Most Arabs in Zeila were prisoners

[Idilinaa]

Berbera was a city in constant anarchy, it was the busiest port in the horn so the tribes inhabiting it (HA) would destroy the forts of one another often. Even in one of the sources you quoted, it mentions Sharmarke erected his forts on 3 different occasions because they kept getting destroyed (by locals)

It obviously was a well guarded and fortified port before that dispute over trade access from what you shared from that 1801 letter

They ended up resolving it by creating Bulxaar as a sister port.

 

[giire12]

Where did they get this information from?



Some of the claims he makes seem to check out:


I'm not fully sure about the claim that Majerteen clans ruled Berbera that might be an exaggeration but there definitely seems to have been a dispute that caused destruction, after which Berbera was eventually deserted.


But if there were supposedly 5–6 towers before, where exactly were they?
Because by the time Haji Sharmarke arrived, the city was deserted, and he only erected 3 new forts. So what happened to the previous ones?

Is this history during the Majerteen sultanant. I have a Majerteen who always reminds me that during the 1850s to 1860s, the Majerteen Sultanate expanded its influence along the northern Somali coast, which included trading cities like Berbera, Bulhar, and Zeila.

His argument was that the Habar Awal were people who are orginally from Harta Sheekh and Dagax Buur area of Somali Ethiopia, a known isaaq city in K5 Ethiopian region. Than the British gave the land to Habar Awal and forced Majerteen to retreat back to Bosaso. To me this is slightly a far fetched fairy tale story .

 

[Idilinaa]

Is this history during the Majerteen sultanant. I have a Majerteen who always reminds me that during the 1850s to 1860s, the Majerteen Sultanate expanded its influence along the northern Somali coast, which included trading cities like Berbera, Bulhar, and Zeila.

His argument was that the Habar Awal were people who are orginally from Harta Sheekh and Dagax Buur area of Somali Ethiopia, a known isaaq city in K5 Ethiopian region. Than the British gave the land to Habar Awal and forced Majerteen to retreat back to Bosaso. To me this is slightly a far fetched fairy tale story .

If there was an empire that ruled East and North West of Somalia, than where is the historical record of this powerful sultanant dominanting and leaving a foot print in those locations. Berbera is 2 hours from Hargeisa, 4.5 hours from jigjiga and 4 hours to Awdal. Over the sea is yeman, so it should be well documented the presence of this great force that rules the east and the west?

It's not Majerteen sultanate expanding. It's just trade activity and merchants travelling to settle in places for business. Lots of Habar Awal/Isaaq traveled and went to different parts of the Somali coast to even trade.

But yeah framing it as them ruling Berbera is big time exaggeration. What it most likely was in reality a competition for trade and commercial access by various clans and people that's probably what happened.

 

[Saleh]

It's not Majerteen sultanate expanding. It's just trade activity and merchants travelling to settle in places for business. Lots of Habar Awal/Isaaq traveled and went to different parts of the Somali coast to even trade.

But yeah framing it as them ruling Berbera is big time exaggeration. What it most likely was in reality a competition for trade and commercial access by various clans and people that's probably what happened.

They were invited to berbera by reer yunis nux ismacil as mercenaries in a war with reer axmed. They briefly occupied berbera and expelled reer axmed so reer axmed called upon sharmarke for assistance and together they expelled both reer yunis and MJ. That is the real story

 

[Idilinaa]

They were invited to berbera by reer yunis nux ismacil as mercenaries in a war with reer axmed. They briefly occupied berbera and expelled reer axmed so reer axmed called upon sharmarke for assistance and together they expelled both reer yunis and MJ. That is the real storyView attachment 367088

Now that makes a whole lot of sense. Thanks.

 

[giire12]

It's not Majerteen sultanate expanding. It's just trade activity and merchants travelling to settle in places for business. Lots of Habar Awal/Isaaq traveled and went to different parts of the Somali coast to even trade.

But yeah framing it as them ruling Berbera is big time exaggeration. What it most likely was in reality a competition for trade and commercial access by various clans and people that's probably what happened.

That makes more sense, I read somewhere, there was a historical accounts and British records that suggest Majerteen commercial or military presence in Berbera around the 1840s to 1860s.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Again, this is why historical context matters.

Berbera was briefly occupied by Majerteen clans and was later wrested from them during a dispute by Habar Awal in the process, many of the stone houses they had built were destroyed.
View attachment 367066

As a result, Berbera became deserted for a period, essentially turning into disputed territory. Later, Haji Sharmarke seized control and began revitalizing the town by building three new forts.
View attachment 367067

Those three towers he erected marked the beginning of Berbera's reconstruction and revival.
View attachment 367068




It was mostly carishes, yes but Luuq also had stone merchant houses, royal residences, and was a stone walled trading city with organized markets, mosques, schools, and even elements of urban planning.

View attachment 367075
View attachment 367076

According to a newspaper report from 1895, Luuq had a functioning sultanate with its own administration.
View attachment 367080

The Sultan taxed caravans and trade passing through the area. Under him served a Grand Qadi or Na’ib, and he relied on a diplomatic secretary to manage external trade relations.

Luuq also had its own weaving industry, producing textiles, and a goldsmith/silversmith trade, crafting ornaments and jewelry.

"Rough linen is woven and goldsmiths make handsome ornaments, using various metals also, especially silver"

They used silver coins, as well as international currencies.

''The trade of Lugh is well regulated, and has, as it were all the forms of commerce in civilized countries.

As in Harar or Zayla and other coastal towns, Bedouins/pastoralists came and went, helping maintain the town’s vibrant trade.

Buur Hakaba, by contrast, was a rural agricultural settlement. They lived in mundhuls a different setup entirely.



He makes clear distinctions between settled Somaal and Bedouin Somals throughout the whole book.

Basically, he’s reiterating the same Reer Magaal vs. Reer Guuraa/Reer Miyi distinction that northern Somalis themselves used even I.M. Lewis points this out in his publications.
View attachment 367073

The same observation was made by Revoil on the Majerteen coast in the mid-19th century.
View attachment 367074


This ideological contrast between pastoralists and townspeople is also a recurring theme in Somali poetry and literature.
View attachment 367070
View attachment 367071

So when Burton notes how Somalis differentiate themselves based on lifestyle, he’s not implying the townspeople in Zeyla weren’t Somali. I’ve seen others , not you necessarily, twist his words that way, so I just want to clarify that point.


You also see these distinctions made in Futuh al-Habasha, which people often misinterpret as some kind of ethnic differentiation when in reality, both the townspeople and the pastoralists come from the same communities. The lines weren’t rigid politically or economically.


It’s similar to how rural and urban populations are viewed in the West like how rural Americans get labeled “rednecks,” or how rural Europeans are seen as “country bumpkins” by urban elites. It’s a social dynamic, not an ethnic one.




You are right.

Quoting Abbadie’s NOTEBOOK as a source and making a thread asserting such wild claims is mad. Peak dishonesty.

 

[Keep it a boqol]

Discussing Somali history with normsomaloids is literally trying ur very best to convince them that they're human and they reject it. Even worse in the UK cos we're collectively bums so they need reason to explain their bummedness without self-agency. So sad. I'm so done with trying to tell Somalis that we wuz kangz I just let them wallow in their self-pity and discuss esoteric shi with the realest Somali niggas on the planet.

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[Guure⁸]

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I think he just wanted a reason to hate on Arabs, it's mostly the Islamophobes who comes up with this bs

 

[Idilinaa]

Quoting Abbadie’s NOTEBOOK as a source and making a thread asserting such wild claims is mad. Peak dishonesty.

We already acknowledged that Abbadie’s work isn’t fully reliable, but it’s not wholly inaccurate either. It’s known that sections of the Majerteen were called in to support factions of the Isaaq during internal disputes over commercial access and that they briefly occupied Berbera alongside the Ayyal Yunis before they were driven away later.

My point wasn’t to exaggerate their role, but to highlight that Berbera was partly destroyed and then deserted as a result of those conflicts. Later, it was gradually repopulated and trade resumed. That historical context is what I was trying to bring forward not make "wild claims.

 

[Garaad Awal]

Is this history during the Majerteen sultanant. I have a Majerteen who always reminds me that during the 1850s to 1860s, the Majerteen Sultanate expanded its influence along the northern Somali coast, which included trading cities like Berbera, Bulhar, and Zeila.

His argument was that the Habar Awal were people who are orginally from Harta Sheekh and Dagax Buur area of Somali Ethiopia, a known isaaq city in K5 Ethiopian region. Than the British gave the land to Habar Awal and forced Majerteen to retreat back to Bosaso. To me this is slightly a far fetched fairy tale story .

Delusional niggas. Habar Awal were more relevant in history than those blackies.

 

[Idilinaa]

Delusional niggas. Habar Awal were more relevant in history than those blackies.

I’ve never seen a normal take from you , always just spiraling into qabil-fueled paranoia.

Majerteen were called in to support a faction of Isaaqs during a conflict. They briefly occupied Berbera alongside them and were already active merchants and sailors, so they were relevant in their own right.

And “blackies”? What, is Habar Awal suddenly a different species of Somali now?

 

[Ugas.Wacays]

Those rer Zayla people were never mentioned when Henry salt came to the city 1809 he only mentioned Somalis living there

In 1884 Gabriel Ferrand traveled to saylac and said 75% of the town was somalis
And he also talked about their huts. The rest of the town were traders, Soilders, government workers.

 

[Idilinaa]

Those rer Zayla people were never mentioned when Henry salt came to the city 1809 he only mentioned Somalis living there

In 1884 Gabriel Ferrand traveled to saylac and said 75% of the town was somalis
And he also talked about their huts. The rest of the town were traders, Soilders, government workers.
View attachment 367266

Reer Awdal/Zayla was more of an umbrella term for various urban clans, but this supports that the majority were from Issa clans.

The "thatched houses" mentioned are called carishes but Ferrand also notes they built houses with walls and cellings using planks probably referring to the old stone houses we see in historic photos of Zayla next to the carishes. They apparently called them magdara, they had doors and even led to interior rooms like bridal chambers, its also where they received guests in accommodation.

He also shares interesting details about Somali wedding customs in Zayla:

''During the ceremony naked sabers(swords) are brandished above his head , shouting ''Arous , Arous, (Married, Married) immediately after, our man, dressed in his finest clothes presides over the meal in which everyone takes part and during which qat and gechr are distribute in abundance) or qachra

''These agapes completed, the arous(wedding) is led to the mosque for the religious ceremony.''

''The women do the same for the bride. At the threshold off the door of the magdara which leads to the bridal chamber , the Qadhi(Judge) slaughers a sheep whose blood he pours across the entrance and each one jumping over murmurs a few words of blessing for the new couple

 

[Neptune]

Wallahi Im not reading all that

Do you have a children's reading level or something? This is the history forum what do you expect?

 

[Idilinaa]

Do you have a children's reading level or something? This is the history forum what do you expect?

I don't blame him, it was a long post where i put several responses together.

Aside from the discussion about Berbera and Zayla. I did share some interesting details about the city of Luuq(Pronounced as Luugh in Afmaay)

It was mostly carishes, yes but Luuq also had stone merchant houses, royal residences, and was a stone walled trading city with organized markets, mosques, schools, and even elements of urban planning.

According to a newspaper report from 1895, Luuq had a functioning sultanate with its own administration.

The Sultan taxed caravans and trade passing through the area. Under him served a Grand Qadi or Na’ib, and he relied on a diplomatic secretary to manage external trade relations.

Luuq also had its own weaving industry, producing textiles, and a goldsmith/silversmith trade, crafting ornaments and jewelry.

"Rough linen is woven and goldsmiths make handsome ornaments, using various metals also, especially silver"

They used silver coins, as well as international currencies.

''The trade of Lugh is well regulated, and has, as it were all the forms of commerce in civilized countries.

As in Harar or Zayla and other coastal towns, Bedouins/pastoralists came and went, helping maintain the town’s vibrant trade."the poor Bedouins are excepted. They come from the interior and help to maintain the trade of Lugh."

Buur Hakaba, by contrast, was a rural agricultural settlement. They lived in mundhuls a different setup entirely.

 

[Ugas.Wacays]

Reer Awdal/Zayla was more of an umbrella term for various urban clans, but this supports that the majority were from Issa clans.

The "thatched houses" mentioned are called carishes but Ferrand also notes they built houses with walls and cellings using planks probably referring to the old stone houses we see in historic photos of Zayla next to the carishes. They apparently called them magdara, they had doors and even led to interior rooms like bridal chambers, its also where they received guests in accommodation.

View attachment 367268

He also shares interesting details about Somali wedding customs in Zayla:

''During the ceremony naked sabers(swords) are brandished above his head , shouting ''Arous , Arous, (Married, Married) immediately after, our man, dressed in his finest clothes presides over the meal in which everyone takes part and during which qat and gechr are distribute in abundance) or qachra

''These agapes completed, the arous(wedding) is led to the mosque for the religious ceremony.''

''The women do the same for the bride. At the threshold off the door of the magdara which leads to the bridal chamber , the Qadhi(Judge) slaughers a sheep whose blood he pours across the entrance and each one jumping over murmurs a few words of blessing for the new couple
View attachment 367272
View attachment 367270

Rer zayla being mixed people makes more sense because of the population of the town
1. Somali
2. arab traders
3 .Sudanese soilders

 

[Idilinaa]

Rer zayla being mixed people makes more sense because of the population of the town
1. Somali
2. arab traders
3 .Sudanese soilders

Yeah this supports what i said before about the demographic shift which included others. They weren't Reer Awdal. Most of these people were newcomers who came largely with Egyptians Khedive and the British.

 

[Shimbiris]

Discussing Somali history with normsomaloids is literally trying ur very best to convince them that they're human and they reject it. Even worse in the UK cos we're collectively bums so they need reason to explain their bummedness without self-agency. So sad. I'm so done with trying to tell Somalis that we wuz kangz I just let them wallow in their self-pity and discuss esoteric shi with the realest Somali niggas on the planet.

Picked up on this almost 15 years ago. I can't really relate to them. I was born into a wealthy and educated family and grew up in the Khaleej where most Somalis are middle-class to well-off and the ones who aren't are just folks hustling their way through life as drivers or housekeepers to the local Somalis. Intellectual-ish parents who were not qabiilist in the least as well.

I sympathize, though. I had cousins in their situations and/or family friends. When you grow up in a house of 8 kids, you've been lower-income your entire upbringing, grew up as a minority in a country where even some of the other minorities might bully you because of your ethnicity and religion (UK) and your parents are maybe village bumpkins listening day and night to some disingenuous sheikh while a lot of other kids in your situation turn to crime... it's a little inevitable to self-hate and have low self-worth.

Just learned to ignore them, to be honest.

 

[Barkhadle1520]

Do you have a children's reading level or something? This is the history forum what do you expect?

I was munching on that premium Djibouti Khat