Genetics Phenotype can be misleading when it comes to genotype

Apollo

C'mon man
Staff Member
Moderator
@Apollo why do Arab Egyptians (excluding Coptic peopl) have madow hair?
It's not that common, most Egyptians have type 2 and 3a-3b hair. Let's not exaggerate based on rarities.

portrait of a Nubian from 120BC.

View attachment 70421
There's an upcoming ancient DNA study on medieval Christian Nubians, the abstract says they cluster with modern-day Northeast Africans (likely similar to Habeshas/Bejas).

Fully Nilote Nubians probably never existed.
 

madaxweyne

madaxweyne
VIP
Yet they conquered and ruled Egypt for over a hundred years. Very inferior indeed.
nabatae came after the fall of the kingdom of kush
by then kush was invaded and ransacked by aksum or ethiopia
so they where cushites
as for the nubians their cushites who speak nilotic after the nobatae invaded

modern nubians and beja are conciderd to be decendents of the ancient sudanese cushites
thier not nilotes sahib
 
nabatae came after the fall of the kingdom of kush
by then kush was invaded and ransacked by aksum or ethiopia
so they where cushites
as for the nubians their cushites who speak nilotic after the nobatae invaded

modern nubians and beja are conciderd to be decendents of the ancient sudanese cushites
thier not nilotes sahib
Statues and depictions clearly show that nubians were black negroids, with very negroid features.
 
nabatae came after the fall of the kingdom of kush
by then kush was invaded and ransacked by aksum or ethiopia
so they where cushites
as for the nubians their cushites who speak nilotic after the nobatae invaded

modern nubians and beja are conciderd to be decendents of the ancient sudanese cushites
thier not nilotes sahib
When the Hebeshas invaded they said that there was the "black people" (Nilo Sharans) and the "red people" (Cushites). Nubains where Nilo Sharan.
 

madaxweyne

madaxweyne
VIP
I'm not disputing the original Nubians were Nilotes.

The people who built Kush & so forth were a mixture between Ancient North Africans & SSA.
the people who built kush and kherma where cushties
no doubt they where cushties

nibadia or nubians it succeeded the kingdom of Kush. After its establishment in around 400,

as for the nubains themselves their mostly a mixure of cushites and arabs who speak nilotic
 

madaxweyne

madaxweyne
VIP
When the Hebeshas invaded they said that there was the "black people" (Nilo Sharans) and the "red people" (Cushites). Nubains where Nilo Sharan.
they said their where cushites of the kingdom of cush
ie cushites

the black people where nilotes

bejas are the cultral and linguistic decendents of the cushites, nubians are cushites by race only
 
they said their where cushites of the kingdom of cush
ie cushites

the black people where nilotes
"Nubians (/ˈnuːbiənz, ˈnjuː-/) are an ethnolinguistic group of Africans indigenous to present-day Sudan and southern Egypt who originate from the early inhabitants of the central Nile valley, believed to be one of the earliest cradles of civilization.[2] They speak Nubian languages, part of the Northern Eastern Sudanic languages."

They where not Cushitic.
 

madaxweyne

madaxweyne
VIP
"Nubians (/ˈnuːbiənz, ˈnjuː-/) are an ethnolinguistic group of Africans indigenous to present-day Sudan and southern Egypt who originate from the early inhabitants of the central Nile valley, believed to be one of the earliest cradles of civilization.[2] They speak Nubian languages, part of the Northern Eastern Sudanic languages."

They where not Cushitic.
You are confusing Nubians with Kushites.

The kings of Kush were dark reddish-brown, marin, not black like the Nubians. Their closest modern relatives are the Beja, who are recognized as Cushitic.


https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...crystalinks.com/pharaohskush.jpg&action=click



The kings of Kush. Do these folks look negroid to you?

http://www.ancientsudan.org/

The Kushites are the ancestors of the people of North Sudan today. The people of Kush practiced agriculture along the Nile Valley building one of the very early world civilizations. According to the Biblical Table of Nations, the Kushites are the descendants of Ham, the son of Noah. According to the classification system in linguistics, the modern Nubian language is defined as a Nilo-Saharan language, though other studies classify it as Afro-Asiatic.

After the intensified migration of Arab populations into Sudan, starting from the fourteenth century CE, many Arab tribes settled and intermarried with the local population. As most of the immigrants were men, and since Arabs follow a patreliniar tradition (i.e. the children take the identity of their fathers), a majority of Sudanese today define themselves as Arabs.


Groups of nomads, closely related to the Kushites, have inhabited the eastern and western deserts relieng on subsistent agriculture. Th nomads of the east were known to the Kushites as "Meded", to the Egyptians as "Medjay", to the Arabs as "Beja," and to the Romans as "Blemmyes." Since ancient times, the inhabitants of the western deserts have practiced pastoralism, side by side with the Libyans.

Intermarriages with other foreigners took place at different times and in other parts of Sudan, which caused the Kushite identity to disappear and the Nubian identity to wither greatly. For example, in Western Sudan, some of the indigenous nomads, who inhabited those regions since ancient times, had intermixed with West- African immigrants, as well as with Arab settlers. A minority of Sudanese today along the Nile still identify as Nubians.
Today, the language and culture of the bulk of Sudanese people is obviously an Arabic one. Yet, the physical features and genetics of today's Sudanese population proved to be mainly native. The Anthropological studies of mummies from ancient Sudan and the sharp and clear colored drawings of people found inside Kushite burials that go back as far as 3000 years, prove that the ancient people of Kush looked typically like the modern people of North Sudan with their dark-red complexion and curly or wavy hair.

North Sudanese:






Beja:




as for the nubians
These Cushites have become assimilated into Nilo-Saharan cultures becoming the modern day Nubians. DNA has proven that Nubians are genetically closely related to their Cushitic and Ethio-Eri Semitic (Afro-Asiatic) neighbors instead of their fellow Nilo-Saharan speakers.


In the case of northern Sudan Cushitic culture is extinct, but it continues to flourish in the case of eastern Sudan with the Beja people.
Modern Nubians speak Nubian languages. It belongs to the Eastern Sudanic branch of the Nilo-Saharan phylum. Linguistic evidence also strongly indicates that Cushitic languages were spoken in Lower Nubia, an ancient region which straddles present day Southern Egypt and Northern Sudan, before the arrival of North Eastern Sudanic languages in the Middle Nile Valley

theya re a nilo cushitic peoples
 

Sophisticate

Steel Magnolia
Staff Member
Moderator
Those Dinka's eating cow ass are one of the only Nilo-Saharan people who did not mix with Niger-Congo invaders that heavily. If Dinka's are doing this in the modern day, I can't imagine what our ancestors where doing 8000 years ago. But hey, they where pagan's destined for hell either way.
The Dinka are also mixed with the Niger-Congo groups. No such thing as a pure Nilote (now).

They are essentially a collection of tribes that live an agro-pastoral life. Their predecessors were actually hunter gatherers 3000 BCE (so their way of life has changed).

Do you honestly expect people to be culturally or physically static and unchanging (with zero in-group variability)?

Also, let's not act like they were the only River Lakes Nilotic group. There were others with different customs.
 
Last edited:

Apollo

C'mon man
Staff Member
Moderator
Anyone who thinks that Nubians were like Dinkas is going to be in for a massive disappoint when Ancient Nubian DNA will be released. Getting rid of many stereotypes, like the misconception on Ancient Egyptians.
 

madaxweyne

madaxweyne
VIP
Anyone who thinks that Nubians were like Dinkas is going to be in for a massive disappoint when Ancient Nubian DNA will be released. Getting rid of many stereotypes, like the misperception on Ancient Egyptians.
thier was no ancient nubians only the kingdom of the nobatae
who displaced the anicent kingdom of cush and succeeded them

thier was only the cushites of the kingdom of cush whose cultral decendents are the beja of sudan

as for the nubians their cushitic who happend to be cultrally assimilated by the nobatae proven by nubian genetics
 

Sophisticate

Steel Magnolia
Staff Member
Moderator
It's not that common, most Egyptians have type 2 and 3a-3b. Let's not exaggerate based on rarities.



There's an upcoming ancient DNA study on medieval Christian Nubians, the abstract says they cluster with modern-day Northeast Africans (likely similar to Habeshas/Bejas).

Fully Nilote Nubians probably never existed.
In case you haven't gotten the memo, Somalis take outliers/anomalies and make them their poster children. Have years of Somali mug shots being passed off as the average Abdi or Xalimo, taught you nothing? Lol

Other groups are not immune from our massive generalizations.
 

Apollo

C'mon man
Staff Member
Moderator
thier was no ancient nubians only the kingdom of the nobatae
who displaced the anicent kingdom of cush and succeeded them

thier was only the cushites of the kingdom of cush whose cultral decendents are the beja of sudan

as for the nubians their cushitic who happend to be cultrally assimilated by the nobatae proven by nubian genetics
You get the point, I meant the Nubian civilization builders. They were always racially intermediate between East Mediterraneans and Sub-Saharans.

Ancient Egyptians had standardized depictions for foreigners and picked their most extreme phenotypes for propaganda / us vs them mentality rather than depicting the population mean.
 

madaxweyne

madaxweyne
VIP
You get the point, I meant the Nubian civilization builders. They were always racially intermediate between Mediterraneans and Sub-Saharans.

Ancient Egyptians had standardized depiction for foreigners and picked their most extreme phenotypes for propaganda/ us vs them mentality rather than depicting the population mean.
oh the nobatae nubian kingdom

i dont think they where full fledged nilotes probably nilo saharan cushites, they where probably north east african cushites
 

Apollo

C'mon man
Staff Member
Moderator
Yess, they pale skin and Arab features but their hair is kinky. I was wondering if those kinky hair Egyptians are indigenous?
Egyptians have some post-Roman era SSA admixture. It's not a lot, but it may affect the phenotype of some of them.
 
It's not that common, most Egyptians have type 2 and 3a-3b hair. Let's not exaggerate based on rarities.



There's an upcoming ancient DNA study on medieval Christian Nubians, the abstract says they cluster with modern-day Northeast Africans (likely similar to Habeshas/Bejas).

Fully Nilote Nubians probably never existed.
Late Nubians prior to the fall of Makuria and Alodia probably had Arab admixture. Arab tribes had already migrated into the Sudan as early as 1000 years before Islam. Some areas already spoke Arabic as a lingua franca even prior to the fall of the Nubian Christian states.

Some reigning Nubian families already had Arab paternal ancestry, since Nubians were a matreilineal society. They intermarried the sons of the Arab chieftains and Nubian aristocratic women.

The Kushites however were depicted mostly as very Dinka-looking, with some Cushitic-looking groups who the Egyptians and Aksumites noted.

The early Nubians were most likely similar, but the assimilation and Christianization of Arab tribes by the Nubians meant a lot of Arab ancestry was already present in Nubians prior to their fall.

Several Sudani Arab L222.2 subclades have a pre Islamic or early Islamic Arabian origin.

The genetic Arabization of Sudan was thus already occurring centuries ago. The camel culture of the Beja is essentially an Arabian import. Very early Arabic inscriptions can be found in eastern Egypt and Arab tribes are mentioned as being in Egypt and southwards centuries prior to Islam.

The Banu Kunuz and Juhayna and various other Arab tribes were already inside Nubian borders much earlier than we expect.
 

Trending

Latest posts

Top