Oh No Puntland. A Constitutional Crisis Over Citizenship

[DR OSMAN]

Calls Grow for Puntland to Align Its Constitution with Federal Somalia – Puntland Post

Garowe (PP Commentary) — At last, the Puntland State Government is taking steps to address anomalies in its constitution. At a conference… Sii akhri

puntlandpost.net

 

[DR OSMAN]

The Constitution is the damn law of the land, cayaarta ka daaya, this shit can lead to an absolute kala tag, this isn't some differences in governance, posts, or contracts or day to day political events and conspiracies Somalia focus on.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Who is a PL citizen? That's a messy question but lets agree that PL must be a country that is based on human rights and is fair and just. So please consider your responses is in line with human rights and the role of justice which are the crucial pillars in PL founding principles.

Don't just throw out some random rant, this isn't siyasad, elections, or govt matters, this is constitutional matters.

Well obviously those by birth or naturalized(their are some who live in PL, Love PL, Serve PL and done so for decades) they earned their Puntlandnimo even tho their not from PL parent or even birth wise(Kuma dhalan Puntland) and should they be excluded? What about someone who is a reer PL by parent and birth? What if he is a horgal, shouldn't he lose his citizenship like all traitors in nations do?

I think we need to define and clarify what a Puntite citizen is. He or she must be loyal, love, serve or work, build, and die for PL and preferably has no serious criminal history, we must demand we see their supporting evidence like work history, taxation contribution, damiiin(respectable and recognised local), their sacrifices in war or emergencies, volunteering, etc. A puntite should be defined as a quality.

Maybe his birth location, parents origins can be secondary criteria, a formula can be created to ensure no-one is given citizenship rights without passing their Puntland Nimo isla hisabtan.

U can either abtirso n live overseas waad uu dhalatay PL, ama U can be someone oo ku dhashay PL territory and be native clan or non native clan, these should be secondary issues.

The primary test should always be the character, history, circumstances(refugees, idps), and other serious considerations about who is PL citizen.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I am aware of what happened in PL 1998 assembly which consisted of various clans local to the 5 founding regions and was attended by a wide cross section of society such as academic class, business class, women groups, civilian political class who were in shock at state collapse, the Isimo chambers, former SSDF rebel groups who by then were very regretful of initiating the civil war, USP, SNDU leelkase.

They had huge conflict about should we just sit and wait for Somali govt in Mogadishu which by then(15 failed state conferences), it came at a time when the 97 Cairo conference added another blow by giving presidency and pm to Hawiye, plus we all knew the likelihood of Somali govt emerging was unlikely as the warlords and moryans in hamar did sign a pact after the 4 month war to reject any government and just turn to moryanism and statelessness.

Knowing all this they decided it was safer to ensure a number of clauses is left there for the need to secede if Somalia situation remains unresolvable, I think it was very wise of them and Judging by how other clans are still waiting for Mogadishu at their own expense(hawadle, marehan, etc), imagine we did and lose another 25 years. We must make it clear to Mogadishu, as long as we see hawiye in Hamar, we don't have any confidence in your ability, just be direct, their damn xoolos and U can point to GM and HS and Hamar as proof of their shitty government.

Hawiye dawlad Kuma ficna(most corrupt clan per capita) they need to accept this and not hold the nation hostage over the capital.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I am of the philosophical camp the state should focus on protecting the land and designing laws based on the land, once the land is gone or unstable, the people and anything living on it such as resources, animals are all impacted.

I believe in land based law traditions, I'm not big fan of adding social factors(like language, religion, clan, idealogy) into the mix, but I do recognise preserving language, clan, religion, ethnicty are very important or else someone else will tell you who u r and its not usually great when U lack and identity lol

 

[AbdiBashirJR]

What do you think Puntland relations to galmudug should be like

 

[Malsi]

People should have declared Independence the day we fled South Somalia.

 

[TheLand]

What do you think Puntland relations to galmudug should be like

Like U.S.A. and Mexico.

 

[Yusuf M]

People should have declared Independence the day we fled South Somalia.

Should have declared independent in 98. Somalia will never return. That country died in 1991. What's left in Xamar is a group of people saying unuka leh as well as being prone to endless violence and barbarism. You can't build a proper government with them. Reer PL need to cut South Somalia off before the cancer reaches Puntland.

 

[AbdiBashirJR]

Like U.S.A. and Mexico.

Like U.S.A. and Mexico.

Last time I checked no one from galmudug does tahriib to Puntland, answer question seriously.

 

[TheLand]

Last time I checked no one from galmudug does tahriib to Puntland, answer question seriously.

You want my serious answer sxb, I don’t really care about GM and never really considered it. I have heard some PLers talk about eventually absorbing all of Mudug and the clans that live there if the south were to completely collapse or not offer a compelling alternative. Sometimes I get the feeling though that any future Somali state, even a small federal state in a fractured nation would likely be forced to conquer all of ‘Somalia’ in order to survive otherwise it just leaves a vacuum. Same way Rome started from a single city to conquering all of Italy through war and alliance, Genghis Khan conquering all of the steppe peoples, the first pharaoh uniting the most fertile parts of the Nile, even prophet Muhammad conquering all of Arabia. Just my humble opinion though.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Puntland precedes Somalia in its modern form. When Puntland was founded, Somalia had collapsed. There was a time when puntland was de facto independent and a de facto independent state will have its citizens. Don’t care if the term is politically obsolete.

 

[Som]

This is a step before secessionism. In normal federal countries you can vote in a state if you are a resident. That's it. There's no such thing as "Californian citizenship" . If you are in LA on a vacation you can't obviously vote in California state elections, if you become a resident you can

 

[The Oponian Guild]

This is a step before secessionism. In normal federal countries you can vote in a state if you are a resident. That's it. There's no such thing as "Californian citizenship" . If you are in LA on a vacation you can't obviously vote in California state elections, if you become a resident you can

Puntland was established before Somalia in its current form, puntland has a constitution, Somalia doesn’t. That it has become a glaring issue is due to the fact that villa Somalia hasn’t made any progress in implementing the federal mandate, or finishing the constitution.

In all honesty the mangled corpse of federal Somalia cannot be compared with American federalism. One has been ditched for a cabal and the other been implemented and improved upon for well over 200 years.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

This is a step before secessionism. In normal federal countries you can vote in a state if you are a resident. That's it. There's no such thing as "Californian citizenship" . If you are in LA on a vacation you can't obviously vote in California state elections, if you become a resident you can

if you’re not an asal puntlander, the voting franchise is closed to you. Doesn’t matter if you’ve lived there for 10 or 30 years. This is why it’s unwise to use the American state’s comparison.

 

[TheLand]

This is a step before secessionism. In normal federal countries you can vote in a state if you are a resident. That's it. There's no such thing as "Californian citizenship" . If you are in LA on a vacation you can't obviously vote in California state elections, if you become a resident you can

What if California still exists but TX is occupied along with the rest of the south? What should California do then? Pretend everything is normal?

 

[Afar indhood]

if you’re not an asal puntlander, the voting franchise is closed to you. Doesn’t matter if you’ve lived there for 10 or 30 years. This is why it’s unwise to use the American state’s comparison.

Define asal.

Be honest and just say Puntland unukaa leh.

Each FMS then must define citizenship by clan affiliation.

Ha yaacdo.

 

[3LetterzMM]

This is something that should've been done a longtime ago regardless of your stance on independence/autonomy there has to be an easy way to differentiate Puntlanders from others or foreigners will come take advantage of govt services or initiatives meant to help Puntlanders.

What's gonna happen when we hold an election to vote for the next president of Puntland and a bunch of rival clans flood in and bomb the elections so a puppet they placed wins it? Now we got a shitty president who isn't gonna do shit to benefit the land.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Define asal.

Be honest and just say Puntland unukaa leh.

Each FMS then must define citizenship by clan affiliation.

Ha yaacdo.

Asal = native to Puntland. Simple as.

 

[AbdiBashirJR]

This is something that should've been done a longtime ago regardless of your stance on independence/autonomy there has to be an easy way to differentiate Puntlanders from others or foreigners will come take advantage of govt services or initiatives meant to help Puntlanders.

What's gonna happen when we hold an election to vote for the next president of Puntland and a bunch of rival clans flood in and bomb the elections so a puppet they placed wins it? Now we got a shitty president who isn't gonna do shit to benefit the land.

So basically soft launch if majertinland and everyone else second class citizens, ur Arab salah ur not even MJ.

why must puntlanders even put up with us, it’s always confederalism, more federalism. Why not just secede, makes no sense.