Nilo-Saharan ancestry in Somalis?

[Zak12]

Do Somalis have any additional Nilo-Saharan ancestry on top of our base AEA? I heard that there is evidence of a second admixing event between lowland Cushites and a Nilotic population similar to the Dinka because the Somali language supposedly contains key Nilo-Saharan loanwords in the lexicon for things like "stone" and "water". It may also be the reason why Dinkas are used as a proxy for our SSA ancestry.

 

[Apostle]

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[Xareen]

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[Emir of Zayla]

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One of y’all who knows a lot on the whole genetic origin and relation of Horners on the Nile Valley from Neolithic to when they migrated to the Horn should make some thread explaining all of it. It’s hard keeping track and piecing together some of the knowledge you all drop on random posts lol, especially for people who don’t know anything about genetics or population history and whatnot

 

[Xabeshi]

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That's a new one, feels yuppie

 

[Midas]

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Damn I dont know how i forgot about this post since it actually supported my idea about rapid 5th millennium b.c migration into eygpt.


You guys know genetics better than me so the fact that upper eygptian and lower nubian pouplations have very specific subclades of e-m78 they only share with somalks . wheras all the pouplations surrounding somalis have incredible e haplogroup diversity from e-v1515 to e-v22 seems like it should be taken as evidence that there was no migration from the eastern desert /red sea hills into somalia.

 

[Midas]

In the 6th millennium b.c At the same time as this new pouplation was arriving in Upper eygpt/lower nubia. Red sea coastal trade in afar and coastal Yemen obsidian forms wirh most of this obsidian being from the afar region.

Also if this new group wasn't arriving from the south or west where the forager pouplations remained and it wasn't arriving from the north. Then that only leaves the east as the direction they migrated from which . But since it was also a desert region at the time then coastal migration seems more likely.

Theres also the fact that both e-v12 and e-v32 considering their tmrca dates couldn't have formed in the Nile Valley.

 

[Muscab81819]

We were 50 percent west euruasin but the extra nilotic made it 43

 

[Zak12]

@Apostle @Xareen we know that the Iron Age Kenyan Pastoralists were 50% Natufian like whereas Somalis are 43% natufian like so could that be proof of additional nilo-saharan ancestry?

 

[Rayaale]

Yes we do have additional Nilotic like ancestry, average Somali is like 60/40

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Yes we do have additional Nilotic like ancestry, average Somali is like 60/40

More like 55/45, 60/40 is Deep South.

me:

 

[Shimbiris]

More like 55/45, 60/40 is Deep South.

me:
View attachment 376327

He is referencing our true Eurasian to SSA scores where we are indeed about 40/60. What you are showing is our overall MENA ancestry vs SSA which is indeed about 45/55 given that our MENA ancestors had some SSA themselves. An there is no such difference between whatever you mean by "deep south" and the rest. The most outlier-ish are some Kenyan ruralites with seemingly Borana-related admixture that only makes them like 2% less MENA and Eurasian than everyone else.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

He is referencing our true Eurasian to SSA scores where we are indeed about 40/60. What you are showing is our overall MENA ancestry vs SSA which is indeed about 45/55 given that our MENA ancestors had some SSA themselves. An there is no such difference between whatever you mean by "deep south" and the rest. The most outlier-ish are some Kenyan ruralites with seemingly Borana-related admixture that only makes them like 2% less MENA and Eurasian than everyone else.

Boingboing

 

[Shimbiris]

Boingboing
View attachment 376331

What exactly is the "boingboing" here? Did you even skim the post I linked for 15 seconds or read my earlier reply to you at all? You'd maybe notice that when I did a PCA position reconstruction for Somalis' Eurasian Vs. SSA scores I got 42% Vs 58% when rounded. Nearly identical to what you show above (the Somali average gets the same numbers as you using those samples). And Pickrell et al. 2013 with its methods gets 38% to 62% which is also quite close. I just hit a mid point between them at 40/60 which your result also fits within. What point are even trying to make, man?

If you use Natufian instead of Dzudzuana above the "Eurasian" will go up, probably to 45-47% or so cos, like I said, our MENA ancestors were part SSA themselves.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

What exactly is the "boingboing" here? Did you even skim the post I linked for 15 seconds or read my earlier reply to you at all? You'd maybe notice that when I did a PCA position reconstruction for Somalis' Eurasian Vs. SSA scores I got 42% Vs 58% when rounded. Nearly identical to what you show above (the Somali average gets the same numbers as you using those samples). And Pickrell et al. 2013 with its methods gets 38% to 62% which is also quite close. I just hit a mid point between them at 40/60 which your result also fits within. What point are even trying to make, man?

If you use Natufian instead of Dzudzuana above the "Eurasian" will go up, probably to 45-47% or so cos, like I said, our MENA ancestors were part SSA themselves.

I’m just suspicious about the 60/40 average you came up with, 58/42, and 62/38 means there’s a 4% variation in SSA admixture, might not seem a large difference but that could mean those on either end are distant to each other as a Englishman and a Dutchman!

Also curious to know amongst whom does SSA /WE admixture peak?

 

[Shimbiris]

I’m just suspicious about the 60/40 average you came up with, 58/42, and 62/38 means there’s a 4% variation in SSA admixture, might not seem a large difference but that could mean those on either end are distant to each other as a Englishman and a Dutchman!

What? The population results move together. So if the average becomes 62-38 then the variance among Somlis is the usual 2% of 38-40% for Eurasian ancestry depending on the person. If the average becomes 42-58 then the population variation is now 42-44%. Anyway, a 4% variance between the methodologies is not wild at all. It's if anything quite remarkable that two totally different methods (Pickrell's and the PCA positions) come so close in estimates (basically 40/60).

Also curious to know amongst whom does SSA /WE admixture peak?

Among Somalis? No one, really. All Somalis are basically the same as far as I've seen. Very homogenous ethnic group. Only outliers with recent outside admixture (Oromo, Habesha, Yemeni etc.) tend to cut from the average noticeably. Usually known within their fam and easily visible in their 23andme results or what have you. You and me are good examples of the homogeneity found among the rest of us non rare outliers. Unrelated and only distantly tribally related yet you, me and a random Isaaq friend of mine whose sample I was fiddling with yesterday all have the same admixture level. The whole ethnic group, when you bar outliers with recent outside admixture, has a variation of ~2%.

Within the Horn among Cushites and Ethiosemites it seems to go something like this, last I recall:

Borana Oromos>Somalis~Some Oromos>Some Oromos~Sidamics>Agaws~Afars>Habeshas>Tigres~Bejas

The least admixed of the above seem maybe ~35% Eurasian the most admixed about ~55% or so.