PL Treaty Vs SL Vs South Treaty And Colonies

[DR OSMAN]

PL treaty was vastly superior to SL treaty. Somaliland was a colony, they had no leader or president or sultan to rule they're lands unless they can name one which they never do. The British ruled them and you can clearly see the FLAG OF BRITAIN in they're lands in history. Majerteniya had it's own FLAG not Italy during our treaty. Only when Italy destroyed Majerteniya and Keenadiid Sultanates is when the Italian flag was raised and we became a Colony. This was around 1927.

PL treaty with Italy was simple they cut a deal with King Osman to give them weapons to establish a Kingdom for Bari/Nugaal and in return they would protect the trade corridor and be loyal to Italy foreign interest. They did the same with Keenadiid who carved a new territory in Mudug/Galgaduud and in return Keenadiid ensured safe passage of all Italy sea movement. Sayid and @Teeri-Alpha people were calling for One Somalia rampaging the east and west of Somalia using Dhulbahante Horse-men and they reported to the old world power at the time 'ottomans'. So why is PL criticized the most when it was the best treaty in Somalia. Like PL today has a treaty with America to train it's PSF, why is King Osman insulted for doing the same with Italy to ask for weapons to establish a Kingdom?

King Saud did the same with Saudi arabia and asked for weapons to defeat anyone who is an enemy of his RULE. The south wasn't even a treaty but a direct colony indicating there was no KINGDOM in place to hold any discussion with. So the south please 'tanasul' and 'concede' your role that you were born when the colonials came, prior to that you had nothing in terms of administration or a kingdom.

Come in Somaliyay in this reconciliation talk. Yes the DR does speak on politics, economy, history, tribe, and reconcilitiation. But this area of reconciliation is critical to me or else we can't achieve cooperation among clans like the h2tu and tutsi did, once the cooperation among clan is there and we have reconciled. We can discuss politics and nation building or else it's futile and pointless because the political will isn't established yet.

The longer we ignore reconciliation, the longer the nation remains in IDP camps. Plus the world order isn't going to allow 10 new member states into United Nation who have 10 votes when they are population less then 15 million while China is 1 billion and is one member state. So SL stop running around with your secessionist Nonsense and get in here and reconcile so we can all have a productive nation that we can boast and be proud of to the world, not a nation that is denial and not fixing they're tribal matters.

 

[Younes Osman]

PL treaty was vastly superior to SL treaty. Somaliland was a colony, they had no leader or president or sultan to rule they're lands unless they can name one which they never do. The British ruled them and you can clearly see the FLAG OF BRITAIN in they're lands in history. Majerteniya had it's own FLAG not Italy during our treaty. Only when Italy destroyed Majerteniya and Keenadiid Sultanates is when the Italian flag was raised and we became a Colony. This was around 1927.

PL treaty with Italy was simple they cut a deal with King Osman to give them weapons to establish a Kingdom for Bari/Nugaal and in return they would protect the trade corridor and be loyal to Italy foreign interest. They did the same with Keenadiid who carved a new territory in Mudug/Galgaduud and in return Keenadiid ensured safe passage of all Italy sea movement. Sayid and @Teeri-Alpha people were calling for One Somalia rampaging the east and west of Somalia using Dhulbahante Horse-men and they reported to the old world power at the time 'ottomans'. So why is PL criticized the most when it was the best treaty in Somalia. Like PL today has a treaty with America to train it's PSF, why is King Osman insulted for doing the same with Italy to ask for weapons to establish a Kingdom?

King Saud did the same with Saudi arabia and asked for weapons to defeat anyone who is an enemy of his RULE. The south wasn't even a treaty but a direct colony indicating there was no KINGDOM in place to hold any discussion with. So the south please 'tanasul' and 'concede' your role that you were born when the colonials came, prior to that you had nothing in terms of administration or a kingdom.

Come in Somaliyay in this reconciliation talk. Yes the DR does speak on politics, economy, history, tribe, and reconcilitiation. But this area of reconciliation is critical to me or else we can't achieve cooperation among clans like the h2tu and tutsi did, once the cooperation among clan is there and we have reconciled. We can discuss politics and nation building or else it's futile and pointless because the political will isn't established yet.

The longer we ignore reconciliation, the longer the nation remains in IDP camps. Plus the world order isn't going to allow 10 new member states into United Nation who have 10 votes when they are population less then 15 million while China is 1 billion and is one member state. So SL stop running around with your secessionist Nonsense and get in here and reconcile so we can all have a productive nation that we can boast and be proud of to the world, not a nation that is denial and not fixing they're tribal matters.

In all honesty, I think somaliland is better off being independent which is also beneficial for somalia. 3 Somali majority countries in the UN sounds good. Instead of resentment , jealousy and bitterness which could damage what's left of the so called "Somali brotherhood or sisterhood " which appears to revolve around the somali identity....... I think the dream of "Greater Somalia " that was visioned by people in the post protectorate and colonial era of the 1960s is long gone.

 

[DR OSMAN]

In all honesty, I think somaliland is better off being independent which is also beneficial for somalia. 3 Somali majority countries in the UN sounds good. Instead of resentment , jealousy and bitterness which could damage what's left of the so called "Somali brotherhood or sisterhood " which appears to revolve around the somali identity....... I think the dream of "Greater Somalia " that was visioned by people in the post protectorate and colonial era of the 1960s is long gone.

So for a population of 15 million you want them to have 4 Countries. SL/PL/Djibouti/South Somalia? try telling the UN that when other countries are given one membership spot for 1 billion people like China, u think the world order will allow this? unless we have some real exceptional reason beyond TRIBALISM, don't dream of it because every tribe in Africa will use tribal card for a nation and it will open a flood gate and they won't allow 1000 tribal nations in the UN.

I prefer a confederation with a ceremonial capital with no duties beyond 'ceremonies' and the state function is in the regions only. Even Banadir region should have it's own power over Mogadishu and the Federal govt just is ceremonial and told what to do by the REGIONS

 

[Younes Osman]

So for a population of 15 million you want them to have 4 Countries. SL/PL/Djibouti/South Somalia? try telling the UN that when other countries are given one membership spot for 1 billion people like China, u think the world order will allow this? unless we have some real exceptional reason beyond TRIBALISM, don't dream of it because every tribe in Africa will use tribal card for a nation and it will open a flood gate and they won't allow 1000 tribal nations in the UN.

I prefer a confederation with a ceremonial capital with no duties beyond 'ceremonies' and the state function is in the regions only.

Somaliland is not a tribal enclave , I think the people who are living in my ancestral land have the right to be independent because 97% voted not to unite with Somalia.

In all honesty, there is nothing there in xamar , class system based on clan and bickering between garrowe, kismayo and Mogadishu officials.

When I was growing up the green, red and white flag with the black star was displayed in the living room in my house. That black star represents the death of "Greater Somalia " which is the concept of unifying regions that consist of majority ethnic Somalis.

I believe orgeden belongs to Ethiopia
I believe NFD belongs to kenya
I believe Djbouti should remain independent
I believe somaliland should get recognition by the international community.
I believe that somalia should start from scratch and make it become a great country.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

Somaliland is not a tribal enclave , I think the people who are living in my ancestral land have the right to be independent because 97% voted not to unite with Somalia.

In all honesty, there is nothing there in xamar , class system based on clan and bickering between garrowe, kismayo and Mogadishu officials.

When I was growing up the green, red and white flag with the black star was displayed in the living room in my house. That black star represents the death of "Greater Somalia " which is the concept of unifying regions that consist of majority ethnic Somalis.

I believe orgeden belongs to Ethiopia
I believe NFD belongs to kenya
I believe Djbouti should remain independent
I believe somaliland should get recognition by the international community.
I believe that somalia should start from scratch and make it become a great country.

Warninyahow if SL becomes independent, PL will follow. Why stay with the anarchists if you can free your self, your lands and most important of all your people.

How ever we cannot rest until all somali regions including somali galbeed and NFD are independent. Maybe if we formed 7 different countries with one massive army call it the somali union, with 7 capitals, jig jiga, Djibouti city, hargeisa, garowe, xamar, kismayo (or the not yet liberated capital of JL) and finally garissa.

In this way we can balkanize and maintain our independence and protect our lands and interest

 

[Younes Osman]

Warninyahow if SL becomes independent, PL will follow. Why stay with the anarchists if you can free your self, your lands and most important of all your people.

How ever we cannot rest until all somali regions including somali galbeed and NFD are independent. Maybe if we formed 7 different countries with one massive army call it the somali union, with 7 capitals, jig jiga, Djibouti city, hargeisa, garowe, xamar, kismayo (or the not yet liberated capital of JL) and finally garissa.

In this way we can balkanize and maintain our independence and protect our lands and interest

I think for both nfds and orgeden to become independent from Kenya and Ethiopia there has to be a democratic vote which is observed by members of the UN.

The idea of forming a multi somali nation army is vertically impossible since politics and bickering would occur regularly which starts from disagreement followed by the "qabil card" . Furthermore, those nations may have differing policies in comparison to others and the comparability of such partnerships has be questioned for the sake of cohesiveness and sanity.

 

[merka]

Majerteniya had it's own FLAG not Italy during our treaty. Only when Italy destroyed Majerteniya and Keenadiid Sultanates is when the Italian flag was raised and we became a Colony. This was around 1927.

On 2 December 1888, explains Fernando Marino di Crispi and the Italian Somalia, Sultan of Hobyo, Yusuf Ali, had sent a relative to Zanzibar to the Italian Consulate in Italy [...] to ask in his name the protection of the Italian flag. Yusuf Ali had asked for Italian protection to escape the English domination [...]

So on Friday, February 8, 1889, the Dogali moved to Hobyo where after long negotiations to which the Lieutenant Edward Ferrara was actively involved, an agreement was reached that all the territories of the Hobyo Sultanate were placed under Italian protection (with an annual fee of 1,200 thaler, then brought to 1,800). After the mission, lifted the Italian flag on the Sultan's residence

https://italiacoloniale.com/2016/11...firmano-il-protettorato-con-il-regno-ditalia/

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

I think for both nfds and orgeden to become independent from Kenya and Ethiopia there has to be a democratic vote which is observed by members of the UN.

The idea of forming a multi somali nation army is vertically impossible since politics and bickering would occur regularly which starts from disagreement followed by the "qabil card" . Furthermore, those nations may have differing policies in comparison to others and the comparability of such partnerships has be questioned for the sake of cohesiveness and sanity.

I understand there might be tribal implications with a united army however it was done before. And a united army is vital for national security of all 7 nations. We might bicker and fight when we are in the same nation, I don't see that happening when we are all equals. Every big tribe ruling themselves. When one nation is attacked we all respond. Something which was common back in the day. We had sultanates, fighting between somalis used to be minimal. We can go back to those days.

 

[Younes Osman]

I understand there might be tribal implications with a united army however it was done before. And a united army is vital for national security of all 7 nations. We might bicker and fight when we are in the same nation, I don't see that happening when we are all equals. Every big tribe ruling themselves. When one nation is attacked we all respond. Something which was common back in the day. We had sultanates, fighting between somalis used to be minimal. We can go back to those days.

You can't wave a magic wond, I just wish my ancestors just voted to become an independent state without the union and become like djbouti but the past can't be changed. Most Somalis never had a sense of experiencing being part of a nationhood because qabil was always before nationality.
The failure of equitably of politic representation was a concern for the modern day SL back in the days of the 1960s and onwards until 1991 when SL declared independence from the rest of Somalia.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

You can't wave a magic wond, I just wish my ancestors just voted to become an independent state without the union and become like djbouti but the past can't be changed. Most Somalis never had a sense of experiencing being part of a nationhood because qabil was always before nationality.
The failure of equitably of politic representation was a concern for the modern day SL back in the days of the 1960s and onwards until 1991 when SL declared independence from the rest of Somalia.

Hence why every major qabiil should become its own nation. Let the people decide themselves. Make a council of presidents/boqors whom ever governs the nations.
Foreign policy should be the same among the 7 nations as should military be.

We've got to choose, or a united republic covering the entire somali peninsula (the five somali regions) or UAE style. We cannot have both at the same time. Like we have now with just 2 of the 5 regions.

It is simple math or you can live toghether or everyone goes to their own regions and govern internally with their own rules and externally they make policies toghether. See it as a Somali parliamentary union.

Everyone has its own constitution and a parliamentary constitution for external matters.

A lot of people don't know that the Somali Democratic republic told the UN that if Somali galbeed and NFD are not liberated there will be no peace in east/horn of africa. And we kept our words.

Somalis are good in a couple of things; War,economy, supporting the oppressed, forging ties with almost all the countries in the world.

 

[Younes Osman]

Hence why every major qabiil should become its own nation. Let the people decide themselves. Make a council of presidents/boqors whom ever governs the nations.
Foreign policy should be the same among the 7 nations as should military be.

We've got to choose, or a united republic covering the entire somali peninsula (the five somali regions) or UAE style. We cannot have both at the same time. Like we have now with just 2 of the 5 regions.

It is simple math or you can live toghether or everyone goes to their own regions and govern internally with their own rules and externally they make policies toghether. See it as a Somali parliamentary union.

Everyone has its own constitution and a parliamentary constitution for external matters.

A lot of people don't know that the Somali Democratic republic told the UN that if Somali galbeed and NFD are not liberated there will be no peace in east/horn of africa. And we kept our words.

Somalis are good in a couple of things; War,economy, supporting the oppressed, forging ties with almost all the countries in the world.

When it comes to somaliland, there isn't a qabil issue in politics. But, in Somalia there is 4.5 system.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

When it comes to somaliland, there isn't a qabil issue in politics. But, in Somalia there is 4.5 system.

You gotta be kidding me. Are you actually dumb? There are only 2 subclans that rule Somaliland. They are dubbed as the jeegaan, basically they made an alliance to keep the presidency within them. How is that a democracy, and before you try to tell me that it ain't true. My mother is from burco, her clan isn't allowed to govern somaliland and the jeegaan make sure that it stays that way.

All somali leaders are selected by the elite, you scratch my back and i scratch yours type of shit is going on.

None of us are democratically elected since the last president was assassinated.

 

[Younes Osman]

You gotta be kidding me. Are you actually dumb? There are only 2 subclans that rule Somaliland. They are dubbed as the jeegaan, basically they made an alliance to keep the presidency within them. How is that a democracy, and before you try to tell me that it ain't true. My mother is from burco, her clan isn't allowed to govern somaliland and the jeegaan make sure that it stays that way.

All somali leaders are selected by the elite, you scratch my back and i scratch yours type of shit is going on.

None of us are democratically elected since the last president was assassinated.

I'm assuming you are saying HY ........
Look I'm HY myself with sa'ad musa and arap relatives and HY get a fair representation just like everyone in the isaaq clan family, gadarbisi, Issa ( there needs to be a lot more participation ) and that the Harti they should also be more of them instead of just being speaker of the house.

 

[Younes Osman]

I'm assuming you are saying HY ........
Look I'm HY myself with sa'ad musa and arap relatives and HY get a fair representation just like everyone in the isaaq clan family, gadarbisi, Issa ( there needs to be a lot more participation ) and that the Harti they should also be more of them instead of being speaker of the house.

Furthermore, issaq politic elites in SL are mostly HA and HJ.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

I'm assuming you are saying HY ........
Look I'm HY myself with sa'ad musa and arap relatives and HY get a fair representation just like everyone in the isaaq clan family, gadarbisi, Issa ( there needs to be a lot more participation ) and that the Harti they should also be more of them instead of being speaker of the house.

Than you should now that the unhinged one man political party in SL was created to keep the wadani party away from the presidency. You can ask every logical HY clansmen and they will tell you what i just did.

Why did you think that caare is successful in his operation against kulmiye. He has low key support from politically oppressed clans

 

[Younes Osman]

Than you should now that the unhinged one man political party in SL was created to keep the wadani party away from the presidency. You can ask every logical HY clansmen and they will tell you what i just did.

Why did you think that caare is successful in his operation against kulmiye. He has low key support from politically oppressed clans

In all honesty, all I know is the somaliland political system is designed to represent everyone in SL. But, I'm assuming that the governor of Sannag , mayors of maydh, xiis and erigavo are Habar Yoonis?


I do recall hearing that musa bihi visited members of sacad Younis elders in sannag. Has the issue been resolved yet ?

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

In all honesty, all I know is the somaliland political system is designed to represent everyone in SL. But, I'm assuming that the governor of Sannag , mayors of maydh, xiis and erigavo are Habar Yoonis?


I do recall hearing that musa bihi visited members of sacad Younis elders in sannag. Has the issue been resolved yet ?

Not really the HY and garxajis might hold government positions, however they are forbidden to become president.

 

[Younes Osman]

Not really the HY and garxajis might hold government positions, however they are forbidden to become president.

Are you HJ?

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

Are you HJ?

No my mum is HY my dad is cali salebaan

 

[Younes Osman]

Darod ?