do their opinions outweigh Somalis suffering under the hands of Ethiopians and Kenyans.

I don't care about how polite or calm Ethiopians are about this issue. They are not suffering Somalis are. You are being a bully by dismissing peoples suffering then pretending to be shocked at the outrage your receiving in return.

@Django has family from that region and he is telling you the conditions they live under directly. Instead of emphasising you are dismissing him based on manners rather than morality.

You say you don't believe in killing and invasion but thats exactly what the Kenyans and Ethiopians did to maintain control in those regions. Win win co-operation doesn't exist if one side is being oppressed.

You can't expect the victims to be willing to kiss the hands of the oppressors in the interest of peace. You support an outright boycott of French goods because of their treatment of muslims. You support a boycott of Israel in support of Palestinians but somalis should be polite and co-operative to get their justice.

Lastly, I noticed that you were against the region in Ethiopia beng returned to Somalis as it could lead to other ethnicities demanding the same. You didn't have this opinion on Kenya though. You obviously favour Ethiopia in this regard, leading me to believe that it in fact for one reason alone..

 

[BetterDaysAhead]

don't they hate us, and say they gonna enslave us?
And on top of that, they calls us ethiopians

I was kidding sxb one called me a b¡tch ass hamite

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Omar del Sur don't try and make this an issue about mannerism. Somalis have a right to be under fellow Somali islamic governments. Why would you as a fellow muslim be against muslims having sovereignty over their own lands and people?

Because Siad Barre was annoying with Fidel Castro? Come on now. Fidel was an atheist who butchered his own people so was Mengistu. Why do their opinions outweigh Somalis suffering under the hands of Ethiopians and Kenyans.

I don't care about how polite or calm Ethiopians are about this issue. They are not suffering Somalis are. You are being a bully by dismissing peoples suffering then pretending to be shocked at the outrage your receiving in return.

I'm not necessarily in favor of Mengistu. I don't have any particular opinion when it comes to Mengistu.

Fidel Castro carries a lot of weight with me.

For me, Mengistu and Barre are the ajnabis. But the Cubans to me are like my cousins. I don't agree with Fidel on religion but Fidel Castro is a hero to me like he is to many others. I take his viewpoint seriously.

I don't claim that I am some expert. I'm looking at it from my viewpoint and what I say represents my viewpoint. Fidel Castro is much more familiar to me than Barre or Mengistu.

I don't claim that what I say represents ultimate truth. Just that it's my viewpoint. And for me, I take Fidel very seriously and I am more familiar with him than the other players. That is why for example I have a very Ogaden War-centric viewpoint.

I have a right to my viewpoint.

I am not denying atrocities against Somalis in Ethiopia or Kenya. I said earlier that I don't know about atrocities against Somalis in Kenya. I think there is way more as far as atrocities that I did not know about.

But what is the answer? To explain to me so I can learn or to come aggressively at me? You come aggressively at someone, it promotes for them to be defensive. I said previously that I don't think the way to discuss this is through a rhetorical boxing match.

I myself said earlier that I don't know about atrocities in Kenya but I could be uninformed. Since then, I think it does seem like there has been but honestly I don't know much.

But I was asked directly about my viewpoint so I tried to give an honest answer as to my viewpoint.

I don't deny atrocities against Somalis in Ethiopia and Kenya.

But would I really be right to say I agree with invading Ethiopia and Kenya? I don't agree with it and before I could I had better have a rock-solid basis for me to.

I just don't think that making the thing into a rhetorical boxing match is the correct approach. If you're wanting to inform someone about something, do you start swinging at them? You can have an intellectual discussion or you can swing at each other but you can't really do both.

 

[Sloane Ranger]

Why do you keep pretending to be an abused victim. Nobody insulted or threatened you. Criticising you for what you say is not a verbal boxing match. You are not under attack. Your ideas are. You have yet to fully address the points raised and keep making this about yourself.

Show me 1 quote were anyone has said they are raising an army and planning to attack Kenya and Ethiopia. You don't seem to hold that same energy for those countries that are doing this at this present moment.

This is disappointing to hear a fellow muslim side in favour of christians killing and occupying muslim territories. You are a hypocrite who only picks and chooses when muslims deserve solidarity.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Lastly, I noticed that you were against the region in Ethiopia beng returned to Somalis as it could lead to other ethnicities demanding the same. You didn't have this opinion on Kenya though. You obviously favour Ethiopia in this regard, leading me to believe that it in fact for one reason alone..

I'm not against Ogaden joining Somalia. I don't agree with armed invasion of the Ogaden. But at the same time, if the Somali case is strong enough that it represents stolen land and that it's like Palestine- then I could possibly change my viewpoint. But I would have to know it very well. I don't want to be unjust against either side.

Also, Ethiopia and Kenya are a different situation. I don't get the impression that Kenye is possibly on the verge of being the next Yugoslavia.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Why do you keep pretending to be an abused victim. Nobody insulted or threatened you. Criticising you for what you say is not a verbal boxing match. You are not under attack. Your ideas are. You have yet to fully address the points raised and keep making this about yourself.

Show me 1 quote were anyone has said they are raising an army and planning to attack Kenya and Ethiopia. You don't seem to hold that same energy for those countries that are doing this at this present moment.

This is disappointing to hear a fellow muslim side in favour of christians killing and occupying muslim territories. You are a hypocrite who only picks and chooses when muslims deserve solidarity.

Well if people don't believe in invading Ethiopia and Kenya then there is no disagreement. I'm fine with Somaliweyn in itself. I just don't agree with invading.

Is it occupied Muslim territory? Does it rightfully belong to Somalia?

Is it expansionism on the part of Somalia and unjust aggression against neighbors?

I don't really have a definite viewpoint.

Who is it that made this a personal thing about me? I didn't make this a personal thing about me..... this thread was about whether Muslim countries should move towards Israel and then it was made a personal thing about me. So if it's a personal thing about me and personal attack against me... or it's more intellectual discussion...... for me it is unclear whether it is one or the other. It was made a personal attack against me. It has been pushed a personal attack against me. So of course it is no intellectual discussion. I simply perceive attack against me and what naturally would a person do? Do you sympathize with who attacks you? I don't.

 

[Sloane Ranger]

Its obviously not expansionism on the part of Somalis when we are indigenous to the region and The Horn of Africa itself. Most Kenyas and some of of the Ethiopians today arrived as the product of Bantu and Semitic expansions from 2000 years ago.

How are Somalis being expansionist when our territories was given to our neighbours who continue to occupy that land?

What unjust aggression have they faced when 10s of 1000s are died at their hands? You keep making them out to be victims when they are vehemently upholding a colonial agenda to divide Somalis. They have zero rights to the region.

 

[Revolutionary]

Muslim countries are already close to gaalo countries in Europe and the U.S, so I dont see how Israel is any different.

I think its hypocritical to be like '' I dont want some political alliance with Israel because they are jews'', but do have political alliances with other gaalo countries that are mostly Christians , Sanab worshipers, or full of Atheist.

Difference is that they are occupying Muslim Palestinian territory, they have brutalized and oppressed them for decades on their own soil, they want Jerusalem as theirs, Masjid Aqsa is also there, it is a holy land and therefore we should not recognize their presence on Palestinian lands

 

[Omar del Sur]

Its obviously not expansionism on the part of Somalis when we are indigenous to the region and The Horn of Africa itself. Most Kenyas and some of of the Ethiopians today arrived as the product of Bantu and Semitic expansions from 2000 years ago.

How are Somalis being expansionist when our territories was given to our neighbours who continue to occupy that land?

I said I don't have a definite viewpoint.


"Is it occupied Muslim territory? Does it rightfully belong to Somalia?

Is it expansionism on the part of Somalia and unjust aggression against neighbors?

I don't really have a definite viewpoint."

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Halimo Supremist And I do not believe I am bullying anyone. This thread was about Israel and it was made about something else- but not by me. The thread was about Israel. I don't believe I am bullying anyone by making a thread about Israel and then a different topic is brought up.

 

[Username]

If it's beneficial, sure.

Just don't get on their bad side.