Proto-East Cushitic: Not Aliens just Pastoralists.

[Midas]

Globalization of genetic diversity might not have affected the EAF as much as other populations, likely because of its isolation from the northern part of the continent by eco-geographical obstacles (e.g., the Ethiopian Plateau and the swamps of the Sudd), physiological constraints (humidity, food plants, lack of salt, disease) and, perhaps most importantly, cultural barriers."

This is an incredibly funny statement they make when you realize that in the beginning of the paper they instead say.

 

[Midas]

I mean look at how nonsensical this claim is

camels were introduced into east africa through the Sinai several hundred years before they were introduced into north africa with the coming of islam. Yet the east african camel is completely genetically different ?

not sure where you going with this. You really think Somalis are linguistically to Borana/afar than Rendille?

No but I think its obvious something else is going on since the borana inhabit fhe the traditional oromo homeland and yet the rendile who are small group of tens of thsoaunds are somehow lingustically closer.

This leads me to think that it might be possible these guys are just some proto somali pouplation who migrated elsewhere and thats the cause of the lingustic divergence and not them being some different language that split before Somali was a thing.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

No im not dismissing it based on "vibes" . Also what exactly is this evidence for a purely "semetic lexicon" your talking about? Its all based on the assumption that camels were domesticated in Arabia.

Ciao.

 

[Midas]

Its obvious that if you begin with the assumption that camels must of come from the Arabian penisula you will try to explain everything that doesnt conform to your model as an anomaly. This section below is the perfect example of this. They notice that eaf camels are seperate from all other camels but attribute it to "cross continental trading"

 

[Riftvalley]

I mean look at how nonsensical this claim is

View attachment 373768

camels were introduced into east africa through the Sinai several hundred years before they were introduced into north africa with the coming of islam. Yet the east african camel is completely genetically different ?

No but I think its obvious something else is going on since the borana inhabit fhe the traditional oromo homeland and yet the rendile who are small group of tens of thsoaunds are somehow lingustically closer.

This leads me to think that it might be possible these guys are just some proto somali pouplation who migrated elsewhere and thats the cause of the lingustic divergence and not them being some different language that split before Somali was a thing.

Boranas in Kenya do not inhabit the traditional Oromo homeland. They migrated to the area and forced many groups to leave their Homelands or become assimilated (Gabbra, some Garres etc)Every group remembers their migrations. They even forced the Baiso and Sidamas to leave some areas of their homeland. Some of the Arbore and other groups found deep in southern Ethiopia were probably forced there by the Oromo migrations. We are seeing something similar in modernity in real time with Somali speakers shifting to Oromo languages.

yes, i think you can style Rendille as kind of proto Somali population. However, those other groups like Arbore and dasanach can’t be classed as that. Their languages are too distant to be classed as that. I don’t think there are any conspiracies with the language stuff though. Afar and Oromo were probably confined to smaller homelands for thousands of years while those omo tana speakers pastoralists quickly spread across eastern Ethiopia, southern Somalia and northern Kenya. The land was probably sparsely populated when they got there so they spread pretty fast and small population retained their dialects until the great migrations of oromos.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Boranas in Kenya do not inhabit the traditional Oromo homeland. They migrated to the area and forced many groups to leave their Homelands or become assimilated (Gabbra, some Garres etc)Every group remembers their migrations. They even forced the Baiso and Sidamas to leave some areas of their homeland. Some of the Arbore and other groups found deep in southern Ethiopia were probably forced there by the Oromo migrations. We are seeing something similar in modernity in real time with Somali speakers shifting to Oromo languages.

yes, i think you can style Rendille as kind of proto Somali population. However, those other groups like Arbore and dasanach can’t be classed as that. Their languages are too distant to be classed as that. I don’t think there are any conspiracies with the language stuff though. Afar and Oromo were probably confined to smaller homelands for thousands of years while those omo tana speakers pastoralists quickly spread across eastern Ethiopia, southern Somalia and northern Kenya. The land was probably sparsely populated when they got there so they spread pretty fast and small population retained their dialects until the great migrations of oromos.

You’re arguing with someone who refuses to read correctly, I suggest you just leave it there as well sxb

 

[Midas]

Boranas in Kenya do not inhabit the traditional Oromo homeland. They migrated to the area and forced many groups to leave their Homelands or become assimilated (Gabbra, some Garres etc)Every group remembers their migrations. They even forced the Baiso and Sidamas to leave some areas of their homeland. Some of the Arbore and other groups found deep in southern Ethiopia were probably forced there by the Oromo migrations. We are seeing something similar in modernity in real time with Somali speakers shifting to Oromo languages.

yes, i think you can style Rendille as kind of proto Somali population. However, those other groups like Arbore and dasanach can’t be classed as that. Their languages are too distant to be classed as that. I don’t think there are any conspiracies with the language stuff though. Afar and Oromo were probably confined to smaller homelands for thousands of years while those omo tana speakers pastoralists quickly spread across eastern Ethiopia, southern Somalia and northern Kenya. The land was probably sparsely populated when they got there so they spread pretty fast and small population retained their dialects until the great migrations of oromos.

My thing is that most of these groups are incredibly tiny with the largest being the dasanach who are a few tens of thosuands of people . Its also obvious that these groups are all heavily admixed with whatever other people they live with.

So to then use these handful of groups like the arbore, Baiso, and dasanach. To reconstruct the evolution of somali as a language seems extremely misguided.

 

[NidarNidar]

My thing is that most of these groups are incredibly tiny with the largest being the dasanach who are a few tens of thosuands of people . Its also obvious that these groups are all heavily admixed with whatever other people they live with.

So to then use these handful of groups like the arbore, Baiso, and dasanach. To reconstruct the evolution of somali as a language seems extremely misguided.

These languages die when communities stop speaking them, often due to cultural assimilation, migration, or dominance of a more widely used language; in their case, it was all three, the natural homeland for Somalis is Northern Somali and modern-day SR.

Arbore, Dasanech, and Elmolo all split from Proto-Somali very early, around 1000 BCE, somewhere in northern Somalia, Af Somali has remained relatively untouched bar Arabic loan words which probably got incorporated alongside T Somalis, I can't see how a group of relatively territorial people would allow a foreign group to settle, and procreate unless said group brought a life changing technology that could allow trade and sustance to live in a changing climate, increasing the chances of survival, this creature is drought resistant, I remember reading a study on the Somali camel by the british and it could haul, and survive on less, majority of Somali camels are used for their milk, even during the heights of the trade.

 

[cunug3aad]

, I remember reading a study on the Somali camel by the british and it could haul, and survive on less, majority of Somali camels are used for their milk, even during the heights of the trade.

It's important to emphasize that the study claims that the Somali camel is a bit more distinct and has more diversity than the others but this is because I think Somalis have kept close knit pedigree since more than 2000 years ago, not mixing the initial camels they received from Arabia with newer ones, compared to North African camels that I think mixed more with Arabian camels of different periods for various adaptability purposes. This speaks to the idea that Somalis received camels quite into and above the 2000-year range but also had their distinct camel tradition in terms of the internal mixture of practices that were not continually subject to Arabian camel influence; although that was the origin of the initial influence. This is also evident in the genetic homogeneity of the Somali camel. The early diversity does not contradict the other dimension.

We can see the result in this from the characteristics of adaptations of the Somali camel which was noticed to be very desert adaptable with the best endurance of all other camels.View attachment 340237View attachment 340238View attachment 340239

 

[Mohamedamiin120]

Really? goddamn! I'll keep this up and do a manual revision, I'll need to build my own custom chatgpt, it's useful but limited... unless you feed it the right data.

edited removed it, and will do manual check.

Glottolog patriots are IN CONTROL

Common Glottolog VICTORY!

 

[Mohamedamiin120]

Honestly ive been thinking the omo-tana classification is incredibly shaky. Most of these groups are only a few thousand people and are located extremely far away.
View attachment 373647

Even the rendille border the borena who have lived in their original homeland for who knows how many millenia. It just seems incredibly weird how these tiny niche groups are more lingustically simialr than groups who lived by somalis for millenia like the afar and oromo. I suspect some of these groups are just descended from maybe proto somali traders who moved elsewhere.

YOOOO WTF ARE MY MAPS DOING ON WIKIPEDIA LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Also who tf is this 'Barbardhacii' person on Wikipedia claiming this is "own work" I made that shit.... also what is that recolor!!!!

Proof: https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...anguage-group-somali-is-in-oc-revised.180458/

How tf do you do takedown requests on Wikipedia I will not stand for this, I would have let it slide if they did not assault my eyes and actually attributed me!!!!

 

[Mohamedamiin120]

YOOOO WTF ARE MY MAPS DOING ON WIKIPEDIA LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Also who tf is this 'Barbardhacii' person on Wikipedia claiming this is "own work" I made that shit.... also what is that recolor!!!!

Proof: https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...anguage-group-somali-is-in-oc-revised.180458/

How tf do you do takedown requests on Wikipedia I will not stand for this, I would have let it slide if they did not assault my eyes and actually attributed me!!!!

@NidarNidar @cunug3aad Yo do you see this my maps are being stolen lmfao

 

[cunug3aad]

YOOOO WTF ARE MY MAPS DOING ON WIKIPEDIA LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Also who tf is this 'Barbardhacii' person on Wikipedia claiming this is "own work" I made that shit.... also what is that recolor!!!!

Proof: https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...anguage-group-somali-is-in-oc-revised.180458/

How tf do you do takedown requests on Wikipedia I will not stand for this, I would have let it slide if they did not assault my eyes and actually attributed me!!!!

He stole it 7 days after you posted it there must be a way to claim copyright because wikipedia are very strict about it

Commons:How to detect copyright violations - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

If you find a file which appears to be a copyright violation, it will normally have to be deleted under deletion policy.

However, if the problem is a lack of information, you should consider whether it may be possible to fix the problem, either by checking the source, or by contacting the uploader.

• Tagging for deletion. When you are on a File page, there are several links in the Toolbox at the bottom left to help you "tag" a file for deletion depending on the issue.
  • Enable the gadget QuickDelete in your preferences here then in the left panel near the bottom there should be a button "Report copyright violation" which you could use when you're sure the file is a copyright violation.
  • If you have a number of similar cases, you can do a mass deletion request – see page mass deletion request.
  • The gadget Twinkle that you can activate on the bottom of this page can be useful for tagging files
• Get help.
  • Many copyright issues are documented under copyright rules. Applying the rules is often not straightforward, but looking up the relevant rules will help you ask the right questions.
  • If you're uncertain about the case and the uploader has been active recently, discuss the issue with them first – they are likely best placed to clarify or solve the issue, and this is likely to be helpful even if you later need to get help from others. If more help is needed, or the uploader has not been active recently, you can ask at the help desk.
  • For complex copyright issues, especially ones that might lead to a clarification of Commons' documentation of the relevant copyright rules, you can also raise questions at Village pump/Copyright.

 

[Mohamedamiin120]

He stole it 7 days after you posted it there must be a way to claim copyright because wikipedia are very strict about it

Commons:How to detect copyright violations - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Yeah I already put in a request to delete it ima upload my maps to Wikimedia more because apperently they hungry asf over there for East Africa maps...

 

[Mohamedamiin120]

Yeah I already put in a request to delete it ima upload my maps to Wikimedia more because apperently they hungry asf over there for East Africa maps...

Just replaced ALL instances of that stolen map with my own map (proper colors, not cropped, and attribution!)

Im one petty mf

 

[Midas]

I think the flaw with the isolation model is that it seems weird to say that somali camels were more isolated than morth african and west african camels when were only a boat ride away from yemen and we've been exporting livestock to the Arabian peninsula for who knows how long.

 

[Garaad Awal]

These languages die when communities stop speaking them, often due to cultural assimilation, migration, or dominance of a more widely used language; in their case, it was all three, the natural homeland for Somalis is Northern Somali and modern-day SR.

Arbore, Dasanech, and Elmolo all split from Proto-Somali very early, around 1000 BCE, somewhere in northern Somalia, Af Somali has remained relatively untouched bar Arabic loan words which probably got incorporated alongside T Somalis, I can't see how a group of relatively territorial people would allow a foreign group to settle, and procreate unless said group brought a life changing technology that could allow trade and sustance to live in a changing climate, increasing the chances of survival, this creature is drought resistant, I remember reading a study on the Somali camel by the british and it could haul, and survive on less, majority of Somali camels are used for their milk, even during the heights of the trade.

Now T Somalis are descendants of Arabic speaking Muslims? Arabic loanwords came during the Islamic period. There are Semitic loanwords in Somali that predate the Arabic loanwords from MSA (South Arabian languages), Sabaic/Himyarite, Ge’ez & South Ethio-Semitic

 

[NidarNidar]

Now T Somalis are descendants of Arabic speaking Muslims? Arabic loanwords came during the Islamic period. There are Semitic loanwords in Somali that predate the Arabic loanwords from MSA (South Arabian languages), Sabaic/Himyarite, Ge’ez & South Ethio-Semitic

No, these loanwords would have come in waves, not all at one time, but with constant contact throughout the ages.