Sabrina elba reveals her mother is a victim of fgm and almost died giving birth to her as a result

[Internet Nomad]

The Jews?
Why you don't acknowledge your faults? why it has to be someone else behind your failure?

Some of these guys think jews are like the boogeyman and behind every problem.

 

[Hamzza]

Female circumcision is wajib and mustahab

 

[Hamzza]

Female circumcision is wajib and mustahab

Why are you disliking my post @Angelina

Do you have a problem with this?

 

[Angelina]

Why are you disliking my post @Angelina

Do you have a problem with this?

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[Hamzza]

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No I'm not trolling Angelina Soma

It would've been more appropriate for you to dislike posts like this

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[Khaem]

For men, it is a must.

For women, allegedly it is not something that is a 'must'. Only ethnic groups with a history of pagan FGM, do this.

It's an ancient Cushitic practice, circumcision of women. Which is why it's done all over north east Africa. It's paganism.

 

[Gacmeey]

You completely misrepresented the first hadith. You are not well grounded in Islamic sources. The first hadith uses the word ashimmi. The word ashimmi has several meanings, including to massage with something soft like oil,” “to leave something raised,” “to kiss,” “to smell” or “to place one thing upon another.” people like yourself have mistranslated the word ashimmi to mean cutting a small part of the clitoris. There are several versions of the hadith you quoted and they were all classified as weak and there is a conflict in its meaning. Ashimmi has several meanings and cutting was not part of the prophet(PBUH) advice.

The first Hadith is weak and it wasn’t even my argument. I was just showcasing what ibn taymiyyah said about what is supposed to be cut which is to cut a small piece of the clitoral hood.This is not harmful as per the WHO which said in 1979:

With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.

The second hadith you quoted is authentic but completely misrepresented. The Hadith is found under the chapter on “tohara” which means ritual purification or cleanliness.

Misrepresented where? The Hadith is in كتاب الحيض not كتاب الطهارة.

The message in the Hadith is that it is obligatory to take a ritual bath after sexual intercourse.

Yes that the main message but the last part of the hadith is what we are interested in so that’s our focus.

Ulamas have said the terms used in the Hadith, khitaanani (literally, the two male circumcisions) , il-tiqaa (literally meeting) and mass (literally touching), are majaaz (metaphors). Whereby khitaanani refers metaphorically to the male and female sexual organs, but using the description of the one that is required to be circumcised i.e., the male organ, and both il-tiqaa and mass metaphorically refer to sexual intercourse. Here the words “meeting/touching” must be understood in the context of Islamic jurisprudence.

Just so I know we are looking at the same Hadith I’ll write it here,


وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الأَنْصَارِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامُ بْنُ حَسَّانَ، حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ هِلاَلٍ، عَنْ أَبِي بُرْدَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي مُوسَى الأَشْعَرِيِّ، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى، - وَهَذَا حَدِيثُهُ - حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامٌ، عَنْ حُمَيْدِ بْنِ هِلاَلٍ، قَالَ - وَلاَ أَعْلَمُهُ إِلاَّ عَنْ أَبِي بُرْدَةَ، - عَنْ أَبِي مُوسَى، قَالَ اخْتَلَفَ فِي ذَلِكَ رَهْطٌ مِنَ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالأَنْصَارِ فَقَالَ الأَنْصَارِيُّونَ لاَ يَجِبُ الْغُسْلُ إِلاَّ مِنَ الدَّفْقِ أَوْ مِنَ الْمَاءِ ‏.‏ وَقَالَ الْمُهَاجِرُونَ بَلْ إِذَا خَالَطَ فَقَدْ وَجَبَ الْغُسْلُ ‏.‏ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو مُوسَى فَأَنَا أَشْفِيكُمْ مِنْ ذَلِكَ ‏.‏ فَقُمْتُ فَاسْتَأْذَنْتُ عَلَى عَائِشَةَ فَأُذِنَ لِي فَقُلْتُ لَهَا يَا أُمَّاهْ - أَوْ يَا أُمَّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ - إِنِّي أُرِيدُ أَنْ أَسْأَلَكِ عَنْ شَىْءٍ وَإِنِّي أَسْتَحْيِيكِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَتْ لاَ تَسْتَحْيِي أَنْ تَسْأَلَنِي عَمَّا كُنْتَ سَائِلاً عَنْهُ أُمَّكَ الَّتِي وَلَدَتْكَ فَإِنَّمَا أَنَا أُمُّكَ ‏.‏ قُلْتُ فَمَا يُوجِبُ الْغُسْلَ قَالَتْ عَلَى الْخَبِيرِ سَقَطْتَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ إِذَا جَلَسَ بَيْنَ شُعَبِهَا الأَرْبَعِ وَمَسَّ الْخِتَانُ الْخِتَانَ فَقَدْ وَجَبَ الْغُسْلُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Sahih Muslim 349

The key part of hadith is the highlighted bit which says if the two khitan touch or مس as is used in the hadith, ghusul becomes wajib. The two khitan touching is a way of saying if intercourse occurs. Imam nawawi explains this in his commentary of sahih muslim where instead of using the circumcised parts or الختان he directly replaced it with genitals and explained that it means penetration not the mere touching of the genitals.

Furthermore, the term khitaan in Arabic strictly refers to male circumcision and FGM/C is referred to as khifaadh as earlier explained. The term khitaanani, though in dual, is not evidence for FGM/C because the use of one word or quality to refer to two different persons or things is an acceptable Arabic language.

What? Mate I don’t even know what you are saying here. When referring to the circumcised part it is acceptable to use khitaan regardless of gender. Moreover, the context in which the hadith is in makes it clear that it is talking about the genitals of the opposite sex, both being circumcised. Crazy how for 1400 years people were debating on whether it is obligatory or merely mubaah but you want to tell us this hadith isn’t even referring to female circumcision

 

[Angelina]

No I'm not trolling Angelina Soma

It would've been more appropriate for you to dislike posts like this

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[Hamzza]

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Female circumcision is a part of Islam by Ijma of the Fuqaha as narrated by Ibn Hazm, Ibn Qayyim and others.

واتفقوا أن من ختن ابنه فقد أصاب واتفقوا على إباحة الختان للنساء
مراتب الإجماع لابن حزم ص ١٥٧
لا خلاف في استحبابه للأنثى، واختلف في وجوبه تحفة المولود لابن القيم​

Leaving of something which is part of the Deen because some people abuse it is a doomed principle which is devoid of any Hikmah. You know Angelina some girls wear Hijab and at the same time engage in degenerate activities, do we need to totally ban Hijab because these people abuse it??


Also, your whole post is a deflection from the discussion we were having. Your refusal to condemn @𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒 shows your true character and further confirms the allegations I made against you last week

 

[Angelina]

Female circumcision is a part of Islam by Ijma of the Fuqaha as narrated by Ibn Hazm, Ibn Qayyim and others.

واتفقوا أن من ختن ابنه فقد أصاب واتفقوا على إباحة الختان للنساء
مراتب الإجماع لابن حزم ص ١٥٧
لا خلاف في استحبابه للأنثى، واختلف في وجوبه تحفة المولود لابن القيم​

Leaving of something which is part of the Deen because some people abuse it is a doomed principle which is devoid of any Hikmah. You know Angelina some girls wear Hijab and at the same time engage in degenerate activities, do we need to totally ban Hijab because these people abuse it??

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Also, your whole post is a deflection from the discussion we were having. Your refusal to condemn @𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒 shows your true character and further confirms the allegations I made against you last week

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[techsamatar]

I'm new here, but I want to express a sincere observation. Female genital mutilation (FGM) is primarily driven, encouraged, and practiced by women, and this is an undeniable reality. Somali men typically have limited influence or involvement in decisions regarding FGM. Even if you inquire with your grandmother or other older women in the community, they can attest to this fact. Personally, my own mother can confirm this, and my uncle, while mostly occupied with his import and export business, explicitly instructed his wife not to subject his daughters to FGM, but it was still performed by his wife and her mother.

To illustrate further, my brother recently visited Somalia and engaged in conversations with some women in rural areas ('badiyo'). He attempted to convey that FGM serves no real purpose and can, in fact, complicate childbirth, but they responded by ridiculing him. They argued that no uncircumcised girl could come close to them, viewing it as a matter of shame. Their reasoning behind FGM is to reduce a girl's sexual activity and ensure she remains modest and without shame.

I have relatives who have undergone FGM, and they are leading fulfilling lives with families of their own. However, their mothers have acknowledged that it was their decision, and the fathers never supported it.

I am curious about why certain Somali individuals in Western contexts, who appear to seek validation from non-Somali individuals, contribute to a negative image of Somalis. It seems that behaviors observed in other ethnicities and countries are often attributed uniquely to Somali culture. Additionally, there seems to be an effort to align with certain feminist movements that are perceived as receiving support from specific sources, which, in turn, can be seen as an attempt to provide these movements with the means to criticize men, even though female-led practices are historically rooted in these behaviors.

 

[Hamzza]

You’re comparing the incomparable. Hijab is wajib, female circumcision isn’t. Secondly, Somalis have never been practicing the circumcision that is allowed in Islam, only the pagan version. So what now? People can’t even get access to people that are even educated enough about the female anatomy so you want people still continue butchering their daughters

You’re incredibly ignorant on the topic of Somalis and FGM. So I suggest you stop.

Well, it's wajib for us Somalis. You know Ijma and Qiyas are valid sources of legislation in Islam, right?

الختان واجب على الرجال والنساء عندنا (المجموع: 1: 164)

The circumcision is wajib upon men and women according to us Shafi'is((Majmu’ of Imam An-Nawawi 1:164)

My analogy is valid and still stands. You can't rubbish something that's part of the religion because some Juhal people abuse it no no.

I’m not going to condemn her since the only circumsition that Somalis practice is the pagan one. We’ve been Muslim for one thousand years, but still we chop organs. I’ll condemn her the day Somalis do it properly. Until then, people can keep their scissors to themselves.

Your true character is to literally troll. You do it in the Arab threads, ones about husbands sexually abusing their wives and now this. You do it for the shock factor as you know people aren’t educated enough. I see right through you.

You're not even going to condemn her for calling the scholars extremists? @𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒 is a more honest version of you

 

[Angelina]

Well, it's wajib for us Somalis. You know Ijma and Qiyas are valid sources of legislation in Islam, right?

الختان واجب على الرجال والنساء عندنا (المجموع: 1: 164)

The circumcision is wajib upon men and women according to us Shafi'is((Majmu’ of Imam An-Nawawi 1:164)

My analogy is valid and still stands. You can't rubbish something that's part of the religion because some Juhal people abuse it no no.

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You're not even going to condemn her for calling the scholars extremists? @𐒁𐒚𐒒𐒂𐒘𐒂𐒗 𐒎𐒚𐒗𐒗𐒒 is a more honest version of you

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[Hamzza]

I don’t care. People can’t do it unless they’re going to do it properly with a skilled or medically trained person who knows the female anatomy. The only groups who do it besides the Far East Muslims, do a Pagan version. They’re never done the Sunnah version. All of them go too far and cause lifelong medical harm

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Nah, not really? Do you see me condemning Malaysian scholars or Malaysians doing it? I think that should tell you I have no issues with it in principle.

What you fail to understand that even with the Sunnah versions Somalis have been doing back home as of late, isn’t even Islamically acceptable as they cut bits of the clitoris rather than the hood which causes damages. Even people calling for the Sunnah version don’t even know what it really entails, so no, I don’t care. Cry if you want.

Im as honest as they come.

Yes, People calling for the Sunnah and the scholars don't know what they are calling for, only @Angelina and her feminazi legion can understand the ahadith of the prophet ﷺ properly.

Every day you engage with me, you expose what a disgusting hypocrite you are.

 

[Angelina]

I was present when my young sister was circumcised, it was as per the Sunnah and Inshalaah I plan to do the same with my daughters. Your generalizations to support your far-left ideas are baseless and everyone can confirm it.

In find it very telling that you go out of your way to take my posts out of spoiler. So now I did the same to you. Let everyone see your delusional lies.

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Yes, People calling for the Sunnah and the scholars don't know what they are calling for, only @Angelina and her feminazi legion can understand the ahadith of the prophet ﷺ properly.

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Every day you engage with me, you expose what a disgusting hypocrite you are.

LOL, and everyday I engage with you, you expose what a trolling nutcase you are. Go and create an Arab supremacy thread.

 

[Hamzza]

In find it very telling that you go out of your way to take my posts out of spoiler. So now I did the same to you. Let everyone see your delusional lies.

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LOL, and everyday I engage with you, you expose what a trolling nutcase you are. Go and create an Arab supremacy thread.

I will end the discussion here as it's now clear to everyone that you're not alright in the head.

Also, I had no intention of exposing the posts you put under spoiler, it's that I don't actually know how to quote spoilers. You can use the search post and see my replies to posts under spoilers.

 

[Xoxoxo]

A cousin of mine died because off an infection, she couldn’t properly bleed during her menstruation thanks to it. It’s really a horrible practice.

 

[HabarSteven12]

The first Hadith is weak and it wasn’t even my argument. I was just showcasing what ibn taymiyyah said about what is supposed to be cut which is to cut a small piece of the clitoral hood.This is not harmful as per the WHO which said in 1979:

With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.



Misrepresented where? The Hadith is in كتاب الحيض not كتاب الطهارة.


Yes that the main message but the last part of the hadith is what we are interested in so that’s our focus.


Just so I know we are looking at the same Hadith I’ll write it here,


وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الأَنْصَارِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامُ بْنُ حَسَّانَ، حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ هِلاَلٍ، عَنْ أَبِي بُرْدَةَ، عَنْ أَبِي مُوسَى الأَشْعَرِيِّ، ح وَحَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الأَعْلَى، - وَهَذَا حَدِيثُهُ - حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامٌ، عَنْ حُمَيْدِ بْنِ هِلاَلٍ، قَالَ - وَلاَ أَعْلَمُهُ إِلاَّ عَنْ أَبِي بُرْدَةَ، - عَنْ أَبِي مُوسَى، قَالَ اخْتَلَفَ فِي ذَلِكَ رَهْطٌ مِنَ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالأَنْصَارِ فَقَالَ الأَنْصَارِيُّونَ لاَ يَجِبُ الْغُسْلُ إِلاَّ مِنَ الدَّفْقِ أَوْ مِنَ الْمَاءِ ‏.‏ وَقَالَ الْمُهَاجِرُونَ بَلْ إِذَا خَالَطَ فَقَدْ وَجَبَ الْغُسْلُ ‏.‏ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو مُوسَى فَأَنَا أَشْفِيكُمْ مِنْ ذَلِكَ ‏.‏ فَقُمْتُ فَاسْتَأْذَنْتُ عَلَى عَائِشَةَ فَأُذِنَ لِي فَقُلْتُ لَهَا يَا أُمَّاهْ - أَوْ يَا أُمَّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ - إِنِّي أُرِيدُ أَنْ أَسْأَلَكِ عَنْ شَىْءٍ وَإِنِّي أَسْتَحْيِيكِ ‏.‏ فَقَالَتْ لاَ تَسْتَحْيِي أَنْ تَسْأَلَنِي عَمَّا كُنْتَ سَائِلاً عَنْهُ أُمَّكَ الَّتِي وَلَدَتْكَ فَإِنَّمَا أَنَا أُمُّكَ ‏.‏ قُلْتُ فَمَا يُوجِبُ الْغُسْلَ قَالَتْ عَلَى الْخَبِيرِ سَقَطْتَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ إِذَا جَلَسَ بَيْنَ شُعَبِهَا الأَرْبَعِ وَمَسَّ الْخِتَانُ الْخِتَانَ فَقَدْ وَجَبَ الْغُسْلُ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Sahih Muslim 349

The key part of hadith is the highlighted bit which says if the two khitan touch or مس as is used in the hadith, ghusul becomes wajib. The two khitan touching is a way of saying if intercourse occurs. Imam nawawi explains this in his commentary of sahih muslim where instead of using the circumcised parts or الختان he directly replaced it with genitals and explained that it means penetration not the mere touching of the genitals.


What? Mate I don’t even know what you are saying here. When referring to the circumcised part it is acceptable to use khitaan regardless of gender. Moreover, the context in which the hadith is in makes it clear that it is talking about the genitals of the opposite sex, both being circumcised. Crazy how for 1400 years people were debating on whether it is obligatory or merely mubaah but you want to tell us this hadith isn’t even referring to female circumcision

Ibn taymiyyah's statement has no foundational basis in Islam. You are treating a medieval scholar's statement as divine revelation. Many medieval scholars in the past believed the earth was flat and attributed their conclusion to the Quran. On the contrary, the Quran indicates the earth has a spherical shape. Are you implying their statements were correct? Scholars are not immune from committing errors and mistakes. Ibn Taymiyah's statements shouldn't be considered to be the final and absolute understanding of Islam. Ibn Taymiyah's statement was most likely influenced by his culture and surroundings at the time.

So-called sunnah female circumcision has no justification or backing in Islam. Sunnah means the traditions and way of life of the Prophet Mohamed(PBUH). There isn't a single hadith in which the Prophet(PBUH) ordered his wives or daughters to be circumcised. If there is any evidence that the the prophet(PBUH) actually did practice female circumcision or it was practiced during his lifetime and he approved of it, then the practice becomes a Sunnah, a tradition to be followed by Muslims either as an obligation or an option.

The hadith you quoted cannot be a definitive proof in support of female circumcision, because the use of the term “two circumcised parts” in the Arabic language does not necessarily mean that both the male and female are circumcised. Arabic usage at times names two things by the most prominent or well-known part. For example, it is understood that the words walidan or abawan (literally, two fathers) refers to the father and mother; and qamaran (2 moons) refers to the moon and sun. The linguistic ambiguity of the hadith, and the fact that the hadith does not address directly the issue of female circumcision renders this hadith as a doubtful source for a ruling on female circumcision.

 

[Gacmeey]

Ibn taymiyyah's statement has no foundational basis in Islam. You are treating a medieval scholar's statement as divine revelation. Many medieval scholars in the past believed the earth was flat and attributed their conclusion to the Quran. On the contrary, the Quran indicates the earth has a spherical shape. Are you implying their statements were correct? Scholars are not immune from committing errors and mistakes. Ibn Taymiyah's statements shouldn't be considered to be the final and absolute understanding of Islam. Ibn Taymiyah's statement was most likely influenced by his culture and surroundings at the time.

I think you are misunderstanding why I quoted ibn taymiyyah’s statement. I did it to show what the circumcision entails and what kind of circumcision I am talking about. Ibn taymiyyah’s statement alone might not be a hujjah, but when every faqiih agrees upon it, that accounts for something.

So-called sunnah female circumcision has no justification or backing in Islam. Sunnah means the traditions and way of life of the Prophet Mohamed(PBUH). There isn't a single hadith in which the Prophet(PBUH) ordered his wives or daughters to be circumcised. If there is any evidence that the the prophet(PBUH) actually did practice female circumcision or it was practiced during his lifetime and he approved of it, then the practice becomes a Sunnah, a tradition to be followed by Muslims either as an obligation or an option.

Of course there is justification. The hadith from Umm Attiyah is classified as sahih by albani and others but regadhere are also many other narrations of the sahabah doing it:


An old woman from Kufa, the grandmother of 'Ali ibn Ghurab, reported that Umm al-Muhajir said, "I was captured with some girls from Byzantium. 'Uthman offered us Islam, but only myself and one other girl accepted Islam. 'Uthman said, 'Go and circumcise them and purify them.'"

حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، قَالَ‏:‏ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْوَاحِدِ قَالَ‏:‏ حَدَّثَتْنَا عَجُوزٌ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكُوفَةِ جَدَّةُ عَلِيِّ بْنِ غُرَابٍ قَالَتْ‏:‏ حَدَّثَتْنِي أُمُّ الْمُهَاجِرِ قَالَتْ‏:‏ سُبِيتُ فِي جَوَارِي مِنَ الرُّومِ، فَعَرَضَ عَلَيْنَا عُثْمَانُ الإِسْلاَمَ، فَلَمْ يُسْلِمْ مِنَّا غَيْرِي وَغَيْرُ أُخْرَى، فَقَالَ عُثْمَانُ‏:‏ اذْهَبُوا فَاخْفِضُوهُمَا، وَطَهِّرُوهُمَا‏.‏

Adab Al-Mufrad of Al-Bukhari, Book 1, Hadith 1245, Graded: Saḥίḥ

Umm 'Alqama related that when the daughters of 'A'isha's brother were circumcised, 'A'isha was asked, "Shall we call someone to amuse them?" "Yes," she replied. 'Adi was sent for and he came to them. 'A'isha passed by the room and saw him singing and shaking his head in rapture - and he had a large head of hair. 'Uff!' she exclaimed, 'A shaytan! Get him out! Get him out!'"

حَدَّثَنَا أَصْبَغُ قَالَ‏:‏ أَخْبَرَنِي ابْنُ وَهْبٍ قَالَ‏:‏ أَخْبَرَنِي عَمْرٌو، أَنَّ بُكَيْرًا حَدَّثَهُ، أَنَّ أُمَّ عَلْقَمَةَ أَخْبَرَتْهُ، أَنَّ بَنَاتَ أَخِي عَائِشَةَ اخْتُتِنَّ، فَقِيلَ لِعَائِشَةَ‏:‏ أَلاَ نَدْعُو لَهُنَّ مَنْ يُلْهِيهِنَّ‏؟‏ قَالَتْ‏:‏ بَلَى‏.‏ فَأَرْسَلْتُ إِلَى عَدِيٍّ فَأَتَاهُنَّ، فَمَرَّتْ عَائِشَةُ فِي الْبَيْتِ فَرَأَتْهُ يَتَغَنَّى وَيُحَرِّكُ رَأْسَهُ طَرَبًا، وَكَانَ ذَا شَعْرٍ كَثِيرٍ، فَقَالَتْ‏:‏ أُفٍّ، شَيْطَانٌ، أَخْرِجُوهُ، أَخْرِجُوهُ‏.‏

Adab Al-Mufradof Al-Bukhari Book 1, Hadith 1247 Graded: Saḥίḥ)

There’s a reason no classical scholar has disputed whether female circumcision is at the very least mustahab.

The hadith you quoted cannot be a definitive proof in support of female circumcision, because the use of the term “two circumcised parts” in the Arabic language does not necessarily mean that both the male and female are circumcised. Arabic usage at times names two things by the most prominent or well-known part. For example, it is understood that the words walidan or abawan (literally, two fathers) refers to the father and mother; and qamaran (2 moons) refers to the moon and sun. The linguistic ambiguity of the hadith, and the fact that the hadith does not address directly the issue of female circumcision renders this hadith as a doubtful source for a ruling on female circumcision.

Yes sure, nahwa wise you are correct but not logically. The hadith clearly states if a circumcised part meets a circumcised part, ghusul becomes wajib. What other circumcised parts are there that would come together and require ghusul other than that of a male and a female?

 

[Unicorn]

Men are usually neutral to this. Its typically moms and female relatives/neighbors who are organizing it. You can imagine why rape victims in Somalia usually say they cant walk or move.

When I was growing up I remember how secretive the moms were about this stuff. I only knew who was getting sent to the gulag because I would eavesdrop.
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People in the cities do this aswell. Somalis have even brought it to Nairobi Ive spoken to plenty of families who brought their family to Nairobi from abroad just for FGM on their daughters.

Neutral??? Lool the men who started this practice and tell others they dont want to marry an uncut women are neutral ive seen this excuse a lot. Just because women are the ones doing the procedure does not mean men are not for it and pushing it on their daughters