Always on point. 🫡
Nilo-Saharan ancestry in Somalis?
- Thread starter Zak12
- Start date
Always on point. 🫡
I found some interesting reddit posts that tries to use linguistics to support Somalis coming from the south, complete with a timeline.
The link below is the linguistics study.
@Apostle @Shimbiris thoughts?
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The link below is the linguistics study.
@Apostle @Shimbiris thoughts?
Btw I have read your older posts about why the theory isn't plausible so don't worry, I'm not completely ignorant, I just don't know much about linguistics.
@Apollo has long put this to rest. Read this entire thread with him and the khaniis @Grant
CULTURE - Af-Jiido: My first time hearing this Eastern Cushitic Language in Somalia with 100k Speakers.
I find Rendile to be more inteligible I read somewhere it has different phonology and sentence structure from somali and may be closer to Hadiya . :damnmusic::ohhhdamn: Any one familiar? @Balaayo , @CirkaIyoDhulka , @Apollo @Shimbiris
www.somalispot.com
Honestly the whole omo-tana thing is extremely suspect. Several lanaguges in this category like jiddu probably have their origins in the fact that before the oromo migrations the slaves somalis were selling were not oromos but highland east cushtic and maybe even omotic speakers . In the riverine jubba Valley regions this proably lead to the emergence of these lanaguges with radically altered characteristics
Why are you posting this retard xD omo tana theory is dead, he kept arguing with me on it, even sent him new studies.
Didn't know it was you. That sub is honestly weird, they keep talking about Somali phenotype and insist we have a "Nilotic" owing to having that ancestry.
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The alchemist
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I don't think Somalis are bottlenecked with regard to clade diversity, except in potentially later smaller introductions. Now I believe the Somali starting line is merely a founder effect migration. The E-M293 seems like a south-north expansion (unless we see samples in the north with TMRCA that have enough time-depth). T-Y313570 had a population reduction if it was not a recent introduction.
One HJ individual here had E-V16. Something tells me it is not an endemic continuity but an Arab introduction or perhaps expansion from other groups of the region. It has appeared in 2-3 Ethiopian individuals and is rare there, too, but is more present among Arabs. One Amhara shares a common ancestor with Yemenis 1600 years ago, and one Saudi and Yemeni upstream 2100 years ago. So it's not even basal or in its own lane. We have enough knowledge on Oromo and Amhara haplogroups to know that it cannot be highly present among them. And that is why I don't think we can chalk this up to sample size asymmetry, as that would show some frequency among Amhara and Oromo to justify Arabs being an upscaled resolution on that diversity.
However, except for Aaroid, who seems to be very E-M329 heavy, the other Omotic peoples are very undersampled and could be the last plausible spot for a potential source, since I think Omotics might have been a people that succumbed to the slave trade. Then again, Omotic genetics is ubiquitous among Afro-Asiatic Ethiopians, and it does not appear to be present at an appreciable level all throughout, so it seems unlikely.
The alchemist
VIP
Should be called Soomaali, not Omo-Tana. They used to assume these languages originated in those southern regions. The true picture is that they spread from the north to the south in several periods.
@Zak12 Soomaali split from Oromo before they even arrived in the region, so that is irrelevant. Oromos either arrived in their region by walking down to Kenya, then northwards, or through the southwest from the north. They arrived in the region before us. Linguistically, we're closer to Oromos, but they are genetically mixed, whilst Afars belong partly to the northern peninsula genetic sphere, being a variation of whatever Somali is, and Semitic influence from the north. There is a reason why using all sources for me relegates a significant amount to Saho (60%), for the simple fact that they have significant Lowland Eastern Cushitic ancestry. And it explains why an Afar with no relation in Djibuti had half her ancestry be Somali, and the rest Habash and minor Arab.
Afar-Saho had Lowland Eastern Cushitic genetic influence and relations despite being more distant linguistically, and Oromos, although our closest people, are very mixed. People underestimate how mixed Oromos really are. They have high Cushitic ancestry but really source much of that from a mixture of other peoples who are heavily Cushitic and Semitic. Like a Wolayta is very similar to Borana... And guess what, Oromos, who are more Eastern Cushitic, absorbed that through expansion. Most of the Cushitic ancestry in many in the north is just through Semitic ancestry. It's really like this. Oromos are Ethiopian mixed and their core Cushitic ancestry, even if striking high affinity with Somalis, is way more reduced than people think relative to the overall Cushitic they got through other sources.
@Zak12 Soomaali split from Oromo before they even arrived in the region, so that is irrelevant. Oromos either arrived in their region by walking down to Kenya, then northwards, or through the southwest from the north. They arrived in the region before us. Linguistically, we're closer to Oromos, but they are genetically mixed, whilst Afars belong partly to the northern peninsula genetic sphere, being a variation of whatever Somali is, and Semitic influence from the north. There is a reason why using all sources for me relegates a significant amount to Saho (60%), for the simple fact that they have significant Lowland Eastern Cushitic ancestry. And it explains why an Afar with no relation in Djibuti had half her ancestry be Somali, and the rest Habash and minor Arab.
Afar-Saho had Lowland Eastern Cushitic genetic influence and relations despite being more distant linguistically, and Oromos, although our closest people, are very mixed. People underestimate how mixed Oromos really are. They have high Cushitic ancestry but really source much of that from a mixture of other peoples who are heavily Cushitic and Semitic. Like a Wolayta is very similar to Borana... And guess what, Oromos, who are more Eastern Cushitic, absorbed that through expansion. Most of the Cushitic ancestry in many in the north is just through Semitic ancestry. It's really like this. Oromos are Ethiopian mixed and their core Cushitic ancestry, even if striking high affinity with Somalis, is way more reduced than people think relative to the overall Cushitic they got through other sources.
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There is the vocabulary argument he is making. I've never heard anything about key Nilo-Saharan words let alone grammar similarities being in af-Soomali. The whole stuff about qpGraph using Dinka as the closest approximate to our non-AEA component therefore we have Nilotic ancestry is also questionable.
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