Questions:

Alexis

Haplogroup T activist.
1-What chances are there, that Somalis could carry Non E-V32 clades of E-M35?

2- If yes, what percentage would you give?

3-Do you know, any Somalis that have tested Non E-32?
It truly depends on clans. If you're Dir, there are little chances of having anything other than T-L208.
If you're Isaaq (but not Habar Awal), you're highly likely to get T too, unless you are Habr Awal. In that case, it is still a bit confusing as to what is the ratio of E-V32 to T-L208 but I'd say you're highly likely to get E-V32 here.

If you're any other type of somali, chances are high you'll get E-V32. The most frequent non-E-V32 Haplogroup after T-L208 in Somalis is J1. It is then closely followed by other E3b subclades. Statistically, very very very few Somalis get anything other than these. However some very odd South Asian and Eurasian haplotypes clan be found in the very hinterland of the Horn. There are also very very very very few somalis that have tested positive for Subsaharan lineages.

I personally am Isaaq, HA, and got T-L208.
 

sophisticate

Wistful Wanderlust
VIP
It truly depends on clans. If you're Dir, there are little chances of having anything other than T-L208.
If you're Isaaq (but not Habar Awal), you're highly likely to get T too, unless you are Habr Awal. In that case, it is still a bit confusing as to what is the ratio of E-V32 to T-L208 but I'd say you're highly likely to get E-V32 here.

If you're any other type of somali, chances are high you'll get E-V32. The most frequent non-E-V32 Haplogroup after T-L208 in Somalis is J1. It is then closely followed by other E3b subclades. Statistically, very very very few Somalis get anything other than these. However some very odd South Asian and Eurasian haplotypes clan be found in the very hinterland of the Horn. There are also very very very very few somalis that have tested positive for Subsaharan lineages.

I personally am Isaaq, HA, and got T-L208.
It's because you're a sheegato, clearly (no shame in that). Most likely Samaroon in origin judging by where you're from and your haplo is uncharacteristic among the HA tested, thus far (unless you have data to suggest otherwise). It may serve you well to piece together oral stories/accounts about your specific subclan's antecedents to uncover the truth.
 
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It truly depends on clans. If you're Dir, there are little chances of having anything other than T-L208.
If you're Isaaq (but not Habar Awal), you're highly likely to get T too, unless you are Habr Awal. In that case, it is still a bit confusing as to what is the ratio of E-V32 to T-L208 but I'd say you're highly likely to get E-V32 here.

If you're any other type of somali, chances are high you'll get E-V32. The most frequent non-E-V32 Haplogroup after T-L208 in Somalis is J1. It is then closely followed by other E3b subclades. Statistically, very very very few Somalis get anything other than these. However some very odd South Asian and Eurasian haplotypes clan be found in the very hinterland of the Horn. There are also very very very very few somalis that have tested positive for Subsaharan lineages.

I personally am Isaaq, HA, and got T-L208.
Thank bro, I do know of Ethnic-Somalis being Majority E-V32/T-L208 and J1.
 
It's because you're a sheegato, clearly (no shame in that). Most likely Samaroon in origin judging by where you're from and your haplo is uncharacteristic among the HA tested, thus far (unless you have data to suggest otherwise). It may serve you well to piece together oral stories/accounts about your specific subclan's antecedents to uncover the truth.
Lol you're making a lot of baseless assumptions there. First of all, we don't know the ratio of T-M184 to E1b1b HAs there are, it might be the former is higher.

Secondly, the only T-M184 carrying Somalis who've done a Yfull deep subclade test are two GX and one Southern Dir. The GX have a TMRCA of about 750 ybp. While the GX samples have a TMRCA with Dir of about 1900 ybp. This proves that Isaaq most likely had a TMRCA of about 750-900 ybp and was a distinct clan. I'm going to hypothesise that the T-M184 Habr Magaadle + HJ were a real clan and picked up a few E1b1b stragglers along the way. It just worked out somehow that the majority of the E1b1b minorities joined HA, who were less picky compared to GX who were more exclusive.

Check it out:

T-Y45591

Thirdly, why assume it's the HA who is the Sheegato and not the Gadabursi? Seems like your being very biased.:drakewtf:
 
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sophisticate

Wistful Wanderlust
VIP
Lol you're making a lot of baseless assumptions there. First of all, we don't know the ratio of T-M184 to E1b1b HAs there are, it might be the former is higher.

Secondly, the only T-M184 carrying Somalis who've done a Yfull deep subclade test are two GX and one Southern Dir. The GX have a TMRCA of about 750 ybp. While the GX samples have a TMRCA with Dir of about 1900 ybp. This proves that Isaaq most likely had a TMRCA of about 750-900 ybp and was a distinct clan. I'm going to hypothesise that the T-M184 Habr Magaadle + HJ were a real clan and picked up a few E1b1b stragglers along the way. It just worked out somehow that the majority of the E1b1b minorities joined HA, who were less picky compared to GX who were more exclusive.

Check it out:

T-Y45591

Thirdly, why assume it's the HA who is the Sheegato and not the Gadabursi? Seems like your being very biased.:drakewtf:
I see. Anyway, it has more to do with recent history and lore + where this fellow resides. Let me provide some quotes from a previous thread to get you up to speed.

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If you'd like me to figure out details about his specific clan (more myopically) I could but what's the probability of him self-qarxising. Unlikely. So this is and will continue to remain mere speculation. You're smart, I said most likely. Not incontrovertibly true. And when I used the term clearly it was more to be sensational. :)

I'm aware of some cases of breaking off of actual small 'granular' branches of Samaroon that joined nearby clans (sheegato) either because of 1) internal fissure from grievances (being smaller than others they weren't treated quite well and might have gone elsewhere) or what's more likely (2) famine or possible conflict with others (reducing their numbers). Somalis actually don't mind accepting new recruits especially under extenuating circumstances. So, its not a totally unheard of or far-fetched idea. Recent additions to clans are even talked about. Its sometimes known by the base clan that they were an incorporation.

As far as I know HA do not have a structured system of keeping track of sheegads unlike Samaroon/Gadabuursi. Correct me if I am wrong? And the small sample of tested Samaroon are turning out to be all T, thus far. But then again these are from major sub clans which are numerically robust within Samaroon. It's still too soon to tell.

Could be another Dir but we know who his sub-clan (which was mentioned in some previous thread) live near to. And I see nothing wrong in bringing up the possibility of being formerly Samaroon as a point of conjecture. Seems slightly more plausible than Cissa and Southern Dir.
If you are so offended you can claim him as a lost GX or other T possessing Issaq clan but from what I've gathered his specific sub doesn't live near you. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Also, don't get in your feelings walaal. I just want to know if the lore matches up with reality. Its not what you'd call reliable but it would be interesting to explore.
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Odkac WRLD

Crown Prince of the Beesha.
I see. Anyway, it has more to do with recent history and lore + where this fellow resides. If you'd like me to figure out details about his specific clan I could but what's the probability of him self-qarxising. Unlikely. So this is mere speculation. You're smart, I said most likely. Not incontrovertibly.

I'm aware of some cases of breaking off of actual small brances of Samaroon that joined nearby clans (sheegato) either because of 1) internal grievances (being smaller than others they weren't treated quite well and might have gone elsewhere or (2) faminine or possible conflict. Somes actually don't mind accepting new recruits. Its not totally unheard of.

As I know HA do not have a system of keeping track of sheegads unlike Samaroon. Correct me if I am wrong.

Also, don't get in your feelings walaal. I just want to know if the lore matches up with reality.
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Brutal.
 

Alexis

Haplogroup T activist.
It's because you're a sheegato, clearly (no shame in that). Most likely Samaroon in origin judging by where you're from and your haplo is uncharacteristic among the HA tested, thus far (unless you have data to suggest otherwise). It may serve you well to piece together oral stories/accounts about your specific subclan's antecedents to uncover the truth.
Did FTDNA's Y-37 str test and I came back with T-M70 as a predicted Haplogroup. All my matches (n=6) are Isaaq (HY,HJ... no other HA T-M70 bearer has done the test so far). I matched with all the Isaaqs that have partaken in the FTDNA Somali Project, except the 2 that have tested with Y-12 (insufficient data). I don't match with the Gadabursi that has tested with Big Y 111 str. This says it all to me lol.
I get that it is easy for people to assume this, and I thought about it too, but let's not forget all other Isaaq branches are heavily T-L208. HA being the only outlier is a major warning as to how to interpret it.

Can some of its subclans be of legit Isaaq descent that's been outnumbered by incorporated members ? or is HA a whole other clan that's been incorporated ?
If the first proposition is true, which seems more plausible to me, then there will be more and more HA T-L208 bearers and it would seem obvious to believe it. Although the second proposition is also believable.
Inshallah I'll upgrade to Big Y one day so I'll be able to upload my results to Y-Full and get a clearer picture of the confusing situation here.
So the clear answer to your post is, no, I am not a Samaroon "sheegato" lol.
 

sophisticate

Wistful Wanderlust
VIP
Did FTDNA's Y-37 str test and I came back with T-M70 as a predicted Haplogroup. All my matches (n=6) are Isaaq (HY,HJ... no other HA T-M70 bearer has done the test so far). I matched with all the Isaaqs that have partaken in the FTDNA Somali Project, except the 2 that have tested with Y-12 (insufficient data). I don't match with the Gadabursi that has tested with Big Y 111 str. This says it all to me lol.
I get that it is easy for people to assume this, and I thought about it too, but let's not forget all other Isaaq branches are heavily T-L208. HA being the only outlier is a major warning as to how to interpret it.

Can some of its subclass be of legit Isaaq descent that's been outnumbered by incorporated members ? or is HA a whole other clan that's been incorporated ?
If the first proposition is true, which seems more plausible to me, then there will be more and more HA T-L208 bearers and it would seem obvious to believe it. Although the second proposition is also believable.

So the clear answer to your post is, no, I am not a Samaroon "sheegato" lol.
Finally, you gave me an answer. It took you weeks. I expected an expeditious reply from our forum geneticist. So I guess that means common decent among Issaqs possessing T1a and more distal relations with other Dir clans i.e. Gadabuursi and Cissa possessing the haplogroup. Interesting. When would you speculate Northern Dirs and Issaqs with T1a split?
 

Alexis

Haplogroup T activist.
Finally, you gave me an answer. It took you weeks. I expected an expeditious reply from our forum geneticist. So I guess that means common decent among Issaqs possessing T1a and more distal relations with other Dir clans i.e. Gadabuursi and Cissa possessing the haplogroup. Interesting. When would you speculate Northern Dirs and Issaqs with T1a split?
What exactly took me weeks ? idgi.
Idk about that precisely. I'd personally just stick with the TMRCAs as given by Y-Full. We don't have a clear TMRCA for the Isaaq/Samaroon and Cissa split but the general Isaaq/Dir split would be around less than 1kybp I guess ???
 

sophisticate

Wistful Wanderlust
VIP
What exactly took me weeks ? idgi.
Idk about that precisely. I'd personally just stick with the TMRCAs as given by Y-Full. We don't have a clear TMRCA for the Isaaq/Samaroon and Cissa split but the general Isaaq/Dir split would be around less than 1kybp I guess ???
I asked you in your old thread. Nevermind. I guess we'll get more clarity once there's a larger sample of full Y tests. I'll try to convince some of my male relatives to get it done. Thank you.
 

Alexis

Haplogroup T activist.
I asked you in your old thread. Nevermind. I guess we'll get more clarity once there's a larger sample of full Y tests. I'll try to convince some of my male relatives to get it done. Thank you.
My bad, I didn’t notice. I also only got my results back last month.
Are you HA ?
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Moderator
1-What chances are there, that Somalis could carry Non E-V32 clades of E-M35?

2- If yes, what percentage would you give?

3-Do you know, any Somalis that have tested Non E-32?
Low probability, but possible. E-V16, E-M123, E-V6, E-M293, E-V22 have been confirmed in non-outlier ethnic Somalis. As for figures? We can't really say.

There are also some with E-M81, but they are slight outliers and I suspect that one came within the past 800 years to the Horn and is not ancient there.
 

Bohol

Staff Member
Moderator
@Alexis could be any of the dozens other T carrying communities in the western regions (Toljecel, Madigan & Gurgure both being Dir) not necessarily Gadabursi. Gadabursi are not the only T carrying community in the western regions nor the only Dir ones that neighbor SM, there is a lot of smaller Dir groups living in Gabiley district along with the Isaaq T1a Toljecel who live in Dacarta district of Gabiley.
 

sophisticate

Wistful Wanderlust
VIP
@Alexis could be any of the dozens other T carrying communities in the western regions (Toljecel, Madigan & Gurgure both being Dir) not necessarily Gadabursi. Gadabursi are not the only T carrying community in the western regions nor the only Dir ones that neighbor SM, there is a lot of smaller Dir groups living in Gabiley district and the Isaaq Toljecel who live in Dacarta district of Gabiley.
It was a guess. Nothing more.

So, tell us more about the demographics. Since you are very familar. I'm curious as I'm not very familiar.
 

Bohol

Staff Member
Moderator
It was a guess. Nothing more.

So, tell us more about the demographics. Since you are very familar. I'm curious as I'm not very familiar.

Well it was a bad guess. Those 3 groups are the ones that carry T1a to my knowledge in Gabiley district, there could be others.
 

sophisticate

Wistful Wanderlust
VIP
Well it was a bad guess. Those 3 groups are the ones that carry T1a to my knowledge in Gabiley district, there could be others.
Cool. I'm just basing it on the law of large numbers. Sacad Musse are the largest population in Gabiley the second most populous is Gadabuursi. There are other DIrs but wasn't aware Issaq (Toljecel) lived there (assumed them to be an Eastern dwelling clan). I know Akisho live there too. But did not know others like Gurgura were there, I thought they were entirely located in the Somali Galbeed. Correct me if I'm wrong?
 

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