Sheikh sharif criticizes federalism
- Thread starter Chaseyourdreamzz
- Start date
Somalia is like the Holly Roman Empire, you have complete Sovereign states like Jubbaland, Puntland, Somaliland,
large parts of Jubbaland and some parts of Puntland have foreign agents occupying it, or wanting to occupy, akin to how Poland, Austria later and France would occupy parts of the holly roman empire
Jubbaland is like Hanover where their son was king of England and thus Hanover got massive help from the king george1, 2 and 3, Jubbaland receives massive help from Ogadens in Kenya and Ogadeniya in terms of man power and political help who have massive influence in Nairobi and Adis Ababa
Somaliland is akin to large parts of it literally breaking away and they can do absolutely nothing, akin to how large parts of the empire become Netherlands invaded by Spain, Austria, Italian city states etc
then the central regions of somalia is akin to German confederacy states with weak central holly roman emperor, chaos, invasions from European powers and economically dependent on a weak holly roman emperor
Puntland did nothing few months ago when Habar Gidir Massacred Leelkase for months nothing was done, heck deep down some MJ were mostly likely happy to have them weakened, akin to like when Germanic confederacy states would be invaded by Poland, Sweden, Austria, Denmark and the Holly Roman Empire would do nought
The Holly Roman Empire was neither holly, or Roman, or a unified state,
a is neither a state or a country, nether a unified state, We need a Bismarck that united Germany 360 states or Adams family that led Lichtenstein that led Germany to unification or Lichtenstein to survive centuries of wars and chaos with diplomacy
or we need to break away and kill this fake white men made country,
as an Ogaden from Jubbaland Kingdom, no one ever asked Ogaden/Absame if they wanted to join Soomalia in 1943, so should i care about Soomalia ?
this is why it failed deep down, no one ever asked any of the Kingdoms, clans, etc if they want to join a united somalia
When did HG “massacre” Leelkase? And why would we be happy to see them weakened?
Chaseyourdreamzz
VIP
Since when was LLK massacred
we don’t ask for help from anybody never haveReer casimaada unukaleh, Madaxtoyaada unukaleh, International community funds unukaleh are talking smh. The more these folks talk, the more we are heading towards conferdalism/Balkanization.
Itsnotthateasy
VIP
When have you ever seen HAG ever talking openly? They mostly just lol or don't say anything. No HAG would ever talk like that because there's no benefit in them doing that. Interclan conflict is being stirred up.
reer
VIP
somali governance will always have 4.5. because you gotta down every sub clan with a nonsense random kursi to stop their buuq. in the 60s there was a version of 4.5 similar to today. the only way to remove 4.5 is through dictatorship but even the kacaan would hand out seats in similar fashion and engage in a form of an upgraded version of 4.5 (madhibaan getting a high position).
somali society isnt like egyptian or levantine society where you can move up ranks just according to intelligence and political skill otherwise we would have had ethnic minority rulers in our history like salahudin or mamluks etc.
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The Current Federal system needs to go! i say yes to Federalism, but NO to the current Federalism. the Current Federal system is de facto along lines! and in society deeply fractured along clan lines, domination of some clans by others is unacceptable, and a key reason why Al Shabab exists! Al-Shabaab provides sanctuary for marginalised clans everywhere in Somalia. The rank-and-file of its fighters largely come from those dubbed as ‘minority clans’, although not minority in actual sense other than excluded from real power in both federal regime & mini-state levels. both the FMS system as it stands and the 4.5 system is unjust! and a key reason for instability! excerpt: "
The current armed conflicts in southern Somalia are partially prolonged by a flawed logic of power distribution between and among various competing clans and communities. The formula known as the 4.5 supposedly allocates four equal power positions among the four major clans: the Daarood, the Digil-Mirifle, the Dir, and the Hawiye, and half of that to a cluster of “minority” groups, the so-called “Others.”10 The system of 4.5, basically understood as four equal power-sharing dispensations, is heavily punctuated by the predominance of the Hawiye and Daarood political players; and it is widely
accepted that there is no place for the Isaaq, the Rahanweyn, and the Dir clans to assume the presidency or premier positions. Even when there have been slight alterations and leadership changes in
February 2017, the political culture in Mogadishu continues to be based
on power dispensation based on the 4.5 clan system. The current government
political players like their predecessors are only interested in retaining
power rather than sharing it with other competing political opponents. For a
long time, the tendency to appoint a loyalist from another clan to a minister,
only to demonstrate that the said clan were on board without necessarily
reflecting a real representation, has been a marked regurgitation in Somali
politics. From the outside, the 4.5 system seems balanced on clan level, but
in the inside the competition within subclans is intense and often develops
into an armed conflict. The posts of the presidency and the premiership
always filled by Hawiye and Daarood political actors are the most competitive
power positions. A senior political adviser to the Presidential Palace
confided to me that, when a Hawiye president assumes the presidency, the
Daarood political actors perceive the outcome as a threat to their future and
so is Hawiye when a Daarood president comes to the fore. As grievances against the political system in place are ignored, the road
is opened for armed conflict as the only means of weakening the government
to extend its authority outside the capital city. The pursuit of politics of
winner-takes-all played on zero-sum game leads to the growing insurgency
against the government. The reconfiguration of politics upon which political
players play to reassert their voice through Al-Shabaab rewrites the rules of
the past war field. Those who hold the grievances undermine the government
in retaliation for political marginalization by using various methods that
combine violent and nonviolent approaches. One extreme one is to provide
intelligence data to Al-Shabaab in carrying out deadly suicide attacks against
the government-held places, as evidenced by the attacks on the Villa Somalia,
Mogadishu airport and seaport, Liido Beach, SYL Hotel, Jasiira Hotel,
Central Hotel, Ambassador Hotel, Naasa Hablood 1 Hotel, Naasa Hablood 2
Hotel, Hotel Dayah, the CID Headquarters in Mogadishu, Banaadir Beach,
as well as Baydhabo, Gaalka’ayo, and Kismaayo.18 Some of these suicidal
attacks are facilitated by some within the government who feel excluded in real power. For instance, the government political players have attributed the
2015 Jasiira Hotel attack to a particular political player for facilitating the
attack and helping Al-Shabaab in launching it. The said person was publicly
named, an act that creates a further alienation rather than offering a political
solution.19 Unlike the Somali government, which blamed the hotel attacks
on individuals, the Kenyan government realized that, because of grievances
against its forces in southern Somalia, a certain Somali clan assisted
Al-Shabaab in massacring more than a hundred Kenyan soldiers in the Eel
Adde camp in January 2016 (Ombati 2016). Put it this way, although the implication for the accusation
marginalizes a whole clan rather than an individual political actor, it also
recognises the bulk of the problem—which is to say, clan-based grievances.
Al-Shabaab has gained new ground due to these unsettled grievances.20
Countless clans have allied themselves with Al-Shabaab in various methods
and many ways. Marginalized clans within the Dir, the Digil/Mirifle, the
Hawiye, and the Daarood have constantly contributed reinforcement fighters
to Al-Shabaab (HIS 2016).21 One senior government official privately stated that: “clan X and clan Y are Al-Shabaab and I don’t want their talk.”22 Such dismissive language prolongs the conflict and does not resolve the bulk of the problem. Even if some Al-Shabaab fighters do not have legitimate grievances and can be linked with radical extremism, they violently reverberate the grievances of marginalized communities. This explains why the bulk of Al-Shabaab foot soldiers come from the so-called minority clans and communities.23 As long as the political system used is a flawed clan-based system, those
who feel marginalized express their grievances through facilitating the
activities of the government’s enemy, Al-Shabaab. Most of Al-Shabaab’s
anti-government attacks are viewed as a form of articulation of grievance-based
political exclusion." Mohamed Haji Ingiriis
The current armed conflicts in southern Somalia are partially prolonged by a flawed logic of power distribution between and among various competing clans and communities. The formula known as the 4.5 supposedly allocates four equal power positions among the four major clans: the Daarood, the Digil-Mirifle, the Dir, and the Hawiye, and half of that to a cluster of “minority” groups, the so-called “Others.”10 The system of 4.5, basically understood as four equal power-sharing dispensations, is heavily punctuated by the predominance of the Hawiye and Daarood political players; and it is widely
accepted that there is no place for the Isaaq, the Rahanweyn, and the Dir clans to assume the presidency or premier positions. Even when there have been slight alterations and leadership changes in
February 2017, the political culture in Mogadishu continues to be based
on power dispensation based on the 4.5 clan system. The current government
political players like their predecessors are only interested in retaining
power rather than sharing it with other competing political opponents. For a
long time, the tendency to appoint a loyalist from another clan to a minister,
only to demonstrate that the said clan were on board without necessarily
reflecting a real representation, has been a marked regurgitation in Somali
politics. From the outside, the 4.5 system seems balanced on clan level, but
in the inside the competition within subclans is intense and often develops
into an armed conflict. The posts of the presidency and the premiership
always filled by Hawiye and Daarood political actors are the most competitive
power positions. A senior political adviser to the Presidential Palace
confided to me that, when a Hawiye president assumes the presidency, the
Daarood political actors perceive the outcome as a threat to their future and
so is Hawiye when a Daarood president comes to the fore. As grievances against the political system in place are ignored, the road
is opened for armed conflict as the only means of weakening the government
to extend its authority outside the capital city. The pursuit of politics of
winner-takes-all played on zero-sum game leads to the growing insurgency
against the government. The reconfiguration of politics upon which political
players play to reassert their voice through Al-Shabaab rewrites the rules of
the past war field. Those who hold the grievances undermine the government
in retaliation for political marginalization by using various methods that
combine violent and nonviolent approaches. One extreme one is to provide
intelligence data to Al-Shabaab in carrying out deadly suicide attacks against
the government-held places, as evidenced by the attacks on the Villa Somalia,
Mogadishu airport and seaport, Liido Beach, SYL Hotel, Jasiira Hotel,
Central Hotel, Ambassador Hotel, Naasa Hablood 1 Hotel, Naasa Hablood 2
Hotel, Hotel Dayah, the CID Headquarters in Mogadishu, Banaadir Beach,
as well as Baydhabo, Gaalka’ayo, and Kismaayo.18 Some of these suicidal
attacks are facilitated by some within the government who feel excluded in real power. For instance, the government political players have attributed the
2015 Jasiira Hotel attack to a particular political player for facilitating the
attack and helping Al-Shabaab in launching it. The said person was publicly
named, an act that creates a further alienation rather than offering a political
solution.19 Unlike the Somali government, which blamed the hotel attacks
on individuals, the Kenyan government realized that, because of grievances
against its forces in southern Somalia, a certain Somali clan assisted
Al-Shabaab in massacring more than a hundred Kenyan soldiers in the Eel
Adde camp in January 2016 (Ombati 2016). Put it this way, although the implication for the accusation
marginalizes a whole clan rather than an individual political actor, it also
recognises the bulk of the problem—which is to say, clan-based grievances.
Al-Shabaab has gained new ground due to these unsettled grievances.20
Countless clans have allied themselves with Al-Shabaab in various methods
and many ways. Marginalized clans within the Dir, the Digil/Mirifle, the
Hawiye, and the Daarood have constantly contributed reinforcement fighters
to Al-Shabaab (HIS 2016).21 One senior government official privately stated that: “clan X and clan Y are Al-Shabaab and I don’t want their talk.”22 Such dismissive language prolongs the conflict and does not resolve the bulk of the problem. Even if some Al-Shabaab fighters do not have legitimate grievances and can be linked with radical extremism, they violently reverberate the grievances of marginalized communities. This explains why the bulk of Al-Shabaab foot soldiers come from the so-called minority clans and communities.23 As long as the political system used is a flawed clan-based system, those
who feel marginalized express their grievances through facilitating the
activities of the government’s enemy, Al-Shabaab. Most of Al-Shabaab’s
anti-government attacks are viewed as a form of articulation of grievance-based
political exclusion." Mohamed Haji Ingiriis
Why is nobody mentioning the fact that the 4.5 system and federalism are both creations of the federal member states which mainly function as clan states. Southern Somalia and the fgs as a whole doesn't have that luxury since its composed of multiple clans.
Ultimately if you want a Somalia that moves past qabil then federalism has to go since it incentivesses a qabil mindset. The future of Somalia will never come from places somaliland,puntland,south-west state, jubbland. Which are really clan states masquerading as some enlightened from of governance.
Ultimately if you want a Somalia that moves past qabil then federalism has to go since it incentivesses a qabil mindset. The future of Somalia will never come from places somaliland,puntland,south-west state, jubbland. Which are really clan states masquerading as some enlightened from of governance.
tyrannicalmanager
pseudo-intellectual
But, Ali Samatar was by far the most competent Somali official of his time.
4.5 originated in Djibouti while federalism originated in Nairobi so it wouldn't be accurate to say they are creations of FMS but rather most FMS are a result of federalism.
For clannism to disappear FGS would have to completely reform with 4.5 getting removed as that is the main source of qabil influenced politics in the country. Thankfully foreign funding is running dry so this will be a good opportunity.
I used to be pro federalism and I partially am. But not this federalism where whenever the president of that state is upset he cuts ties with the fgs.
The federalism Somalia needs is a very weak one where the central government dominates. These federal states should deal with the local issues only, they need to stay out of international affairs.
The federal states should focus on building roads, schools hospitals collecting taxes, dealing with the unique needs of that state. Khalaas. Nothing more nothing less.
The federalism Somalia needs is a very weak one where the central government dominates. These federal states should deal with the local issues only, they need to stay out of international affairs.
The federal states should focus on building roads, schools hospitals collecting taxes, dealing with the unique needs of that state. Khalaas. Nothing more nothing less.
Hows that been working for KG?
Somalia doesn't have the governmental capacity to shift the course of their roadmap. Yall are radical thinkers without the rationale of our HDI. 4.5 and Federalism are stabilising factors until leadership that can placate the opportunity costs of such factors arise. The only alternative is an absolute xoogistan that can have everyone patterned with crafty measures in solving every clan dispute across the country for good. Good luck with that.
Somalia is larger then kgs. Somalis need to stop this my tuulo mentality and realise this is a country bigger then your tuulo.
But at the same time this uncontrollable federalism is also adding to the instability. When a whole federal state cuts ties with the fgs because of the federal government is not doing what they want, isn't that destabilising our country.
We need Farmaajo back. So he can dwfedaralise Somalia back.
Why on earth would anyone want this Somali government to be stable? If its stable if means FGS' corruption can continue. When I meant by "reform" is that of a complete toppling of the government as it doesn't actually sustain itself.
I asked you a question. How did submitting to a central authority go for KG?
