Opinion Puntites Should Hold A Referendum On Seccession

I think it's about time we hold a referendum to see what our locals really want. I think this federalism is being brought to us from top-down approach and we haven't really gouged our locals from a bottom up approach if they really want secession from Somalia. I say we propose the following political solutions, which may satisfy our ardent unionist while keeping the secessionist types also engaged. They think Federalism was the answer between our unionist vs secessionist population, but as we can see a good idea can be hijacked by rogue individuals in Mogadishu, who loot and pillage anything that beneficial.

I propose either one of the following models should be adopted by Puntland, because our federalism idea is very 'vague' and the SFG constitution isn't clear nor official and this allows spoilers to twist or misinterpret or play around at the national level, which has kept our nation constantly at political deadlocks, especially when there is a new govt, we don't know if it's going to be another 4 years wasted with a centralist leaning candidate like Farmajo or if it will be a joyous Federalist leaning candidate. We rely to much on the politician we elect(madax ka nool) and not rely on frameworks or models that we can pass thru successive leaders to ensure political stability between the regions and center.

I think the following model will work for Puntites.

1. Dual Track Policy. This was a farole era Somali policy term from 2009-2014. It allowed Puntland to be considered separate from the south in terms of political, economical, military, and all aspects of governance. It allowed Puntland to sign it's own deals bilaterally with countries and organizations without needing federal govt approval. It was a really good policy but short lived because when Hassan Sheikh came, he began the 'centralist' movement and started to tear apart the dual track.

2. Secession with a 'conditional' clause. When we say Secession from Somalia, ppl assume SL policy. No. There is different types of secession, SL secession waa mid iskisa iska goostay, they live in a grey area now as @Lordilord knows. I don't suggest we follow this path, it will hurt us more then benefit us.

The other thing about SL secession problem, it may cause Puntland to fracture within itself like the al-itihaad days or like the 1995 wars of SL between Abdirahman Tuur(hy) vs Cigaal and Jeegaan, who literally fought over the idea of secession. I don't' want to see this outcome in PL.

Maybe we can tie a condition that Puntland will only re-join Somali Federation when the south has completely secured the south, has working institutions that are reliable and approved by the international community(This is important) if it's not approved by the international community as reliable institutions, why would we sacrifice what we have now and join a shit-fest? The other conditions can include the south must reach a bare minimum of development mile-stones that PL requires to see in the south before any talks of a federation. When the southie has something to protect, it's far easier to negiotate on federation because he has a 'stake' is the idea, but currently, we are talking to paper based regional govts who are not functioning on the ground, so there is nothing for them to protect, they are more susceptible to being spoilers or joining spoilers from Mogadishu.

By ensuring we have secessionist clauses, this allows Puntland to operate independently without disturbing our locals and creating a unionist vs secessionist environment. We can re-assure the unionist, we will re-join Somalia at a later date when the south has gotten it's act together, while we can appease our local secessionists types that PL is completely independent of the south and can function as a nation state.

We should also get the Federal govt and other regional govts to sign this new status for PL for the sake of Somalinimo, it is unfair to hold hostage other regions who are ahead of you, let them go and say we will catch up at a later date when we get our act together is far more somali-nimo to me then, sitting there and waiting for the south which can mean literally waiting decade after decade.

If either of the following policies be it dual-track or secession(conditional) are implemented, it will guarantee long-term political stability between the south and PL. They can carry on in the south without interference or political obstacles from PL, and PL can carry out it's own function without any interference from the SFG. A Somali govt that is reflective of the ground reality is needed, right now they throw us all into this 'coalition of regional states' vs the 'SFG' Which is incorrect in my book, the regional states are paper based, the federal govt itself is paper based and the only functioning entity is PL.
 

Karim

باسمك اللهم
VIP
@DR OSMAN you know nothing of Puntites back home if you actually think they'd vote for a secession. It would be great to secede from this tragic country but the locals won't support it
 
I'm 100% in favor of PL Independence, even if the south miraculously became stable. Which I don't think it will ever happen. We'll never see eye to eye with Xamar. PL is wasting its time to be perfectly honest with you. I've been a pro PL Independence even when A/Y AUN was president of Somalia. Because I understand the sad reality called Somalia.
 
@DR OSMAN you know nothing of Puntites back home if you actually think they'd vote a secession. It would be great to secede from this tragic country but the locals won't support it
That's why I clearly said a secession with clauses, read it properly and u may understand what I mean. U can convince the locals that PL will be a nation state and independent and will re-join Somalia only on the conditions that south has reached political, economical, institutional, and security maturity. We can convince them, why would you want to sit there, living in some grey area tied to the south who can't even travel freely in their land, why would the locals want to be tied to that region. We just need to impose on each region of Somalia a 'Political status', that is reflective of what the ground is.
 
@DR OSMAN you know nothing of Puntites back home if you actually think they'd vote for a secession. It would be great to secede from this tragic country but the locals won't support it
It's sad that our folks support a failed system that wouldn't hesitate to wipe us off the face of the Earth had it had the power to do so. One thing I like about reer Hargaysa is they will never trust their enemies or those who have ill will towards them, nor want to be part of the failed system again.
 
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That's why I clearly said a secession with clauses, read it properly and u may understand what I mean. U can convince the locals that PL will be a nation state and independent and will re-join Somalia only on the conditions that south has reached political, economical, institutional, and security maturity. We can convince them, why would you want to sit there, living in some grey area tied to the south who can't even travel freely in their land, why would the locals want to be tied to that region. We just need to impose on each region of Somalia a 'Political status', that is reflective of what the ground is.
Why rejoin the south?
Once you go, you go. There's no returning. Now, we can have diplomatic ties, economic trade, and even security pact with them.
 

Karim

باسمك اللهم
VIP
That's why I clearly said a secession with clauses, read it properly and u may understand what I mean. U can convince the locals that PL will be a nation state and independent and will re-join Somalia only on the conditions that south has reached political, economical, institutional, and security maturity. We can convince them, why would you want to sit there, living in some grey area tied to the south who can't even travel freely in their land, why would the locals want to be tied to that region. We just need to impose on each region of Somalia a 'Political status', that is reflective of what the ground is.
They won't support any secession with or without clauses. I'm well acquainted with the psyche of Puntites back home, they think of themselves as hardcore nationalists and wouldn't hesitate to call you treacherous traitor if you even gossip about secession. That's the reality on the ground mate, our politicians are more practical than the ignorant masses though and would gladly declare secession but they'd be lambasted and crucified by the locals.
 
They won't support any secession with or without clauses. I'm well acquainted with the psyche of Puntites back home, they think of themselves as hardcore nationalists and wouldn't hesitate to call you treacherous traitor if you even gossip about secession. That's the reality on the ground mate, our politicians are more practical than the ignorant masses though and would gladly declare secession but they'd be lambasted and crucified by the locals.
Very stupid mentality. Smh, I wish we had a bit of I door mentality.
 
Why rejoin the south?
Once you go, you go. There's no returning. Now, we can have diplomatic ties, economic trade, and even security pact with them.
The idea Once u go, u go isn't true!!!! u unfortunately become like SL which has learned the hard way it has to negotiate with Somalia, or u end up just regionally isolating and remain in a grey area where no nation or company will deal with you for fear of breaking international law.

In politics u need to convince people of your idea and by just bringing your side of the argument and stopping there, will only lead to what SL has got for 30 years. There is international law that has to be followed and under that law, Somalia territorial integrity is protected. That's why I say we should have a middle system where we can be independent untill such time the south has something to offer that is better then what we have already.
 
They won't support any secession with or without clauses. I'm well acquainted with the psyche of Puntites back home, they think of themselves as hardcore nationalists and wouldn't hesitate to call you treacherous traitor if you even gossip about secession. That's the reality on the ground mate, our politicians are more practical than the ignorant masses though and would gladly declare secession but they'd be lambasted and crucified by the locals.
So your saying even a middle solution or temporary secession isn't workable in PL? I don't see how the unionist would complain if PL was given a nation state status and it will hand-over it's soveriegnity on the condition marki koonfurta ay la timaado dawlad shaqanayso illa heer tuulo, degmo, magaalo, gobol oo weliba way inay haysata accreditation from beesha calamka si loo hubiyo inay dhulkooda ka jira amni, haykal dawladeed, horumar, iyo deganansho siyasadeed oo laysku halayn karo oo hos timado rule of law not madax ka nool'.
 
The idea Once u go, u go isn't true!!!! u unfortunately become like SL which has learned the hard way it has to negotiate with Somalia, or u end up just regionally isolating and remain in a grey area where no nation or company will deal with you for fear of breaking international law.

In politics u need to convince people of your idea and by just bringing your side of the argument and stopping there, will only lead to what SL has got for 30 years. There is international law that has to be followed and under that law, Somalia territorial integrity is protected. That's why I say we should have a middle system where we can be independent untill such time the south has something to offer that is better then what we have already.
I meant an Independent Puntland State with international recognition, not unrecognized region. I don't think in modern history there's been an independent Nation that returned to the country it broke away from.
 
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I meant an Independent Puntland State with international recognition, not unrecognized region. I don't think in modern history there's been an independent Nation that returned to the country it broke away from.
America broke into two states and re-joined after a civil war. Somalia can balkanize and fix it's regions first before discussing a federation. It's like Australia, each region had something before federation of australian states and they simply harmonized what is federal and state powers, it's much easier negiotating when you have something then when you have nothing like the south who brings nothing to the table to negiotate on, they stuck in a security bubble since 2004. It's nearly 20 years waryaa they haven't achieved security and political stability, this is a huge problem that we are still sitting there and trying to fix it when we should distance ourselves.
 
America broke into two states and re-joined after a civil war. Somalia can balkanize and fix it's regions first before discussing a federation. It's like Australia, each region had something before federation of australian states and they simply harmonized what is federal and state powers, it's much easier negiotating when you have something then when you have nothing like the south who brings nothing to the table to negiotate on, they stuck in a security bubble since 2004. It's nearly 20 years waryaa they haven't achieved security and political stability, this is a huge problem that we are still sitting there and trying to fix it when we should distance ourselves.
The Confederate State of America was an unrecognized state. I'm talking about a fully independent Nation with international recognition. Anyway, peace out Doc. Excellent discussion.
 

Karim

باسمك اللهم
VIP
So your saying even a middle solution or temporary secession isn't workable in PL? I don't see how the unionist would complain if PL was given a nation state status and it will hand-over it's soveriegnity on the condition marki koonfurta ay la timaado dawlad shaqanayso illa heer tuulo, degmo, magaalo, gobol oo weliba way inay haysata accreditation from beesha calamka si loo hubiyo inay dhulkooda ka jira amni, haykal dawladeed, horumar, iyo deganansho siyasadeed oo laysku halayn karo oo hos timado rule of law not madax ka nool'.
The thing is, you need a general referendum before declaring secession and the probability of secessionists winning majority vote is slim. The population would overwhelmingly vote for the Union and that would be the end of your case. That's the sad reality on the ground at this moment.
 
The thing is, you need a general referendum before declaring secession and the probability of secessionists winning majority vote is slim. The population would overwhelmingly vote for the Union and that would be the end of your case. That's the sad reality on the ground at this moment.
Very sad.
 

Jiron

Midnimadeenu Waa Guusha Qaraanka
VIP
The people of Somalia are way more patriotic than the diaspora who live in complete fantasy with full stomach, 9-5 job, ice cream and coffee in the afternoon and karaoke Fridays. Meanwhile our cousins back in Somalia are struggling with dignity and always have the big picture in mind :)
 

Jablibax

Aqilka beesha osman mohamud Sspot
VIP
The thing is, you need a general referendum before declaring secession and the probability of secessionists winning majority vote is slim. The population would overwhelmingly vote for the Union and that would be the end of your case. That's the sad reality on the ground at this moment.
We need to brainwashed them like how Somaliland brainwash thier people
chrisfreshhah.png
 

Apophis

Daludug Above all
VIP
It will take time to change the mind frame of our people. As @Karim said, majority will vote to remain in this nightmare currently. That's why i hope there is Puntland secessionist leaning party that advocates for independence or at a minimum confederation. It wont be popular now, but over time it will gain more followers and eventually become the party that leads PL. Sort of like the SNP in Scotland. 20 years ago, they were a fringe party with labour winning majority of seats in Scotland but look now. I believe most scots will vote for independence if they had a second referendum now.
 

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