Separating the Genocide from the ictiraaf narrative from the

[Gadhwayne]

Thr genocide was commited by Afweyne and hid biggest fand were reer eastern Sool and other communities whose former territories are still occupied by beesha dhexe Soomaliland.

Most of the South were against Afweyne or neutral i.e. supporting SSDF/USC or irrelevant/peaceful like beesha dhexe KG and minorities

My ictoraafist brothers must not mimick haters who mock ictiraafism with waa nala xasuuqay waan goosanay never use this weak line in fkd

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My preference would be the patriotic majority in North imposing democracy and pro SNM narrative on agoonta wuqooyi and staying united with the South where pro SSDF/USC/SSDF narrative is imposed by the patriotic majority agoona koonfureed. Ictiraafism requires hiding unpatriotic acts of neighbors by blaming Somalia Italiana for the crimes of Afweeyne iyo agoontiisa

 

[Som]

I agree. It's pretty stupid that Somaliland blames every single reer Somalia for what happened when the entire country was revolting against Siad Barre.
From a logical point of view Somaliland should base it's claims on legal and strategical grounds. IC doesn't care if you got xasuuqed, you are not the first people on the planet to get xasuuqed and being massacred isn't grounds to get independence. Somaliland strategy should be to convince the west that ictiraaf benefits them and makes the region more stable but SL leaders are too incompetent and now with Lasanod every single last good argument for ictiraaf is destroyed

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Gadhwayne I found SL is ticking timebomb and can't convince the region or world it would be positive force for itself n region. SL as u know was founded in violence against Siyad and then against itself. It has used violence as a pre-text from it's beginning on itself and neighbors and then convening so-called peaceful assembly with the use of violence.

It has pursued aggressively the idea politics is decided thru the guns mentality not knowing the same approach will be used against it state to bring it down internally. Live by the gun, die by the gun is real. The other scary politics is their hatred of somalia which is conveniently used to keep internal unity, what if somalia is removed from the equation and your independent, what will keep you united internally? you can study any state who has used that approach and what happened to them when their boogeyman equation was gone like south sudan and north sudan, when north sudan wasn't their boogeyman anymore and they got independence, what happened? dad aan heeshish ahayn gudahooda is a huge problem especially if their unity is held by external factors.

Now say for example u do some-how survive internal turmoil if u get independence. Nations who are united on external enemies that still operate are usually nations that pursue instabilty worldwide or their region. Look how eritrea behaved who has similar founding as SL thru violence and force and they govern the same way and they support all sorts of fires regionally. Look at iran, north korea, all these regions founded by violence and nations who use the boogeyman 'external' threat to unify itself.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Gadhwayne globally study countries who use the external enemy equation for it's internal unity, please go study and what happens to them if they don't collapse internally when the external enemy is out of the equation. I agree with HSM philosophy 'somali heeshish ah dunida la heeshish' ah should be our goal. It isn't in our interest to repeat creating external enemies like we did under siyad with ethiopia and once that was out of the equation, it led to our own collapse.

This philosophy of an external enemy unifying your ppl no matter who practises it has bad future nation predictability.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Even when SSC is created as a new region, we will advice them to create a govt n social contract that keeps dhulbahante heeshish ah not create an admin on isaaq or mj or somali hate as that is dangerous unity and doesnt last anyways when the enemy is gone. Once they agree to that, they will pursue a peaceful policy of contributing to the federation of somalia to bring about somali heeshish ah. @Dharbash @Caaro

 

[Gadhwayne]

@Gadhwayne I found SL is ticking timebomb

No city is more of a ticking timebomb than Boosaaao which just had 2 wars

and can't convince the region or world it would be positive force for itself n region.

The world/region failed after being convinced that Cabdillahi Yuusuf was a positive force and they forced him to resign the world/region flipflops too much

SL as u know was founded in violence against Siyad and then against itself.

SNM were unionist. Garaadka eastern Sool issued the motion to repeal the 1960 law of union after fallout with CaliMahdi

It has pursued aggressively the idea politics is decided thru the guns mentality not knowing the same approach will be used against it state to bring it down internally. Live by the gun, die by the gun is real.

Democracy under Soomaliland is peaceful I think Boosaaso would be more peaceful if ictiraafists became unionist and they imposed democracy on your people

The other scary politics is their hatred of somalia which is conveniently used to keep internal unity, what if somalia is removed from the equation and your independent, what will keep you united internally?

What united beesha dhexe Soomaliland was the consensus approach of SNM and Afweyne's genocidal response. Beesha dhexe Soomaliland are more united than reer Bari who use ISIS/shabaab/American bombs/drones against each other

Now say for example u do some-how survive internal turmoil if u get independence.

The North is defacto independen and actually the former Migiurtinia province is also now defacto independent state of PL

Nations who are united on external enemies that still operate are usually nations that pursue instabilty worldwide or their region. Look how eritrea behaved who has similar founding as SL thru violence and force and they govern the same way and they support all sorts of fires regionally. Look at iran, north korea, all these regions founded by violence and nations who use the boogeyman 'external' threat to unify itself.

Beesha dhexe Soomaliland are united behind the concept of democratic/peaceful governance otherwise they would emulate reerBari and invite foreigners like American troops vs Sudanese commander of ISIS-Bari to attack rivals

This philosophy of an external enemy unifying your ppl no matter who practises it has bad future nation predictability.

There hasnt been a real threat ftom external enemy ever since General Caydiid chased capo/comrad/warlod Afweyne Barre who also commited crimes against humanity in northern Mudug before SSDF apololgized to him

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Gadhwayne ISIS is tiny presence in PL mountains, their tiny becuz their individuals who are trying to over-ride 'dad tashatay oo heeshish' ah, some outfit who goes into a small mountain with 20 followers isn't going to over-ride the peaceful assembly that created PL IN 98. PPL who follow or pursue those instability will be sidelined and attacked. Plus it's well known SL involvement in shabab in PL, plus this gives us proof their trying to create their narrative and pass it onto us hence being an unproductive member of the region let alone the world if recognized.

Democracy isn't peace it's how govts are elected it only advances 'freedom'', peaceful assembly to craft a constitution is mandatory. Every response u made was pretty much gutted and debunked becuz you want to impose your narrative while denying the real narrative in PL and hence your assessments will come out with holes. I didn't impose my narrative on SL, I collected it's history and presented how other regions with similar founding or similar equations(hate of external enemy) where they lead to.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Gadhwayne qori caradisa ayad ku dhisanteen, qori caradisa ayaad isku dishen, qori caradisa ayaad shir isku timadeen, qori caradisa baaad foreign policy ka dhigateen by destabilizing PL if u destabilize PL already u will do the same worldwide becuz ur not unified internally so u pursue violence for everyone else.

SL was created by the gun, SL used the gun to pursue political goals, SL used guns against itself, then u used it to create a constitutional assembly where ppl were held by force.

How do u deny u pursue political goals thru violence? how do u deny the well confirmed saying 'live by gun die by gun' you will collapse to the same founding principle.

 

[Padrino]

There was no genocide in the north. More people died in Baydhabo alone than the entire north.

 

[Gadhwayne]

@Gadhwayne qori caradisa ayad ku dhisanteen, qori caradisa ayaad isku dishen, qori caradisa ayaad shir isku timadeen, qori caradisa baaad foreign policy ka dhigateen by destabilizing PL if u destabilize PL already u will do the same worldwide becuz ur not unified internally so u pursue violence for everyone else.

I dont undetstand this part

SL was created by the gun, SL used the gun to pursue political goals, SL used guns against itself, then u used it to create a constitutional assembly where ppl were held by force.

How do u deny u pursue political goals thru violence? how do u deny the well confirmed saying 'live by gun die by gun' you will collapse to the same founding principle.

Nations are created by the gun. Im not in favor of disolving the union with Somalia Italiana but you have a weak arguement there also Cabdillahi Yuusuf forced used his bigger guns against your uncles to make sure Bari was under PL/Yuusuf instead of TNG/Cabdiqaasim so by your logic maybe tbis means Bari doesnt belong under PL ir PL must be dissolved

I agree. It's pretty stupid that Somaliland blames every single reer Somalia for what happened when the entire country was revolting against Siad Barre.
From a logical point of view Somaliland should base it's claims on legal and strategical grounds. IC doesn't care if you got xasuuqed, you are not the first people on the planet to get xasuuqed and being massacred isn't grounds to get independence. Somaliland strategy should be to convince the west that ictiraaf benefits them and makes the region more stable but SL leaders are too incompetent and now with Lasanod every single last good argument for ictiraaf is destroyed

The ictiraafist leadership understand/portray the The Genocide as part of a long list of Somalia Italiana crimes/violations against Soomaliland. This thread was just for uninformed/younger crowds both Northerners and Southerners/Wanlaweynistanis that the ictiraaf case doesnt rely on whether or not Afweyne Barre as well his orphans commited genocide in the North

There was no genocide in the north. More people died in Baydhabo alone than the entire north.

It doest matter whether there was a genocide the misguidrd ictiraaf case doesnt depend on genocide i.e. did Somaalia Italiana sign the 1960 Soomaliland Law of Union with Somalia Italiana which Somaalia Italiana has been violating since 1960

 

[Som]

I dont undetstand this part



Nations are created by the gun. Im not in favor of disolving the union with Somalia Italiana but you have a weak arguement there also Cabdillahi Yuusuf forced used his bigger guns against your uncles to make sure Bari was under PL/Yuusuf instead of TNG/Cabdiqaasim so by your logic maybe tbis means Bari doesnt belong under PL ir PL must be dissolved



The ictiraafist leadership understand/portray the The Genocide as part of a long list of Somalia Italiana crimes/violations against Soomaliland. This thread was just for uninformed/younger crowds both Northerners and Southerners/Wanlaweynistanis that the ictiraaf case doesnt rely on whether or not Afweyne Barre as well his orphans commited genocide in the North



It doest matter whether there was a genocide the misguidrd ictiraaf case doesnt depend on genocide i.e. did Somaalia Italiana sign the 1960 Soomaliland Law of Union with Somalia Italiana which Somaalia Italiana has been violating since 1960

Nah. I've listened to Edna Aden. Her arguments are mostly emotional stuff concerning xasuuq and how evil somalia is

 

[Farahslayer]

There was no genocide in the north. More people died in Baydhabo alone than the entire north.

Thing is Somalis are stupid. They use legal terms without understanding the meaning at all. Genocide isn’t about numbers but a process where a group of people are systematically scapegoated and villainized. The Kacaan government didn’t do that to any group of people, rather they used previous tribal rivalries to pit them against each other. That I’m itself is wrong but its subsequently what every Somali government has also done if not worse.

If anything the Kacaan government attempted to protect the rights of minority tribes. So using the genocide card will never work. Cadaans aren’t stupid and they don’t take that word lightly.

If anything, the somaliland government and people are closer to the first steps of genocide towards South somalis. The behaviour, abuse and scapegoating is the first steps.



https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf