Punishing Rape

[Removed]

As you know Rape cases have been resurfaced by the hundreds right now so naturally people started to argue over who’s innocent and whos guilty I would like to start off with what is enough evidence for you to believe someone did it? As for women what evidence would be enough to prove a man was guilty for you and do you believe that evidence would be a fair amount to prove you being a Pedophile?

Aside from that you have people going around claiming that it is all slander and that these women have no evidence(4 witnesses) and are all lying. From what I have understood in Islamic law the victim’s testimony counts as one witness already even besides that if you look at Islamic law the only time 4 witnesses is needed is for the ‘Hadd’ which is essentially either lashes or the death penalty and 2 witnesses is whats needed if the girl was abducted.

4 witnesses is not a requirement for punishments outside of that ‘Hadd’ however, this can be determined by a judge from using other methods namely more modern methods to prove without any heavy doubt that the accused is guilty of the crime.

I really really hate to do the centrist “I am the middle guy” trope but there really is extremities on both sides and it is even more profound amongst women due to the fact this is an emotional topic for many they will go as far as believing bot accounts made just minutes prior to the “expose” they can’t even verify the gender but they say to “believe women”?!

Lastly I remind you to think about the questions above what would it take to believe that those men are rapists and is that a standard you would be happy with if it was you on the other end?

 

[Radical]

I'd like to start by saying nobody should EVER base their entire decision or judgment solely on the fact that they share a gender/race/whatever with someone, but let's keep in mind that the reverse can also occur just as often

Some men do carry predisposed assumptions regarding the opposite gender, for instance when they claim all of those women on Twitter are just doing it for attention... devaluing the legitimacy of those who are genuine, which is very disheartening towards the actual victims

There are also women who have predisposed biases against men, of which they blindly carry their pitchfork towards the slightest hint of an allegation, this behavior is also immensely problematic as it has potential to damage an innocent person's livelihood,
but I do see the motivation on this one, the Somali culture is a bit of a patriachy to put it lightly so women do need to stand up for each other.

Now the actions and beliefs of these two groups creates barrier between them. One that gets expanded by each and every insult/joke they throw at each other. It can only expand, never decrease unless both groups are willing to compromise. We've seen it with qabilism.










Now for my actual thoughts on rape itself (copied from a comment I made yesterday)

RAPE is a very difficult crime to prove, either way. So now there’s a risk to anyone who accuses of rape, honest or not, that they end up being chastised. So you run the risk of punishing innocent victims.

RAPE is one of (if not the most) under reported crimes (example: UK Home Office states that 90% don't come forward) allowing rapists to get away with it time and time again. The risk of not being able to prove it, and then being punished, would discourage victims from coming forward even more. Rape victims already feel violated, humiliated or even ashamed, do you think you women would try to get justice at the risk of personal stigma or being punished, or just try to forget it and move on?

Yes, false rape accusations ruin lives. And the people who knowingly, intentionally, make those accusations with the goal of ruining people’s lives are absolute shaydaamo and 100% deserve punishment. And yet it's hard to punish them due to the sheer complexity of the cases, it's difficult and expensive for any legal system to provide concrete evidence
Don't even get me started on male rape victims!

I believe we should focus more on the prevention of rape/sexual assault instead of punishment, not blaming the victim each time and creating a healthy environment where it's easy for women to come out AND without damaging the reputation of men if proving wrong would be a perfect start.

 

[Misil]

Can tell you're a Dhahiri 4 witnesses ain't needed eh?

 

[Removed]

I'd like to start by saying nobody should EVER base their entire decision or judgment solely on the fact that they share a gender/race/whatever with someone, but let's keep in mind that the reverse can also occur just as often

Some men do carry predisposed assumptions regarding the opposite gender, for instance when they claim all of those women on Twitter are just doing it for attention... devaluing the legitimacy of those who are genuine, which is very disheartening towards the actual victims

There are also women who have predisposed biases against men, of which they blindly carry their pitchfork towards the slightest hint of an allegation, this behavior is also immensely problematic as it has potential to damage an innocent person's livelihood,
but I do see the motivation on this one, the Somali culture is a bit of a patriachy to put it lightly so women do need to stand up for each other.

Now the actions and beliefs of these two groups creates barrier between them. One that gets expanded by each and every insult/joke they throw at each other. It can only expand, never decrease unless both groups are willing to compromise. We've seen it with qabilism.










Now for my actual thoughts on rape itself (copied from a comment I made yesterday)

RAPE is a very difficult crime to prove, either way. So now there’s a risk to anyone who accuses of rape, honest or not, that they end up being chastised. So you run the risk of punishing innocent victims.

RAPE is one of (if not the most) under reported crimes (example: UK Home Office states that 90% don't come forward) allowing rapists to get away with it time and time again. The risk of not being able to prove it, and then being punished, would discourage victims from coming forward even more. Rape victims already feel violated, humiliated or even ashamed, do you think you women would try to get justice at the risk of personal stigma or being punished, or just try to forget it and move on?

Yes, false rape accusations ruin lives. And the people who knowingly, intentionally, make those accusations with the goal of ruining people’s lives are absolute shaydaamo and 100% deserve punishment. And yet it's hard to punish them due to the sheer complexity of the cases, it's difficult and expensive for any legal system to provide concrete evidence
Don't even get me started on male rape victims!

I believe we should focus more on the prevention of rape/sexual assault instead of punishment, not blaming the victim each time and creating a healthy environment where it's easy for women to come out AND without damaging the reputation of men if proving wrong would be a perfect start.

Prevent is better than a cure Rape should be demonized but the accused shouldn’t be demonized merely because of a tweet from an anon account. You can’t say that because it will come off as “victim blaming” and “rape apologist” before you know it a couple dozen 17 year old girls and the guys who have a crush on them will be calling you a rapist. Twitter particularly black girl twitter and white male twitter is filled with cancerous echo chambers that is completely incapable of understanding. That entire site is memes and gifs being thrown at eachother for the best one liner.

Can tell you're a Dhahiri 4 witnesses ain't needed eh?

This isn’t a dhahiri view only, this is stuff you can find on Islamqa I am sure of it.

Dhahiri madhab is underground in this era nobody calls themselves Dhahiri but everyone quotes their scholars its the future

 

[Royalflush]

firstly rape is a subcategory of zina- coercive zina and therefore carries the same category of punishment as zina- hadd punishment. the rapist- if married will be stoned to death and if unmarried will receive 100 lashes and will be expelled from the land for a year.
In addition, the rapist is subject to thehadd punishment for zina, even if the rape was not carried out at knifepoint or gunpoint. If the use of a weapon was threatened, then he is amuharib, and is to be subjected to the haddpunishment described in the verse in which Allah says (The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter) (Al-Ma’idah 5:33).