nobody hurt islam more than salafism wahabism

[induction]

This issue gets misconstrued all the time.

The "Muslim philosophers" were people who were way too into Ancient Greek philosophy (particularly Aristotle) and tried to mix Islam with the philosophy of Aristotle. Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Ghazali and others were right to oppose them. You'd have to be crazy to want to attend the khutbah on jummah and listen to the imam citing Quran, Sunnah and Aristotle.

We have "Muslim philosophers" running around today and they're a menace- "liberal Muslims," "feminist Muslims," and I believe to a lesser extent as I think they're a little less prevalent since the fall of the USSR- "Islamic socialists," "Islamic Marxists," etc.

All these people are the modern-day descendants of the "Muslim philosophers" as they do the same thing- they mix Islam with some outside philosophy. And all they do is push deviancy- with them, it's forget Quran and Sunnah- Islam and Quran and Sunnah as well (according to their approach) need to to conform with liberal ideology... or feminist ideology... or Karl Marx.... or Aristotle, etc.

When the scholars of Ahlus Sunnah combatted the encroachment of philosophy into the dīn, they were combatting stuff like people trying to mix Islam with Aristotle- it has nothing to do with telling people they can't use their brains. Islam promotes reasoning but our reasoning needs to be in line with Quran and Sunnah. The "Muslim philosophers"- they would put what Aristotle said over what Quran and Sunnah said. In modern times, you can look at "liberal Muslims," "feminist Muslims", "Islamic socialists" and you can see the same thing happening.

Revelation came through the prophets. Philosophy is through the philosophers. Plato, Aristotle, Kant, etc.

Islam is already perfect. You are never going to improve Islam. And you will never improve Islam by mixing Islam with Aristotle... or Kant... or Nietzsche... or Hegel... or Confucius.

"Muslim philosophy" is and always has been a menace and the entire agenda behind the narrative being pushed that glorifies it and condemns the fight that was carried out against it... the entire agenda behind this narrative being pushed is to make Muslims more open to Western philosophy and thus to Westernization. Behind the veil of its rhetoric, it's just a plot to Westernize Muslims.

i can't speak for ibn-taymiya but imam ghazali was not against all of philosophy. he was just against like going onto extremes with it (mainly 1) denying bodily resurrection, 2) questioning God's knowledge, 3) the eternity of the world). as long as they don't hold any of those 3 views, he was mostly ok with it. i don't see any problem with mixing philosophy with the religion as long as you don't go to extremes. Mixing rationality/philosophy with the deen is what got as proofs for God's existence, what to do in the case of apparent conflict between reason and the literal meaning of scripture, etc. The only way islam can survive in my opinion, is to embrace rationality. Islam is not an anti-rational religion so i really don't get why people fear philosophy.

 

[induction]

"Either you ignorant or an Ashari sufi. If you did your research you would know that Salafis are the most outspoken against terrorism and suicide bombings. The reason why you connect Salafism with terrorism is due to terrorist khawarij claiming to be Salafis. If you knew the definition of Salafiyyah you would claim it too as it means following the salaf."

Also the founders modern terrorism where Ashari sufis, Hassan Al Banna and Sayyid Qutb. The one who first used suicide bombings were Taliban and they are mostly Ashari Sufi deobandis. Stop saying all kinds of shit without doing any research

i wasn't saying they were terrorists, even tho i think that, i don't have any proof so i just keep it to myself. And yes, i am an ashari. not a sufi yet cuz am busy with school but when i get time i'll def look into sufism as well.

 

[Omar del Sur]

i can't speak for ibn-taymiya but imam ghazali was not against all of philosophy. he was just against like going onto extremes with it (mainly 1) denying bodily resurrection, 2) questioning God's knowledge, 3) the eternity of the world). as long as they don't hold any of those 3 views, he was mostly ok with it. i don't see any problem with mixing philosophy with the religion as long as you don't go to extremes. Mixing rationality/philosophy with the deen is what got as proofs for God's existence, what to do in the case of apparent conflict between reason and the literal meaning of scripture, etc. The only way islam can survive in my opinion, is to embrace rationality. Islam is not an anti-rational decision so i really don't get why people fear philosophy.

"Islam is not an anti-rational decision so i really don't get why people fear philosophy."

oh so Ibn Taymiyyah and those of us who don't want Islam to get mixed with philosophy... we "fear philosophy"... we are philosophyphobes? I think it's funny that you use the same rhetorical gimmick as gay activists but anyways...

"i don't see any problem with mixing philosophy with the religion... Mixing rationality/philosophy with the deen is what got as proofs for God's existence, what to do in the case of apparent conflict between reason and the literal meaning of scripture, etc."

Ok, there is a gimmick that people who try to push this stuff do- which is they try to conflate reason/reasoning with philosophy. It's something like this:

A- "Philosophy just means reason, bro"
B- Islam is not anti-reason
C- Therefore it is acceptable to mix Islam with Aristotle

This actually is the fallacy of non sequitur. This whole line of reasoning is based on playing a game with language.

Anyways, I don't think it's proper to conflate philosophy with reason. The word is Greek and originally was referring specifically to Ancient Greek philosophy.

But for sake of argument, let's say one definition of philosophy is simply identical to "reason".

Ok but philosophy is also used in another sense which refers to a body of tradition- the Western philosophical tradition (Socrates, Kant, etc.) in Western context or figures like Lao Tzu and Confucius if we're talking about Eastern philosophy.

Now for sake of simplicity, let's throw out Eastern philosophy- I don't think anyone here is a Confucian.

If by "philosophy" you just mean reason- there is no objection to reason as long as it is line with Quran and Sunnah. But if what you are referring to would include "the Western philosophical tradition"- there is no way this is acceptable.

If we are having a discussion on how to correctly interpret a verse of the Quran- you think we should refer to Aristotle and Kant? When it comes to sharia we should refer to Nieztsche? That would be absurd.

No way should Islam be mixed with the Western philosophical tradition- do you agree?

 

[induction]

"Islam is not an anti-rational decision so i really don't get why people fear philosophy."

oh so Ibn Taymiyyah and those of us who don't want Islam to get mixed with philosophy... we "fear philosophy"... we are philosophyphobes? I think it's funny that you use the same rhetorical gimmick as gay activists but anyways...

"i don't see any problem with mixing philosophy with the religion... Mixing rationality/philosophy with the deen is what got as proofs for God's existence, what to do in the case of apparent conflict between reason and the literal meaning of scripture, etc."

Ok, there is a gimmick that people who try to push this stuff do- which is they try to conflate reason/reasoning with philosophy. It's something like this:

A- "Philosophy just means reason, bro"
B- Islam is not anti-reason
C- Therefore it is acceptable to mix Islam with Aristotle

This actually is the fallacy of non sequitur. This whole line of reasoning is based on playing a game with language.

Anyways, I don't think it's proper to conflate philosophy with reason. The word is Greek and originally was referring specifically to Ancient Greek philosophy.

But for sake of argument, let's say one definition of philosophy is simply identical to "reason".

Ok but philosophy is also used in another sense which refers to a body of tradition- the Western philosophical tradition (Socrates, Kant, etc.) in Western context or figures like Lao Tzu and Confucius if we're talking about Eastern philosophy.

Now for sake of simplicity, let's throw out Eastern philosophy- I don't think anyone here is a Confucian.

If by "philosophy" you just mean reason- there is no objection to reason as long as it is line with Quran and Sunnah. But if what you are referring to would include "the Western philosophical tradition"- there is no way this is acceptable.

If we are having a discussion on how to correctly interpret a verse of the Quran- you think we should refer to Aristotle and Kant? When it comes to sharia we should refer to Nieztsche? That would be absurd.

No way should Islam be mixed with the Western philosophical tradition- do you agree?

ok, i see it now. if i understand it correctly your whole argument is "the religion is prefect, if the prophet didn't use philosophy why should we?". and i disagree with that. and yes, i think you are afraid of it. instead of saying "what parts of philosophy will benefit the religion" you threw out the whole thing cuz it's "western". you are no better than the ones that deny the whole of science cuz its from the "west". To answer your question, like many before me, i don't see a problem with studying philosophy and incorporating the useful parts of it with islam.

 

[Omar del Sur]

ok, i see it now. if i understand it correctly your whole argument is "the religion is prefect, if the prophet didn't use philosophy why should we?". and i disagree with that.

"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion."

-Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:3

We know from this verse that Islam is perfect and complete. You cannot add anything to Islam. The best any of us can do is adhere to the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). And none of us can equal Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). We should just do our best to stick to the sunnah. We shouldn't try to add or introduce anything into the dīn.

Also, Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah. It's not based on philosophy.

instead of saying "what parts of philosophy will benefit the religion" you threw out the whole thing cuz it's "western". you are no better than the ones that deny the whole of science cuz its from the "west".

Who denies the whole of science? I don't know of anyone who claims water won't freeze at a certain temperature or ice won't melt at a certain temperature.

Anyways, what you say here is a strawman. I don't support Islam being mixed with philosophy whether it's Aristotle or Confucius. Islam shouldn't be mixed with outside influences. It should be understood in its purest form in accordance with the earliest generations of Muslims.

To answer your question, like many before me, i don't see a problem with studying philosophy and incorporating the useful parts of it with islam.

Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah, not philosophy. We should stick with pure Islam and not try to add new things into it.

 

[JaredAbdullahiKushner2000]

i wasn't saying they were terrorists, even tho i think that, i don't have any proof so i just keep it to myself. And yes, i am an ashari. not a sufi yet cuz am busy with school but when i get time i'll def look into sufism as well.

Where is Allah?

 

[induction]

"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion."

-Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:3

We know from this verse that Islam is perfect and complete. You cannot add anything to Islam. The best any of us can do is adhere to the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). And none of us can equal Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). We should just do our best to stick to the sunnah. We shouldn't try to add or introduce anything into the dīn.

Also, Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah. It's not based on philosophy.



Who denies the whole of science? I don't know of anyone who claims water won't freeze at a certain temperature or ice won't melt at a certain temperature.

Anyways, what you say here is a strawman. I don't support Islam being mixed with philosophy whether it's Aristotle or Confucius. Islam shouldn't be mixed with outside influences. It should be understood in its purest form in accordance with the earliest generations of Muslims.



Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah, not philosophy. We should stick with pure Islam and not try to add new things into it.

and that is where we fundamentally disagree on. this isn't going anywhere so lets just agree to disagree.

 

[Omar del Sur]

and that is where we fundamentally disagree on. this isn't going anywhere so lets just agree to disagree.

Do you not agree that Islam is perfect and complete? Do you not agree that we shouldn't try to add new things into Islam?

 

[induction]

Do you not agree that Islam is perfect and complete? Do you not agree that we shouldn't try to add new things into Islam?

i don't see the adding of new things as bad ( i believe in good bidah and think parts of philosophy fall under that)

 

[TekNiKo]

Wahabbis claim Nabi Muhammad SAW parents are in hell wal ciyaadu billah!

 

[induction]

Where is Allah?

i've seen where this leads in youtube. so ama just not answer .

 

[Haragwafi]

When are you jaahils going to stop making anti Islam threads

If you don't like the diin and want to do haram stuff since you guys are qaxooti or children of qaxootis then don't follow the diin and at end of the day you're going to be questioned by Allah swt for what you did in your lifetime

 

[aduunka220]

When are you jaahils going to stop making anti Islam threads

If you don't like the diin and want to do haram stuff since you guys are qaxooti or children of qaxootis then don't follow the diin and at end of the day you're going to be questioned by Allah swt for what you did in your lifetime

lol how is this anti islam thread

 

[Haragwafi]

Wahabbis claim Nabi Muhammad SAW parents are in hell wal ciyaadu billah!

His parents عليه افضل السلام weren't muslims

 

[Haragwafi]

lol how is this anti islam thread

You would understand if you read what these degenerate jaahils are saying of stuff they don't know about

 

[Haragwafi]

Wahabissm/Salafism is a cancer that
must be eliminated it has nothing to do with Islam but is a Najdi cult created by a madman who committed massacres in Hijaaz. The real scholars celebrated Mawliid like Imam Nawawi Rahimuhullah

Mawlid is an innovation first done by the raafidi Shia'as in Egypt and you're celebrating the day of the prophet عليه افضل السلام died as we don't know the date of his birth but we know from hadiths that he was born in the day of Monday and every week he صلي الله وعليه وسلم used to fast that day and if you truly love the prophet fast on Monday's as he عليه صلاة وسلام used to do as it's a Sunnah.

 

[TekNiKo]

His parents عليه افضل السلام weren't muslims

His parents عليه افضل السلام weren't muslims

Liar may the curse of Allah be upon those who have hatred for Nabigeena!

There are those who say that the parents of the Messenger of

800x600 Question:There are those who say that the parents of the Messenger of God are polytheists (mushrikin) and that they are in the hell fire. I

www.dar-alifta.org

 

[Haragwafi]

Liar may the curse of Allah be upon those who have hatred for Nabigeena!

There are those who say that the parents of the Messenger of

800x600 Question:There are those who say that the parents of the Messenger of God are polytheists (mushrikin) and that they are in the hell fire. I

www.dar-alifta.org

Ya Jaahil Egyptian site isn't an evidence or a hujjah for muslims.

Here's a Hadiths that the prophet parents are in hell

حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادٌ، عَنْ ثَابِتٍ، عَنْ أَنَسٍ، أَنَّ رَجُلاً، قَالَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ أَيْنَ أَبِي قَالَ ‏"‏ أَبُوكَ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَلَمَّا قَفَّى قَالَ ‏"‏ إِنَّ أَبِي وَأَبَاكَ فِي النَّارِ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Anas reported:
Verily, a person said: Messenger of Allah, where is my father? He said: (He) is in the Fire. When he turned away, he (the Holy Prophet) called him and said: Verily my father and your father are in the Fire.


عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : اسْتَأْذَنْتُ رَبِّي أَنْ أَسْتَغْفِرَ لأُمِّي فَلَمْ يَأْذَنْ لِي ، وَاسْتَأْذَنْتُهُ أَنْ أَزُورَ قَبْرَهَا فَأَذِنَ لِي .

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger, (ﷺ) as saying:
I sought permission to beg forgiveness for my mother, but He did not grant it to me. I sought permission from Him to visit her grave, and He granted it (permission) to me.

Both hadiths are from Sahih Muslim