Nilotes found to carry Haplogroup T (T-M70) shared with Fulani, Egyptians & South Cushites

[haile_selassie]

In around 7000 BCE a branch of haplogroup T ( T-PF7455 ) went into the Sahara and the specific clade became ancestral to Fulanis, Chadians, Sudanese, Nubians, Ancient Egyptians (sample : 2516), South Cushites (Rendile, Samburu) and even a Nilote was observed. T was the only Eurasian haplogroup found amongst Nilotes. This saharan clade is mostly carried today by descendants of the same area. While the famous Somali clade came much later via Arabians (Bab El Mandab, Yemen).

The Gambian samples are Fulani (specifically Adamawa and Woodabe)

T-M70 in Nilotes ( Karamojong , Uganda )

 

[haile_selassie]

Entrance of T into Africa from the Levant visualized by "Northwest African Neolithic initiated by migrants from Iberia and Levant" a 2023 study .

 

[Midas]

Okay that's really really fucking weird. Theres no way that this t-haplohroup is from the middle east because we don't see any evidence of migration from the Levant into eygpt for like another 2,000-3000 years after this . So its doesnt seem physical possible youd find a haplogroup this old among these kinds of pouplation.

Haplogroup t always struck me as a haplogroup with a very weird distribution. But this is next level stuff. The current explanation of the spread of t is with the holocene and the neolithic revolution. This happened around 11,000 years ago. Yet we have a 9,000 year old haplogroup of supposedly middle eastern orgin deep in africa ?

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Okay that's really really fucking weird. Theres no way that this t-haplohroup is from the middle east because we don't see any evidence of migration from the Levant into eygpt for like another 2,000-3000 years after this . So its doesnt seem physical possible youd find a haplogroup this old among these kinds of pouplation.

Haplogroup t always struck me as a haplogroup with a very weird distribution. But this is next level stuff. The current explanation of the spread of t is with the holocene and the neolithic revolution. This happened around 11,000 years ago. Yet we have a 9,000 year old haplogroup of supposedly middle eastern orgin deep in africa ?

The highest diversity of haplogroup T is found between Iran, the Levant and the Caucasus/Anatolia. It descends from the very haplogroup F, which is the OG lineage borne by the first (proper) Eurasian bottlenecked population.
The earliest evidences of the introduction of Eurasian derived Y-DNA into Africa are with the Northwest African Neolithic populations. The remains found in Skhirat in Morocco, Hergla in Tunisia and others highly differed from previous Iberomaurusian populations because of their elevated European huter Gatherer and/or (sometimes mixed) Neolithic Levantine ancestry.

How does this correlate with Y-DNA ? Remains with elevated European Hunter Gatherer ancestry (or Early European Farmer) bore haplogroup G, whereas the ones enriched with Neolithic Levantine ancestry had 2 distinct branches of T (Skhirat and Hergla remains). The clade OP is talking about is one borne by these Neolithic individuals. This branch definitely represents the main one found among Afrasian-speaking and related African peoples. You have it in Egypt, Sudan, the Horn, the Maghreb as well as Chad and the broader Sahel.

Nilotic speakers interact a lot with Afrasian speakers. There's nothing really surprising seing some of them share Y-DNA or even Mtdna with them. Some of them have substantial amount of E-M35.

Haplogroup T in Habeshas and Somalis mainly come from Bronze to Iron age Arabia. Even though this Neolithic clade is found in Ethiopia as well.

 

[haile_selassie]

Okay that's really really fucking weird. Theres no way that this t-haplohroup is from the middle east because we don't see any evidence of migration from the Levant into eygpt for like another 2,000-3000 years after this . So its doesnt seem physical possible youd find a haplogroup this old among these kinds of pouplation.

Haplogroup t always struck me as a haplogroup with a very weird distribution. But this is next level stuff. The current explanation of the spread of t is with the holocene and the neolithic revolution. This happened around 11,000 years ago. Yet we have a 9,000 year old haplogroup of supposedly middle eastern orgin deep in africa ?

I agree it is quite intriguing. T-M70 has extremely deep ties in Africa since the Mid-Holocene . IT IS indeed from the Levant, this Africa phenomenon is simply due to the fact that T was the first Eurasian haplogroup to actually settle as paternally-led spread (alongside R1b-V88) in Africa.

The reason we know T is from the Levant is mainly due to 2 reasons. 1. Its ancestor is K which is also the ancestor of most other Eurasian haplogroup like R, I, J, Q, etc. T was just one of the earliest to branch off and since its brother L is in India we assume T originated in West Asia a bit closer to Africa compared to its siblings like R who evolved far deeper in Asia connecting to Siberia. T avoided the Ice, rather going to the Green Sahara unlike other Eurasian haplos that kept moving.

2. The oldest sample ever found in the world of T was in the South Levant ( Ain Ghazal, Jordan), in fact this was the oldest Levant PPNB man EVER FOUND in the world was T (besides African E).

This info may be appalling to some because T is usually dismissed in conversations, when in reality it is a foundation of Proto-Semitic culture, the spreader of Afro-Asiatic culture and was dominant. T's dominance is intimidating to researchers who seek certain agendas/narratives because it will break them, and form new rabbit holes.

This info will become more widespread with time.

 

[haile_selassie]

The highest diversity of haplogroup T is found between Iran, the Levant and the Caucasus/Anatolia. It descends from the very haplogroup F, which is the OG lineage borne by the first (proper) Eurasian bottlenecked population.
The earliest evidences of the introduction of Eurasian derived Y-DNA into Africa are with the Northwest African Neolithic populations. The remains found in Skhirat in Morocco, Hergla in Tunisia and others highly differed from previous Iberomaurusian populations because of their elevated European huter Gatherer and/or (sometimes mixed) Neolithic Levantine ancestry.

How does this correlate with Y-DNA ? Remains with elevated European Hunter Gatherer ancestry (or Early European Farmer) bore haplogroup G, whereas the ones enriched with Neolithic Levantine ancestry had 2 distinct branches of T (Skhirat and Hergla remains). The clade OP is talking about is one borne by these Neolithic individuals. This branch definitely represents the main one found among Afrasian-speaking and related African peoples. You have it in Egypt, Sudan, the Horn, the Maghreb as well as Chad and the broader Sahel.View attachment 372339
Nilotic speakers interact a lot with Afrasian speakers. There's nothing really surprising seing some of them share Y-DNA or even Mtdna with them. Some of them have substantial amount of E-M35.

Haplogroup T in Habeshas and Somalis mainly come from Bronze to Iron age Arabia. Even though this Neolithic clade is found in Ethiopia as well.

In fact, the skhirat SKH003 and SKH002 (T holders) samples differentiated from old North African samples because the T samples LACKED european neolithic ancestry and contained a new profile : Local North African (Berber) + PPNB Levantine ancestry.

When the researchers attempted to model SKH with a European Neolithic source, it outright Failed.

The G2a anatolian farmers spread maternally, they spread their ancestry, not their lineage.

 

[Midas]

The highest diversity of haplogroup T is found between Iran, the Levant and the Caucasus/Anatolia. It descends from the very haplogroup F, which is the OG lineage borne by the first (proper) Eurasian bottlenecked population.
The earliest evidences of the introduction of Eurasian derived Y-DNA into Africa are with the Northwest African Neolithic populations. The remains found in Skhirat in Morocco, Hergla in Tunisia and others highly differed from previous Iberomaurusian populations because of their elevated European huter Gatherer and/or (sometimes mixed) Neolithic Levantine ancestry.

How does this correlate with Y-DNA ? Remains with elevated European Hunter Gatherer ancestry (or Early European Farmer) bore haplogroup G, whereas the ones enriched with Neolithic Levantine ancestry had 2 distinct branches of T (Skhirat and Hergla remains). The clade OP is talking about is one borne by these Neolithic individuals. This branch definitely represents the main one found among Afrasian-speaking and related African peoples. You have it in Egypt, Sudan, the Horn, the Maghreb as well as Chad and the broader Sahel.View attachment 372339
Nilotic speakers interact a lot with Afrasian speakers. There's nothing really surprising seing some of them share Y-DNA or even Mtdna with them. Some of them have substantial amount of E-M35.

Haplogroup T in Habeshas and Somalis mainly come from Bronze to Iron age Arabia. Even though this Neolithic clade is found in Ethiopia as well.

I think theres something i have to clear up . People seem to heavily overestimate migrations from the Levant into eygpt.

The fact that even though you had agriculture in the levant by 9000 b.c it didnt cross over the Sinai penisula into eygpt until after 5000 b.c . That is 4,000 years! Do you realize the implication that even after thousands of years that even the small handful of people it would have required to spread farming couldn't cross the Sinai to move into eygpt ?

Ive mentioned this before but it seems like nobody anywhere seems to grasp how big a barrier the Sinai penisula was. Yet people constantly talk about neolthic levantine pouplations moving into eygpt as if this was some common historical event.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

In fact, the skhirat SKH003 and SKH002 (T holders) samples differentiated from old North African samples because the T samples LACKED european neolithic ancestry and contained a new profile : Local North African (Berber) + PPNB Levantine ancestry.

When the researchers attempted to model SKH with a European Neolithic source, it outright Failed.

View attachment 372341

The G2a anatolian farmers spread maternally, they spread their ancestry, not their lineage.

I might have poorly explained myself.
I meant to differentiate two independant introductions of Eurasian Y-DNA into the Maghreb.
Skhirat and Hergla remains from the Middle Neolithic period are associated with Levantine ancestry. Their populations introduced T to the region.
Other sites associated with European ancestry from the Early Neolithic (like Kaf Taht el-Ghar, Morocco) were also shown to have brought haplogroup G. Both ktg004 and ktg006 are positive for G.

I think theres something i have to clear up . People seem to heavily overestimate migrations from the Levant into eygpt.

How can we overestimate, we didn't put any figures haha
Read this study. They touch upon neolithization of Northwest Africa. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10266975/

 

[Midas]

I might have poorly explained myself.
I meant to differentiate two independant introductions of Eurasian Y-DNA into the Maghreb.
Skhirat and Hergla remains from the Middle Neolithic period are associated with Levantine ancestry. Their populations introduced T to the region.
Other sites associated with European ancestry from the Early Neolithic (like Kaf Taht el-Ghar, Morocco) were also shown to have brought haplogroup G. Both ktg004 and ktg006 are positive for G.

How can we overestimate, we didn't put any figures haha
Read this study. They touch upon neolithization of Northwest Africa. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10266975/

By overestimating I meant that in most of the conversations there is the common assumption of neolthic levantine ancestry. But if these Neolithic levantine farmers actually crossed the Sinai then why dont we see any farming in eygpt until 5000-4500 b.c ? which is also BTW, basically the end of the Neolithic and beginning of the chacolithic.





also the levantine ancestry they found is 6000 b.p which is baiscally 4000 b.c after agriculture was introduced into eygpt.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

By overestimating I meant that in most of the conversations there is the common assumption of neolthic levantine ancestry. But if these Neolithic levantine farmers actually crossed the Sinai then why dont we see any farming in eygpt until 5000-4500 b.c ? which is also BTW, basically the end of the Neolithic and beginning of the chacolithic.





also the levantine ancestry they found is 6000 b.p which is baiscally 4000 b.c after agriculture was introduced into eygpt.

I don't see much contradiction here tbh. Not everything has to fit a single narrative. Migrations happened at all times, some more important than others, some insignificant, some without even leaving a single evidence of their existance...