Arabs and West Africans but not by much and you also have minorities who descend from andalusi refugees (morisco) and ottoman soldiers.
Natufian Ancestry Map
- Thread starter Scipio Africanus
- Start date
Step a side
VIP
The place was really a cocktail mashallah. E-M81 became the dominant lineage.
According to the latest research, most expelled Moriscos actually returned to Spain gradually over the years after the expulsion. They found North Africa to be extremely inhospitable, less developed and culturally alien, not to mention there was racism coming their way.
Let’s not forget the Moriscos have been Christian for some time as well which gave them even more of an incentive to return to their homeland.
Last edited:
A few individuals managed to come back, but certainly not the majority (See for example the story of the Hornacheros who even after begging many times for their return and offering a moroccan city got repeatedly rejected by the spanish crown). Moreover, they faced significant segregation, as you mentioned, with North Africans suspecting them of being insincere Muslims.
Presently, it is relatively simple to identify these individuals, as many still bear European appearances and retain names such as Bargach (derived from Vargas) or Ronda, named after the Spanish city. However, it is essential to note that these individuals now identify as Maghrebi, not Spanish.
Here some known morisco descendents :
The alchemist
VIP
I think for the most part the qpAdm equates the later Levantine values to statistical artifacts in our DNA. It is very old.
I don't believe we have Bronze Age DNA unless it is in a negligible form through minor Arabian, not a sub-component or anything like that. That is if Somalis do have Arabian at all.
I have a big suspicion about what the thing is. The age is so deep with the southwest Asian migrated DNA that it bleeds into qualities in later-time leaps, without it being admixture but reflecting something deeply ancestral -- covering more ground of way later structured DNA. It's not the same thing. The boundaries get a bit blurry when you measure things of that age. So crudely, modeling older somewhat drifted signatures in discrete form means forcing the model to conform to later genetic standards, consuming later Levantine DNA profiles that are in fact nothing but far downstream.
This does not mean that there is no correlation, just different interpretation, which has vastly different implications.
We're dealing with similar composites of the Natufians. I don't think G25 overinflates IBM -- it needs some ANA-related DNA. It got to get it somewhere. And we share the Eurasian between Natufian and Iberomarusians. That's why the Taforalt genome is convenient, even more so Naufian which is a mix of sibling lineages of ours. I've even said that Natufian might be a re-out of Africa from northeast Africa. Like how much of Natufian is from Africa? We know IBM part ~30% is no doubt introduced from there. I suspect a lot more of Natufian is from northeast Africa. IBM did not come cleanly into the Levant, I think it carried with it considerable of that southwest Asian+northeast African ancestry. Natufians did not pop up until 15kya -- that type of DNA is older in Africa.
In a weird way, Natufian is from northeast Africa, how Holocene (preAE) Egyptians are a Lower Nubian off-shoot.
That's why claiming a defined package is a big problem. I am more comfortable in deconstructing the components.
Dzudzuana-like DNA (the deep shit that came from southwest Asia (and likely stretched its origin in Northeast Africa as well) gives off minor food-producing residue when it is deep paleolithic), some northeast African ANA, and maybe or maybe not some minor IBM. But the first two would read as IBM to some degree with high deep southwest Asian -- thus Natufian is conveniently packaged that contains what we need as we are half that only (if we were not half AEA, you would see how the differences would show, as I doubt our non-AEA is exactly proportional to Natufian, but can't be too different). All in all, we lack the resolution complete resolution. Even still, we're familiar with things broadly.
I wrote this with quickness, so ignore the funny structure of the text. There is a method to the madness, kk. Ask q if anything reads as convoluted.
The alchemist
VIP
Wasn't the R much older than the Late Neolithic ancestry introduction? I could have remembered it was 8kya or something, synonymous with an Eastern introduction. Maybe I conflate it with the T in Toubou. But then again, both those haplogroups might be related in that respect. I'm pretty sure I remember right on this one. I also think it came through the Levant by early food producers.
Reformed J
VIP
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
Step a side
VIP
Impossible. EEF never spoke Afro Asiatic. We would have seen heavy substratum among the current day Mediterranean people like Latin, Greeks etc
The alchemist
VIP
Nah, I think the HG R and T assimilated into Afro-Asiatic speaking groups upon migration.
I find the Europeans in North Africa a strange thing. Why were they walking in our lands for?
The alchemist
VIP
We would have seen something. EEF language is a mystery.
Step a side
VIP
One thing is for sure, EEF were not fighters. Both Indo European men and Afro Asiatic men killed their men off.
Reformed J
VIP
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
Step a side
VIP
Hoe do you explain the Afro asiatic men that wiped them out in North Africa?
The alchemist
VIP
Those Yamnaya niggas were barbarians. They must have slaughtered them very quickly and thoroughly by the way the Y-DNA disappeared and mtDNA stayed behind upon contact. Even more brutal if EEF women ran toward the horse-riding men with open arms, willing to risk everything. They came with the equivalent of a Bugatti.
It's so strange. They came to places, massacred the men, and started to settle down with their pastoralist lifestyle with the EEF females. Peculiar people.
There are 4 good reasons;
- Great land for herding
- Hotter women
- EEF had very weak men (inferior sedentary physique)
- Expansionary warrior culture (out for glory & riches)
What if the EEF men were used as slaves but not allowed to procreate? Yo, whatever happened to those miskeens, they had it brutal.
The alchemist
VIP
That's interesting. But it does not explain why the mtDNA was still present in high frequency.
Yersinia Pestis is the Black Death, right? I remember a study that showed the one that went into Europe in the Middle-Ages spread from Kyrgyzstan. They found the ancestral strain in a cemetery in that region. We used to think it came from the docs through rats or something and later I thought the Chinese had spread it.
Wasn't it so that people who suffered from that disease in ancient times got black teeth or gums?
Reformed J
VIP
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
The alchemist
VIP
It's a time-varying differential geneflow I guess for most of such cases. Strong internal social and cultural pressures with external fixed interaction. There are also other processes of founder effects and bottlenecks that reduce the diversity but the autosomal structuring stays.
Could be that Jomon ancients kept symbolic aristocratic stratified control and had high reproductive status -- holders of tradition -- something strongly hierarchal that skewed the distribution frequency. With other factors that help change the Y-DNA outlook.
Reformed J
VIP
That's interesting. But it does not explain why the mtDNA was still present in high frequency.
Yersinia Pestis is the Black Death, right? I remember a study that showed the one that went into Europe in the Middle-Ages spread from Kyrgyzstan. They found the ancestral strain in a cemetery in that region. We used to think it came from the docs through rats or something and later I thought the Chinese had spread it.
Wasn't it so that people who suffered from that disease in ancient times got black teeth or gums?
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
Reformed J
VIP
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
The alchemist
VIP
That's a valid point. Might be part of the equation. You never know, lol.
