"PM says US pressuring Pakistan to recognise Israel: report"

[Omar del Sur]

PM says US pressuring Pakistan to recognise Israel: report

PM says US pressuring Pakistan to recognise Israel: report

Rules out recognition until there is justice for Palestinians.

www.dawn.com

"KARACHI: Prime Minister Imran Khan has said that the country is facing great pressure from the United States to recognise Israel, especially in the wake of peace deals between several Arab states and Tel Aviv, but this will not be possible “unless there is a just settlement, which satisfies Palestine”.

The prime minister was quoted as making these remarks by the Middle East Eye (MEE) website — a portal with a focus on the region — in a report carried on Monday.

MEE said Mr Khan made these remarks “last week” talking to “local media”.

The website quoted the prime minister as saying that pressure to recognise Israel was “extraordinary during the Trump stint”."

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

I think he should recognise Israel this will ensure that India gets no support from Israel and use it to subjugate muslims in Kashmir.

 

[Omar del Sur]

I think he should recognise Israel this will ensure that India gets no support from Israel and use it to subjugate muslims in Kashmir.

Just how many people on here are pro-Israel? People with that mindset are no better than the Saudi leadership who people are so against.

Instead of bowing to Israel, I think we should have a backbone.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

Just how many people on here are pro-Israel? People with that mindset are no better than the Saudi leadership who people are so against.

Instead of bowing to Israel, I think we should have a backbone.

Israel is just a front.The only way to defeat Israel is to cut relations with US.
If this is not happening then dont make enemies with Israel as you have enough enemies as we speak.
UAE, Saudis,Qataris etc are the real enemies of Muslims. All states created by Zionists to serve interest of Israel.

As a Somali we have more enemies at the moment.
Notice how Arab countries have always helped Ethiopians against Somalis.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Israel is just a front.The only way to defeat Israel is to cut relations with US.
If this is not happening then dont make enemies with Israel as you have enough enemies as we speak.
UAE, Saudis,Qataris etc are the real enemies of Muslims. All states created by Zionists to serve interest of Israel.

As a Somali we have more enemies at the moment.
Notice how Arab countries have always helped Ethiopians against Somalis.

The way to beat Israel is to bow down to Israel???? What kind of logical gymnastics is this.

And don't go against Israel- go after other Muslims instead????

Are you a Jew?

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

The way to beat Israel is to bow down to Israel???? What kind of logical gymnastics is this.

And don't go against Israel- go after other Muslims instead????

Are you a Jew?

Those muslim states are doing the bidding for Israel so I prefer to deal with the devil himself not the devil wanabees like Saudi,Qatar,Egypt and UAE.

I pity the Palestinians and I know that Jerusalem is special to us muslims.Rhat doesnt mean Palestianians are good people they have the most horrible and racist people amongst them.

But All these fake Arab states created after the fall.of the Ottoman are a more danger.

You fall out with Israel , well Israel will just chill not even think on what to do with you. UAE,Egypt and Saudis will think for Israel
and act for Israel they will be spying for them and carrying out all the covert operations while Master Israel will be in his sofa sipping coffee and enjoying humous.

 

[AMusee]

@Django you are not making sense. It is about Al Quds primarily. You have to have principles.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Those muslim states are doing the bidding for Israel so I prefer to deal with the devil himself not the devil wanabees like Saudi,Qatar,Egypt and UAE.

No, the answer is not to deal with the devil. You are insane if you want to deal with the devi.

The alternative is not to deal with the devil's minions. I'm not in favor of the devil or the devil's minions.

What you are saying is like saying we should smoke meth because it isn't as bad as crack.

We shouldn't do crack or meth. It's not a question of either we smoke crack or smoke meth. The correct answer is none of the above.

As for Muslim governments that have sold out- it's not news that some Arab countries have sold out. Yes, I'm well aware that's the case. Pointing that out to me is like pointing out grass is green. Yes, I already know.

It is fine to deal with those kind of Muslim countries in things that are permissible- like, for example, it's fine to go on Hajj. Islamically, you can buy and sell with a Jew or Christian.

But those are Muslim countries even if the government has sold out and so it's fine and good in principle to work with Muslim countries but the ones that have sold out should be kept at a certain distance.

What are you are saying and what you are promoting is evil. You're changing the subject to Saudi, UAE, etc. That is a different subject. They may be aligned with Israel but those are different countries.

The OP is about Israel. You can switch to talking about unpopular pro-Israel Arab governments as a demagogic tactic to change the subject and promote a pro-Israel viewpoint but the fact remains that we should not be pro-Israel and we should not be in favor of moving closer towards Israel.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

@Django you are not making sense. It is about Al Quds primarily. You have to have principles.

Well if you have to save quds you should first cut ties with UAE,Turkey,Saudia,Qatar etc

Most major US companies in ME are zionist owned.

So before you go for the big boss start with the street peddlers i.e the Arab zionist states.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Well if you have to save quds you should first cut ties with UAE,Turkey,Saudia,Qatar etc

Most major US companies in ME are zionist owned.

So before you go for the big boss start with the street peddlers i.e the Arab zionist states.

Turkey?

Are you sure you're not a Zionist yourself? Turkey is overtly anti-Zionist.

What you are saying does not make sense. Take on Israel by becoming buddies with Israel? That does not make sense. Other countries are a different subject. There is no need to change the subject as a sort of smokescreen.

 

[Aurelian]

I think he should recognise Israel this will ensure that India gets no support from Israel and use it to subjugate muslims in Kashmir.

Recognising Israel doesn't mean getting support from it. You can see that from recent Arab countries who recognized it. It just a political thing for Netanyahu, getting a recognition from Muslim country is a big political deal in Israel.
But why the hell that political gain would stop them from support a friendly and a relatively wealthy country like India (at least it's better than Pakistan) where the ruling party is pro Israel anti Muslim.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Recognising Israel doesn't mean getting support from it. You can see that from recent Arab countries who recognized it. It just a political thing for Netanyahu, getting a recognition from Muslim country is a big political deal in Israel.
But why the hell that political gain would stop them from support a friendly and a relatively wealthy country like India (at least it's better than Pakistan) where the ruling party is pro Israel anti Muslim.

Yes, what Django is saying doesn't make sense unless the aim is simply to bow down to Zionist Jews. The answer is for Muslims to enter a contest with non-Muslims to see who can kneel the lowest to Jews??

 

[Sloane Ranger]

Somalis partnering with Israel will give us zero benefits whatsoever. Our problems with Ethiopia will continue to exist. I fear this act could actually lead to more people becoming radicalised back home which would make us worse of.

 

[among us]

Just how many people on here are pro-Israel? People with that mindset are no better than the Saudi leadership who people are so against.

Instead of bowing to Israel, I think we should have a backbone.

Are u pro Ethiopian and kenyan

 

[Omar del Sur]

Are u pro Ethiopian and kenyan

It depends.

As I understand it, Somaliweyn would mean incorporating territory that currently is part of Ethiopia and Kenya.

I think the Somalis in Ethiopia and Kenya should decide if they want to join Somalia. If yes, I think they should seek to join Somalia through peaceful means.

But I don't agree with trying to achieve Somaliweyn through armed invasion, Siad Barre-style.

I would like the issue to be resolved peacefully, through peaceful means.

But I only discuss the subject of Somalia and Somalia's neighbors because you brought it up. What I talk about here I think mostly is about general principles and not about Somalia specifically.

 

[Sloane Ranger]

It depends.

As I understand it, Somaliweyn would mean incorporating territory that currently is part of Ethiopia and Kenya.

I think the Somalis in Ethiopia and Kenya should decide if they want to join Somalia. If yes, I think they should seek to join Somalia through peaceful means.

But I don't agree with trying to achieve Somaliweyn through armed invasion, Siad Barre-style.

I would like the issue to be resolved peacefully, through peaceful means.

But I only discuss the subject of Somalia and Somalia's neighbors because you brought it up. What I talk about here I think mostly is about general principles and not about Somalia specifically.

The Somali territories in Ethiopia and Kenya are almost exclusively inhabited by Somalis and always have historically.The lands were partitioned during the Berlin conference and Ethiopia was the only African country present.

At the moment we are not in a position to take it back militarily and even if we were Ethiopia would be supported again. A peaceful solution doesn't exist when the cards are against you and as one of the oldest muslim nations we will never be favoured over Ethiopia. The second country to embrace Christianity after Armenia.

 

[Sheikh Kulkuli]

Omar del my urgent priority is Ethiopia not Israel.

Tell palestiniasn to get their land through peaceful means the way you are encouraging somalis to do to their occupied lands.

A palestinian blood is not holier than a Somali blood in the occupied lands.

We are all equal.No palestinian has ever supported our struggle infact in 1977 PLO sided with Ethiopia.

So if you are going to open a can of worms regarding Israel lets be honest.

We can support Arab Zionist states that were created after Israel to support and aid Israel.
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is one of those.

 

[Omar del Sur]

The Somali territories in Ethiopia and Kenya are almost exclusively inhabited by Somalis and always have historically.The lands were partitioned during the Berlin conference and Ethiopia was the only African country present.

At the moment we are not in a position to take it back militarily and even if we were Ethiopia would be supported again. A peaceful solution doesn't exist when the cards are against you and as one of the oldest muslim nations we will never be favoured over Ethiopia. The second country to embrace Christianity after Armenia.

As I understand it- I don't think that historically there was this single Somali state that included Ogaden and what is today Somalia. I don't think there is a historical basis of the current Somalia state also including the Ogaden. I think the idea is ethnically based. I think the idea is that because the people are ethnic Somalis that they should be included in the Somali state but I don't think that what is today Somalia was under a single independent Somali state which included the Ogaden.

I think the basis of the claim is ethnic.

If the Somali state (I mean the current one).... if it had previously included the Ogaden then Ethiopia had invaded and taken the Ogaden, I think I would definitely be in favor of taking back the Ogaden.

But I think it is based on ethnicity.

Given the basis for the claim- would an armed invasion of Ethiopia be justified? Should I be in favor of such an invasion?

For me to agree in principle with an armed invasion of Ethiopia would be extremely serious.

I think I would need some kind of rock-solid basis for me to agree with something like that.

My viewpoint is that I believe in peaceful means. For example, there is what Pakistan has been doing in regards to the Kashmir issue. Pakistan has been working to publicize Indian atrocities against the Kashmiris. There could be consciousness-raising among the people in the disputed territory and it could be made clear to the world at large that the people in the disputed territory are being oppressed and wish to join Somalia/Pakistan.

My viewpoint is that the issue should be made about self-determination. If it is made very clear that the people in the Somali areas wish to join Somalia- if that is made very clear then it becomes an issue of self-determination.

Then if the people within such area engage in peaceful means to try to join Somalia- then they are faced with repression from Ethiopia/Kenya then this is another factor.

Then it's a matter of people peacefully seeking to exercise self-determination and very clearly being oppressed. Then this imo would make it very clear that it's a just struggle for self-determination.

I'm not willing to agree with an armed invasion of Ethiopia purely on the basis of Somaliweyn. But if the Ogaden is like Kashmir or Palestine where Muslims are being oppressed.... and if it's made clear that it is an issue of self-determination and that Ethiopia is repressing a legitimate, popular, peaceful movement for self-determination... then I think the case for incorporating the Ogaden would be very strong and the stronger the case, I think the wider the range of acceptable means.

There could be books, videos, dvds highlighting the issue, informing people about the oppression of the Muslims, the leader of Somalia could go to the UN and talk about the plight of Muslims in Ogaden like Imran Khan has done with Kashmir.

Kashmir is kind of a dispute between Pakistan and India but I would argue it's also been recognized as a Muslim issue and not only a Pakistani issue. I think there is an Ummah-wide duty to be in solidarity with the Kashmiris and with the Palestinians. And if the Ogaden is a similar situation then all Muslims need to be in solidarity with the Muslims of the Ogaden but I think the Muslim Ummah has to be informed. I think there should be a campaign to inform the Ummah. And this is something ordinary Somalis can participate in. Ordinary Somalis can make videos, post content, etc. highlighting oppression. Then the larger Muslim world can be informed and be in solidarity. People can pressure Ilhan Omar to go in front of the public and talk about it. The leader of Somalia could talk about it at the UN like the leader of Pakistan did with Kashmir. The issue could be brought to the attention of Turkey. TRT seems pretty pro-Muslim and has a wide reach.

I am not willing to agree in principle with an armed invasion of Ethiopia on the basis of Somaliweyn. But if it's clearly established that the will of the people is to join Somalia and that the people are being oppressed by Ethiopia then I think the case for incorporating the land into Somalia is very strong. I think it very likely can be established that the people are being oppressed but I am not sure one way or the other as to whether the people want to join Somalia. Then with Kenya.... I don't get any impression that Kenya has been oppressing Muslims. I could be uninformed but I don't know of them oppressing Muslims. And I don't know if native Somali people in Kenya want to join Somalia.

If it can be established that the land is inhabited by a native Somali population (which I believe is established), that the Somalis are being oppressed (which I think can be established with Ethiopia but maybe not Kenya) and that the Somalis want to join Somalia- then I'm definitely for incorporating the territory into Somalia. But I don't agree in principle on armed invasion purely on the basis of Somaliweyn.

Is there proof from the Quran and Sunnah that would support fighting purely on the basis of Somaliweyn?

I know there is a Quranic basis for fighting in defense of the oppressed, however

And what is [the matter] with you that you fight not in the cause of Allah and [for] the oppressed among men, women, and children who say, "Our Lord, take us out of this city of oppressive people and appoint for us from Yourself a protector and appoint for us from Yourself a helper"?

-Surah An-Nisa 4:75

 

[Sloane Ranger]

@Omar del Sur are Somalis less islamic than kashmiris? Or Pakistanis? because you seem to support them on the basis that they are muslim. Human rights violations have happened to Somalis in both Kenya and Ethiopia to Somalis.

This has been well documented over 50,000 Somalis in Kenya were put in concentration camps and murdered. Thousands of Somalis have been murdered at the hands of the Ethiopian regimes. These records exist of you care to look at it. Both regions were under the former Somali sultanates.

On what basis should Somalis be willing to ignore the atrocities happening to our brothers and sisters accross the borders? China has been land grabbing from their neighbours for centuries and you support them over Muslims.

Show me the quote about the muslims thst side with their enemies because nothing in the deen supports your rhetoric. The muslim countries you praise have actively supported Ethiopia and the US in military invasion. Why would you expact us to support their cause when they will happily murder our citizens for brownie points.

Imran Khan looks out for his citizens, Erdogan looks out for his own citizens. They don't care about the Ummah. The ummah have actively stabbed us in the back or stood back and watched us get murdered.

I wish the Kashmiris and the Palestinians all the best but I will only support them paasively. They have enough support globally and Somalis need to support Somalis only.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Omar del my urgent priority is Ethiopia not Israel.

Tell palestiniasn to get their land through peaceful means the way you are encouraging somalis to do to their occupied lands.

A palestinian blood is not holier than a Somali blood in the occupied lands.

We are all equal.No palestinian has ever supported our struggle infact in 1977 PLO sided with Ethiopia.

So if you are going to open a can of worms regarding Israel lets be honest.

We can support Arab Zionist states that were created after Israel to support and aid Israel.
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is one of those.

Was there a historical state that actually fulfilled Somaliweyn? As I understand, the only time that Somaliweyn was actually (mostly) achieved was under Italy.

I don't think Somaliweyn is the same as the Palestine issue. I don't see the two as being the same.

I don't see Siad Barre invading Ethiopia as being the same as a Palestinian freedom fighter. To me he's more similar to Ahmed Gurey than to a Palestinian freedom fighter.