Origins of Ceeb Culture

[balanbalis]

https://x.com/Rubitheeone/status/1926327627301703896

Ignore this girl's delusion that Somalia was "Arabised", I just wanted to talk about Ceeb culture.

Out of all the Arabic loan words in Somali, 'Ceeb' sticks out. I say this because many Arabic words are not new ideas in themselves i.e. fadlan, caadi, miskeen, xaasid. But I don't believe Ceeb has a real native Somali equivalent.

I've looked through dictionaries and they use 'hil' as the Somali native word for shame but I don't recognise it outside of its use as 'wax hilai'. Plus, it's use is more like 'modest' rather than a taboo/embarrassing act. Maybe 'xishood' is the Somali equivalent? Although in my mind it's more about decorum rather than outright shame. But I'm not sure.

But I believe Ceeb culture itself likely originated by Somalis, I think we loaned an Arabic word to give a better name to it. Reason being, I think that 'Ceebness' is natural counter to a society where hyper confidence is expected. But it is very very true how its usually only applied to women. This is just plain misogyny, and also a mixture of higher standards expected of women due to Islam. E.g. women are expected to dress more conservatively, stay at home more/be seen less in public etc which is harder to achieve than what's expected of men without reaching the 'ceeb!' label.

 

[Chaseyourdreamzz]

During the arabization of Somalia I’m sorry I just can’t get over that some people need to educated before they speak

 

[balanbalis]

During the arabization of Somalia I’m sorry I just can’t get over that some people need to educated before they speak

Some people genuinely believe we had no agency, if arabisation was real, we'd be typing in Arabic right now

 

[Chaseyourdreamzz]

Some people genuinely believe we had no agency, if arabisation was real, we'd be typing in Arabic right now

Probably a Confused diaspora kid

 

[cunug3aad]

Is this not just a word to describe honour-shame culture a lot or peoples have this
But its notable with somali culture because the society is made up of mini groups who will all backup specifically their own people and will feel no shame in doing so.
Also the point of more likely for ceeb to apply when woman going outside in public more, i can't speak for women. But ceeb also applies when men are staying at home with a less then optimal employment situation. So i think that has to do with gender roles and feminism in general opposing the status quo which has mostly proven to work

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[Riftvalley]

Some people genuinely believe we had no agency, if arabisation was real, we'd be typing in Arabic right now

I think there was an element of Arabisation with the rise of Salafism. Even if people say it is religious based, the jalabeeb styles are Khaleeji. Also, discarding the Shafici madhab which Somalis followed for a thousand years, does seem lowkey like a kind of Arabisation. The Somali scholars don’t really have their own opinions and they even reference Albani, a modern Saudi scholar as verifying Hadith. We even ditched our own way of reciting the Quran East African style (with the exception of Abdulrashid Cali Sufi) for a similar style to Saudi/Yemen. Somali men rarely wear turbans anymore as they do in Sudan.

This used to be considered modest. Now some people say you have to wear jalabeeb at all times.

Somali names are changing to sound more gulf like Rayaan, Ahlam etc. As we have discussed here already, we barely have any more girls being named Nadiifo, Cibaado, Maryama, etc, all still Arabic names with a Somali twist.

Ps. Forgot to add, putting on hijab on toddlers was something Somalis never use to practice. I don’t think even Saudis do that.

 

[Chaseyourdreamzz]

Women get supported by their qabiil back home in those cases

Is this not just a word to describe honour-shame culture a lot or peoples have this
But its notable with somali culture because the society is made up of mini groups who will all backup specifically their own people and will feel no shame in doing so.
Also the point of more likely for ceeb to apply when woman going outside in public more, i can't speak for women. But ceeb also applies when men are staying at home with a less then optimal employment situation. So i think that has to do with gender roles and feminism in general opposing the status quo which has mostly proven to work

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[novanova]

Is this not just a word to describe honour-shame culture a lot or peoples have this
But its notable with somali culture because the society is made up of mini groups who will all backup specifically their own people and will feel no shame in doing so.
Also the point of more likely for ceeb to apply when woman going outside in public more, i can't speak for women. But ceeb also applies when men are staying at home with a less then optimal employment situation. So i think that has to do with gender roles and feminism in general opposing the status quo which has mostly proven to work

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[Guure⁸]

I think there was an element of Arabisation with the rise of Salafism. Even if people say it is religious based, the jalabeeb styles are Khaleeji. Also, discarding the Shafici madhab which Somalis followed for a thousand years, does seem lowkey like a kind of Arabisation. The Somali scholars don’t really have their own opinions and they even reference Albani, a modern Saudi scholar as verifying Hadith. We even ditched our own way of reciting the Quran East African style (with the exception of Abdulrashid Cali Sufi) for a similar style to Saudi/Yemen. Somali men rarely wear turbans anymore as they do in Sudan.

This used to be considered modest. Now some people say you have to wear jalabeeb at all times. View attachment 361836

Somali names are changing to sound more gulf like Rayaan, Ahlam etc. As we have discussed here already, we barely have any more girls being named Nadiifo, Cibaado, Maryama, etc, all still Arabic names with a Somali twist.

Ps. Forgot to add, putting on hijab on toddlers was something Somalis never use to practice. I don’t think even Saudis do that.

There is difference between the religion and culture, the religion is on arabic and that's not arabization , we don't speak Arabic we don't look like Arabs we don't have the same culture so how are we arabized?

 

[Daisybilaawe]

Is this not just a word to describe honour-shame culture a lot or peoples have this
But its notable with somali culture because the society is made up of mini groups who will all backup specifically their own people and will feel no shame in doing so.
Also the point of more likely for ceeb to apply when woman going outside in public more, i can't speak for women. But ceeb also applies when men are staying at home with a less then optimal employment situation. So i think that has to do with gender roles and feminism in general opposing the status quo which has mostly proven to work

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Is Gender Wars just a Product of Modern Time?

 

[cunug3aad]

I think there was an element of Arabisation with the rise of Salafism. Even if people say it is religious based, the jalabeeb styles are Khaleeji. Also, discarding the Shafici madhab which Somalis followed for a thousand years, does seem lowkey like a kind of Arabisation. The Somali scholars don’t really have their own opinions and they even reference Albani, a modern Saudi scholar as verifying Hadith. We even ditched our own way of reciting the Quran East African style (with the exception of Abdulrashid Cali Sufi) for a similar style to Saudi/Yemen. Somali men rarely wear turbans anymore as they do in Sudan.

This used to be considered modest. Now some people say you have to wear jalabeeb at all times. View attachment 361836

Somali names are changing to sound more gulf like Rayaan, Ahlam etc. As we have discussed here already, we barely have any more girls being named Nadiifo, Cibaado, Maryama, etc, all still Arabic names with a Somali twist.

These can be attributed to civil war and dysfunction lingering in the public conscience, and also i think black jilbaab is probably some sort of status symbol, like saying look how modest and arab i am
Also i think the everyone reciting like saudi haram reciters is a result of recording recitations and distributing via tapes or cd or internet especially, the first people to distribute these things are the custodians of the haram, and this means man doesnt need to go to his imam to hear a recitation rathee he can listen to the tape read for him by the man from najd

 

[cunug3aad]

Is Gender Wars just a Product of Modern Time?

Yes, in the olden days gender conflict was quite a one-sided affair, couldnt call it a war

 

[Daisybilaawe]

These can be attributed to civil war and dysfunction lingering in the public conscience, and also i think black jilbaab is probably some sort of status symbol, like saying look how modest and arab i am
Also i think the everyone reciting like saudi haram reciters is a result of recording recitations and distributing via tapes or cd or internet especially, the first people to distribute these things are the custodians of the haram, and this means man doesnt need to go to his imam to hear a recitation rathee he can listen to the tape read for him by the man from najd

What would you say is the solution is?

Would it be able to be reversed and have a more Somali-centric approach or attitude or is it to far gone that we should just settle with it and improve in other ways?

 

[novanova]

Is this not just a word to describe honour-shame culture a lot or peoples have this
But its notable with somali culture because the society is made up of mini groups who will all backup specifically their own people and will feel no shame in doing so.
Also the point of more likely for ceeb to apply when woman going outside in public more, i can't speak for women. But ceeb also applies when men are staying at home with a less then optimal employment situation. So i think that has to do with gender roles and feminism in general opposing the status quo which has mostly proven to work

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[Taintedlove]

Is Gender Wars just a Product of Modern Time?

"Gender wars" there is no such thing. Unless you count women fighting for human rights and men stereotyping feminists

 

[Riftvalley]

There is difference between the religion and culture, the religion is on arabic and that's not arabization , we don't speak Arabic we don't look like Arabs we don't have the same culture so how are we arabized?

Religion and culture often intersect because of human interpretation. Salafiya is one school of interpretation. Somalis of old did not think it was necessary to put hijab on infants (neither did most of the Muslim world btw) until the Dawah from Sonalis students returning from Medina. So while it maybe inspired by religious zeal, these concepts are new to Somali society and introduced from Khaleej. I have also given you the fading out of turbans in favour of cimamat, garbaasaro fading out and so forth. Man are wearing Saudi Bisht for their weddings and people think there is no Arabisation.

 

[cunug3aad]

What would you say is the solution is?

Would it be able to be reversed and have a more Somali-centric approach or attitude or is it to far gone that we should just settle with it and improve in other ways?

I dont exactly see it as a bad thing because nothing necessarily bad results from it
You cant reverse the mindset of grown nin madax adag so i say let the modern culture run its course whilst documenting historical culture to best of ability. Then education reform for the youth with madax jilic so they are actually intelligent, also patriotism (indoctrination) also needed for this plan to work which necessitates a sane government
Patriotism and. Caqli will make the kids in the future look for their own culture rather than copying others which is when documented historical culture strikes.
Requires sacrifice of current generations culture and opportunities but wuu la khsaarey anyway

 

[cunug3aad]

Religion and culture often intersect because of human interpretation. Salafiya is one school of interpretation. Somalis of old did not think it was necessary to put hijab on infants (neither did most of the Muslim world btw) until the Dawah from Sonalis students returning from Medina. So while it maybe inspired by religious zeal, these concepts are new to Somali society and introduced from Khaleej. I have also given you the fading out of turbans in favour of cimamat, garbaasaro fading out and so forth. Man are wearing Saudi Bisht for their weddings and people think there is no Arabisation.

Hijab on infant? Huh? Since when
Maybe i havent seen an infant in a while i never fare well with children

 

[novanova]

Religion and culture often intersect because of human interpretation. Salafiya is one school of interpretation. Somalis of old did not think it was necessary to put hijab on infants (neither did most of the Muslim world btw) until the Dawah from Sonalis students returning from Medina. So while it maybe inspired by religious zeal, these concepts are new to Somali society and introduced from Khaleej. I have also given you the fading out of turbans in favour of cimamat, garbaasaro fading out and so forth. Man are wearing Saudi Bisht for their weddings and people think there is no Arabisation.

Historically, Somalia had local religious institutions who were organic to Somali society, adapted to the local language, customs, and clan structures.

I think the death of these (because of colonialism, Siad Barre era crackdowns and later on civilwar) is what paved the way for ’arabization’ through religion

Many sheikhs and scholars study abroad (Saudi, sometimes Egypt) to be seen as legitimate. When they return, they import not just theology, but a worldview (including politics, dress, language, and even sectarian preferences).

as for clothing, the death of local textile industry plays a role:

Africanews | Somalia's traditional textiles fray at the seams as cheap imports flood markets

What would you say is the solution is?

Would it be able to be reversed and have a more Somali-centric approach or attitude or is it to far gone that we should just settle with it and improve in other ways?

Culture is dynamic not stagnant. The right state-led initiatives can reverse these trends.

 

[LacagChaser]

Our ceeb culture is insufficient. Everything has to be put on display for shock factor and gossip.