Youre free to not believe Jinns or Islam. That is not anyother person's jurisdiction. Our jurisdiction is only Crime/sin against others.
Nature of Sin
- Thread starter AutumnBreeze
- Start date
Well congratulations you are secularist also, it's not about who is right or wrong but preserving their rights only, as u said the court system should be 'blind' and the state should also be blind to it's citizens and not choose one party over another. A state should only stand to protect freedom, equality, and justice for all not for some like Islamic system teaches but ALL.
This means men and women are equal and not 50% under a secular state, if a religious person prefers to use religious courts then it's their right but religious courts are only for religious people, it shouldn't be made the courts of the land, the courts of the land must be blind to it's citizens.
The only Verse for Punishing consenting Sinners in the Quran Is regarding People who Fornicate in the public view. This is because it is public indecency. 24:3-24:4 " and lash the zani and the zaniya, 100times each...but those who accuse chaste women and fail to produce four eye witnesses( of the intercourse)shall be themselves lashed 80times."
The reason why the state is allowed to intervene in this sin, is because it is not zina behind closed doors, rather it is public indecency. The same law of 100lashes applies to public display of Sexuality, for both Homosexuals and Heterosexual. Keep it behind closed doors. This is a matter of public indecency.
I dare islamist to refute these assertions
@Crow @Abdalla @Karim @Cognitivedissonance
Invader
👾pʅɹoʍ pǝʇɐʅǝxᴉd ɐ uᴉ ƃuᴉʌᴉʅ👾
Who says I am forcing this life onto others.
I'm not seen on the streets defaming atheists.
They can believe in whatever they want. Worshipping Charles Darwin for all I care.
This is because that is their belief and I can't force people to believe in what I want them to.
However what you're saying is hypocritical if you are making fun of Islam. If you left Islam that's fine but if you force people to believe in you that's an entire discussion.
I've seen all the other religions and saw that none of the sat right.
Jews being the only chosen people.
Jesus being worshipped
Having to worship different gods for different things when there can be an All-Powerful one.
Islam was the religion for me not necessarily for you.
But it's for them.
Many more are converting too.
Villainess
smooth talk on a rainy summer evening
It’s dr Osman, no point in arguing with him about islam lolzzzz
Invader
👾pʅɹoʍ pǝʇɐʅǝxᴉd ɐ uᴉ ƃuᴉʌᴉʅ👾
He clearly has lost the plot.
There is one fundamental problem u still haven't come to grips with, disbelievers do not fall under the quran, everything in there is for believers, u can lash their ass all u want but there is no point lashing a disbeliever, he doesn't even believe in anything u hold to be true. So there has to be some sort of intermediate system that is neutral between u and the disbeliever and the only one that we know of that works is a govt based on human rights.
U r still coming into the public and enforcing laws of god which I still think is a breach even if u target believers because u still haven't come to grips to determine what is a crime or sin. A crime is against people, a sin is against god. How is fornicating between two consentual adults a crime against the people? they exercised their free choice and they are not forcing others to do it, they can ask u to join them if they so wish but u can also reject by exercising your free will.
Last edited:
@AutumnBreeze I am not sure how u rationalize applying the laws of god on others doesn't make you god which discredits your religion as being man made since it relies on men to enforce it. The other matter u need to contend with is free will, u can't dodge this or get around it and apply shariah law and still say ppl r free, no they are not free whatsoever. So u need to contend with that matter also how u infringed on the freedom of others by using shariah law.
They have the Freedom to Commit Zina behind closed doors. The crime is that they committed it in public, thus it is a public indecency. Even in the west you cant be naked in public let alone Have intercourse in public!
Nudist can congregate in public and do so many times to express their nudity.
The concern of crime isn't public or private issue, what if a nudist says he finds muslim women hijabs to be offensive and starts regulating laws that you can only wear a hijab in private in your own home. You are essentially stripping his right to do as he pleases yet if he attempts to strip your rights of wearing a hijab, u will cry. Listen kiddo, the world has seen imposing your views gets u nowhere untill one day u lose your rights also like a circular shit fest. The best idea is not to start the ball rolling because once it rolls it will come back to you one day where u start to lose rights.
If Allah can co-exist with the biggest devil of them all Iblis, I am not sure why u find it hard to co-exist with people who do differently to u. It baffles me wallahi, they teach u that god and satan co-exist in the universe, yet muslims do not want to co-exist with disbelievers, it's an illogical statement. I don't see allah getting involved in iblis freedom, why the hell do u get involved in a disbeliever freedom is beyond any rational answer. There is no rational answer other then u want to impose and even that is against your religion as u say.
The day you record yourself nude at your work infront of co-workers and your not fired and sent to jail for sexual harrassment in secular australia, is the day Somalia will enforce those same policies. But first achieve those "rights" in australia...Nudist can congregate in public and do so many times to express their nudity.
The concern of crime isn't public or private issue, what if a nudist says he finds muslim women hijabs to be offensive and starts regulating laws that you can only wear a hijab in private in your own home. You are essentially stripping his right to do as he pleases yet if he attempts to strip your rights of wearing a hijab, u will cry. Listen kiddo, the world has seen imposing your views gets u nowhere untill one day u lose your rights also like a circular shit fest. The best idea is not to start the ball rolling because once it rolls it will come back to you one day where u start to lose rights.
If Allah can co-exist with the biggest devil of them all Iblis, I am not sure why u find it hard to co-exist with people who do differently to u. It baffles me wallahi, they teach u that god and satan co-exist in the universe, yet muslims do not want to co-exist with disbelievers, it's an illogical statement.
@AutumnBreeze how is it modern islam tells u to eliminate disbelievers in society yet Allah tolerates the father of disbelievers iblis to enjoy freedom? u dodged that conveniently didn't u. There is a clear problem here.
Islam says "for you is your religion, and for me is my religion"-109:6. If you mean muslim countries and their policies against disbelievers and personal Sinners, I agree with you in that they have no leg to stand on Logically, nor islamically...
What about this one. Didn't allah say that he allowed satan and his followers to exist till the day of judgement? so what are u muslims doing trying to stop disbelievers in society, allah promised them to exist and survive. See the lunancy in modern day islam?
@DR OSMAN is atheist @AutumnBreeze whats the point of gion back and forth when his atheist you are a fool
War dooda gal oo ka jawaab qodobada ama diinta ka bax, wax kale hala soo cararin. Stop being a naf-la-cari oo ka cararayo sucasha adag la dhul saray diinta Waxani diinta alle aad ku sheegaysid waxa qortay rag kama iman illahi, illahi bay ku sheegan si dadka loo waalo, lakin waa hadalki rag oo qol yar isku soo xiray oo qortay oo waxay lahayeen agenda siyasadeed sida ku cad quranka inay awooda arabta la wareegan oo midayan si ay aduunka inteeda kale ku duulan waana dhacday. Fa'ido kale ay lahayd ma jirto
Wa aniga oo faraski awoowahay ayaan gadaal ka qoraya this time dagaalku waa xoriyada puntland oo ay uu afduuban tahay rag yar oo islam isku sheego, anigu diin ma wati, lakin kuwa wata oo qasab raba inay dadka sanka ka geliyan baan la dagaala si loo ilaliyo xoriyada insaanka
Last edited:
Take ur medicationWar dooda gal oo ka jawaab qodobada ama diinta ka bax, wax kale hala soo cararin. Stop being a naf-la-cari oo ka cararayo sucasha adag la dhul saray diinta Waxani diinta alle aad ku sheegaysid waxa qortay rag kama iman illahi, illahi bay ku sheegan si dadka loo waalo, lakin waa hadalki rag oo qol yar isku soo xiray oo qortay oo waxay lahayeen agenda siyasadeed sida ku cad quranka inay awooda arabta la wareegan oo midayan si ay aduunka inteeda kale ku duulan waana dhacday. Fa'ido kale ay lahayd ma jirto
Wa aniga oo faraski awoowahay ayaan gadaal ka qoraya this time dagaalku waa xoriyada puntland oo ay uu afduuban tahay rag yar oo islam isku sheego, anigu diin ma wati, lakin kuwa wata oo qasab raba inay dadka sanka ka geliyan baan la dagaala si loo ilaliyo xoriyada insaanka
Edited to include some things i missed
akabir- this literally means large. this is where you'll find Shirk, which is the highest of the akabir. you'll also find here blackmagic, kufr, nifaaq, lying about God's nature, etc
fawahish- this means Hideous. still very high a sin. heres where you'll find:taking lust to males, taking lust to any women your father married regardless if she's no longer your stepmom. taking lust to your mahram Family:mom/grandma, daughter/granddaughter, sister, aunts/grandaunt, paternal or maternal, neice/grandneice, your wetnurse, a girl who wetnursed with you, your mother-inlaw, your daughter in-law, marrying two sisters. also in this ranking albeit less severe then the aforementioned is zina otherwise known as premarital sexual relations. zina is any sexual interaction of the farj(genitals) and anyone that is not your spouse or concubine.
'udwan-this means transgression of boundaries. you'll find here all of the public sins. the highest in this category is Forcing another to commit a sin or forcing another to adhere to your beliefs. also present here are Taking of a life(human or animal), injury, theft, destruction of property, defamation, public disturbance, here you'll also find discussing your sins and the sins of others (this does not include, someone filing a complaint with the authorities against a public sin/crime). this is the rank where the state and public are involved and can intervene appropriately
rijs: This means filth. it deals with najaasat : pork, alcohol, and cultures that are remnants of Shirk and ignorance, such as idols. this is also where dahaarah is required. this is why it is understood that Being filthy and living in filth is haram. because all filth causes health issues and are thus a Haram or a sin. uncleanliness to the point of health risk is Haram.
lamam: this means minor sins or things that can lead to the above sins. as the quran says in 53:32 ". Such those that steer clear of the Akabirs of Sin and the Fahawish except for the lamams, verily god is magnanimous in forgiveness". lamam are frequent and unavoidable. this includes brief ill-mindsets, wrongful assumptions and many others
Inshallah i'll add more sins mentioned in the quran. They wont top these, as these are the greatest sins. But there's at least 100 hundred sins mentioned verbatim in the quran.
akabir- this literally means large. this is where you'll find Shirk, which is the highest of the akabir. you'll also find here blackmagic, kufr, nifaaq, lying about God's nature, etc
fawahish- this means Hideous. still very high a sin. heres where you'll find:taking lust to males, taking lust to any women your father married regardless if she's no longer your stepmom. taking lust to your mahram Family:mom/grandma, daughter/granddaughter, sister, aunts/grandaunt, paternal or maternal, neice/grandneice, your wetnurse, a girl who wetnursed with you, your mother-inlaw, your daughter in-law, marrying two sisters. also in this ranking albeit less severe then the aforementioned is zina otherwise known as premarital sexual relations. zina is any sexual interaction of the farj(genitals) and anyone that is not your spouse or concubine.
'udwan-this means transgression of boundaries. you'll find here all of the public sins. the highest in this category is Forcing another to commit a sin or forcing another to adhere to your beliefs. also present here are Taking of a life(human or animal), injury, theft, destruction of property, defamation, public disturbance, here you'll also find discussing your sins and the sins of others (this does not include, someone filing a complaint with the authorities against a public sin/crime). this is the rank where the state and public are involved and can intervene appropriately
rijs: This means filth. it deals with najaasat : pork, alcohol, and cultures that are remnants of Shirk and ignorance, such as idols. this is also where dahaarah is required. this is why it is understood that Being filthy and living in filth is haram. because all filth causes health issues and are thus a Haram or a sin. uncleanliness to the point of health risk is Haram.
lamam: this means minor sins or things that can lead to the above sins. as the quran says in 53:32 ". Such those that steer clear of the Akabirs of Sin and the Fahawish except for the lamams, verily god is magnanimous in forgiveness". lamam are frequent and unavoidable. this includes brief ill-mindsets, wrongful assumptions and many others
Inshallah i'll add more sins mentioned in the quran. They wont top these, as these are the greatest sins. But there's at least 100 hundred sins mentioned verbatim in the quran.
Riba/interest-2:275:Rank:Udwaan, jurisdiction, private Sin. Becomes Public, if forced upon others. You have the right to use the state to force someone to repay a debt, but you cant force them to pay interest.
