Mathamatics In Somalia

[DR OSMAN]

Somalis must have used mathamatics or else why do we have the number 0 as eber? this isn't used for counting because eber isn't a number. The natural world around us has no place for zero because there is always a number for something no matter how small or large. For example 1 bannana can be broken up into small pieces and that can be numbered into a format. What is somali numbering system for items that are smaller then 1 yet into pieces? the other thing to take note of is the number eber? you don't need the number 0 in counting becuz everything in the natural world has a number and there is no place for 'zero'. It's used for calculations only for example 2 bannanas - 2 bananas =0. That is human concept the number 0 because it isn't in the natural world at all and is used by humans to calculate.

What were Somalis calculating? It seems like these numbers pre-date arab arrival also. For example when they read arabic alphabet in quranic schools they say numbering also like alif wax maleh their using their old knowledge to understand this new script. So how deep was mathamatics in Somali society?

 

[DR OSMAN]

From my understanding of Somali language, they didn't need an alphabet because they viewed the world in numbers, they even view reading arabic script in mathamatical constructs like wax maleh that is a concept of 'zero'. How did they measure for example camel milk which would have to broken down into sizeable amounts? Since they had the concept of 0 which means 'empty' and the numbering system, they should of evolved it further to creating numbering systems on liquids, air, temperature, etc. Since u know the numbering format, how far did they apply this to the surrounding world?

 

[DR OSMAN]

Seems like they reached a thousand in the numbering format 'kun' lakin new concepts entered like 'malayin' looooooooooool so their maths was at primitive level, but they could've used that numbering system they had to measure alot of their surroundings quite easily. The largest number is saqal bol kun they dont reach higher. I think they knew fractions also to break up one number into smaller sections. Because u see it in the language, if an aboriginal was to ask for a meat, he would say 1 or many he has no other concept in between. But somalis ask for jar, bar, etc. Mathamatical concepts.

We need people to delve into Somali linguists and sciences. The guy wud be rich if he was an expert who can answer our questions about these matters. Before we begin educating Somalis, we need to know what they already know and is familiar to them through-out their culture and history and what has been handed down.

Aborigines are simple and they will tell you 'we been minding our own business for 30,000 years' warkooda wa cad yahay. If you meet them in market place, he will say hal ii si ama hadad uu kala qaybisid waa 'wax badan' yahay thats the extent of the numeracy. Carurtisa marku tiriyo hal weeye ama wa badan yihin. Forget fractions iyo kala qaybin, he will just 'wa badan yahay'.

At least with a somali hadad geed hos gaysid i yo mirahisa, waa tirin kara, wa kala qaybin kara, wa si jebin kara into fractions. Kuma oranayo waa badan yahay, he puts a figure to it. But we missed out when the malayin numbering came into place which possibly modern era. We don't seem to have used to it to apply to natural world like somali weathering system ma arkaysid. They define it as a 'seasons' sida jilal similar to aborigines who know two seasons wet and dry. Its up to us to find out what caused this gap in knowledge not someone else. We need to define when they teachings came into place and what were somalis doing. Were we isolated like aborigines? and for how long? not 30,000 years i hope cause we wont be counting if we were.

 

[DR OSMAN]

If you ask a somali the weather he will just say 'wa kulul yahay ama wa gabow yahay' he wont give u a figure sida aborigineka markad waydiso number ii tiri wuxu ku oranaya waa hal iyo wa badan yahay, similar level ignorance. We lost a-lot of years and we need to pinpoint these losses and the causes and how to rectify it. I want pure critical analysis to explain these deficiencies. For example if u ask a Somali war ii sheeg intee la'egtay buurtasi, wuxu ku oranaya 'waa wayn yahay' same as the aborigine he will say waa wayn yahay, hence ignorance has set in and we were cut from the world.

 

[Qabille]

We need new podcasts dictoore

 

[DR OSMAN]

We need new podcasts dictoore

Our education system prior to 1960 was far better. Our ancient system seems to leave a mark on our culture where everyone is aware of this up until today. I mean my own grandmother who couldn't read or write knew basic maths. Did she know measurements about mountains, weather, or distance, no. She understood it using 'day and night' system, she saw the world in the ancient way. That's what I call pure education when even the most illiterate has knowledge left over from whatever civilisation existed in the past in Somalia.

That's why I say it's critical we do the same with any knowledge we attempt to teach our children, it needs to be familiar to them and in their own language. That's why the english translated arabic text, latin, and greek. Why? they can't teach them in a foreign language they need to teach them in their own language. Where-as our universities are such shit and producing nothing in terms of research because it's not in our local language nor is it apart of our culture and it's foreign to us.

Just like the quran says about the prophet being questioned about bringing a book in a foreign tongue, if he did, their would be no muslims in arabia because they won't understand. We need to dedicate our resources in creating 'translations' on world knowledge and updating our 'vocubularies' which are still quite ancient because once it is in our vocubulary, even someone who is illerate like my grandmother will understand because she will encounter it in her day to day interactions with society and cannot escape it. Where-as the current knowledge in Somalia, it's not apart of the culture, they don't interact with it daily, they learn it and eventually will forget it and never be passed down to the next generation.

The only reason why my grandmother knew this stuff was because it was added into our culture and way of life and how we interact.Most of the knowledge you see today in Somalia it is never apart of our culture or interaction. Ask someone what the weather is, he has no clue because they haven't been taught to understand it.

 

[government]

This is actually something I've never thought about but you are right there must have been some sort of mathematical understanding in Somalia if ibir was created as it does raise the question

 

[DR OSMAN]

This is actually something I've never thought about but you are right there must have been some sort of mathematical understanding in Somalia if ibir was created as it does raise the question

Yes u don't need 'eber' in the real world because look around you, there is no physical thing that is 'eber' at all, their is always something around you that is physical, thhis idea is one of the human concepts that changed the world and introduced calculation because they used it to calculate. They must of been calculating at basic level like trade, like here is 2 goats and trade for 5 camels, and they would apply the zero somewhere in calculation. In this case 2-5=3 so it's above zero and there in positive state. But if they lost everything in trade or wealth they would then apply the 'eber principle'. This is clearly needed for trade.

But this is pure knowledge because they don't even know their doing it themselves, because it's seeped into the culture. That's REAL knowledge. Not these students I see nowadays. Knowledge is when you realize something and it becomes natural to you that you don't consider it to knowledge. Just like basic maths is natural to Somalia, they don't even realize their doing it. That's why I say whatever ruled somalia before was far better at educating.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Saq Dhexe? midnight, what other time system did they understand? 'aroor' means morning. Habeen means night. Dhuhr iyo Asr are clearly foreign to us in our timing scale. Why would they need to know about 'saq dhexe' what were they doing at 'midnight'? this seems to be some ancient time scale. Somali language isn't my strongest point, we need linguists who know the language well. I can look at then based on how much science they knew and what 'phase' of science it was such ancient, middle, late, etc.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The understanding of 'shapes' seems to be limited in Somalia, they didn't seem to be interested in geometry. I've never heard them speak of shapes. For example i've never heard the Somali word for 'circle' or even 'square' or 'triangle' lol. Geometry is critical in engineering and many fields. They understood 'points' though and 'dibic' lol but lines no it seems to be a loan-word from arabic word 'xariiqa'

So they wouldn't be able to form lines and points which is the basis of geometry. They only understood points and arabs then made them understand 'lines' and they never figured out how to combine their previous knowledge of points and lines together and why you probably see no great architecture.

If they would've understood shapes plus they had existing knowledge of points and numbers in their language, this could've of led someone to begin measuring and creating these things for us to observe in wonder today.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Did Somalis understand height, width, weight, area, shape, volume? For example. They do know 'dheerer' in terms of height, they know the concept of 'balac' and width and also the concept of weight. They probably knew 'shapes' as 'qaab' but they don't seem to have identified the different 'shapes' in the world because there is no word for 'triangular, square, rectangle' which are basic shapes. Forget the more complex shapes that have developed from that.

Shape knowledge requires understanding 'points' and 'lines' and creating differing shapes. Without the basic knowledge of points and lines, it's impossible to master such field of geometry. Somalis knew an understanding of shapes, heights, width, weight, area, volume, etc. They had 'words' for these but they had no way to 'measure' it or any undestanding of how to apply their 'basic maths' of 'hal, labo, sadex,' to it because once you have the numbering system, you have a language to measure in and a good key example I can give you all is. You will never see a Somali tell you I am this tall '6 foot 2' lol they will just say 'he is tall or short', no specific measurements similar to what an aborigine would say like 1 or many, no speicific measurement in between like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Somalis do exactly the same thing as the aborigines with every other field of mathamatics, they do not apply any measurement. It's either his tall or short no measurement or difference in between. Their either 'fat or skinny' no measurement in between.

Hang on they have measurement where they go from 'tall, medium, short' that is a 3 point measure only or 'fat, medium, skinny'. For example 'wa dheer yahay, waa dhexdhexad yahay, ama waa gaaban yahay' or 'waa buran yahay, waa dhexdhexad yahay, ama waa caato'. What was needed to define the different levels of fat, skinny, medium by placing numbers. They couldn't do this because they probably lacked measurement tools. So it wasn't mathamatical society here but they were numerically literate and had something to start off with.

They needed to expand it further and create instruments to perform these measures. For example for weight they needed to something primitive like 'grab a big rock' as a scale balancer and measure numbers against it by the amount of force someone weight is based on the large rock. They had options to learn and expand upon mathamatics.

With fruits n Vegetables they could've developed an instrument such as rope tied to a tree, measured the rope with hal, labo, sadex, and observe the amount of force from the fruits n vegetables upon your scaling numbered somali rope, this wud show them how each weight wud be different. They could've used a rope for many times of measurements like height, width, and so many things to do proper mathamatics. They could've of used 'sticks' as a ruler to measure hal, labo, sadex, afar and begin measuring height and so many other things in their lives.

 

[DR OSMAN]

It seems like Somalis missed out on the age of 'measurements' and the tools created. Especially metals are the biggest tools used for weight measures as their solid and heavy and you can measure basically anything against it. For example 'darasayn' doesnt sound somali to me. They didn't reach the age of mathamatical refinements.

The age where you can place differing sizes into one object. For example A Somali wouldn't be able to create a bottle as it has different measurements, you need to understand mathamatical measurements in your language to refine such products. I mean if you can't tell how tall someone is in your langauge using number, you will not be able manipulate sizes in products either. Somalis didnt reach the age where u can manipulate an object to have multiple sizing yet be one product.

When u look at somali made products, their usually very basic shaping which shows not a mathamatical understanding of how to refine numbers into different aspects of your design. U need maths for that and understanding of it in your language plus you need written script because measuring requires it is written down.

There was most likely no deep knowledge culture in Somalia nor an enlightment period for a long time after the egyptians. There was no possible chance for a Somali Newton to develop. Even now it seems to hard for one to develop due to lack of knowledge in the language. U cant go from not writing to understand measurements.

 

[DR OSMAN]

I don't see this in Somalia even till today. Nothing has been created from their environment. They still sit there and perform no measurements till this day on their surrounding environment. It's all exported from the west who has to do everything for them. Hence the brain economy is the west that we rely on lol. The most expensive commodity in the world more then OIL.

 

[4head]

Interessing stuff!

 

[DR OSMAN]

Interessing stuff!

They won't even sit there with a basic product from their environment. Like say Fish. Grab one fish and take it to the 'lab'. Apply 'heat' and 'cold' and see what happens. Break it up into many pieces and turn it into 'liquid'. What stage of heat or cold does the fish reconvert to another material. Remember the key rule, everything in the world 'converts' to something else, so that fish won't disappear. Find out what will become of it. U can do this with anything around your environment and may even find beneficial things.

 

[4head]

We need more scientist among Somalis. We are not enough.

 

[VixR]

This poster has some interesting thoughts. You should post in general OP, you have a mukh.

The largest number in Somali is saqal bol kun, they dont reach higher.

What’s this # in English?

 

[DR OSMAN]

This poster has some interesting thoughts. You should post in general OP, you have a mukh.

I see a lack of 'critical analysis in this forum' it's consistently the same thing which is 'post something bad or ceeb' about another something or anything which reconfirm yur view. The mind is still not well developed among western somalis which could be result of where they live in the west also and who their surrounded by. Imagine I came to you constantly and said this 'banana' has this and that inside it and then everyday I will seek to collect information to confirm that. You already reached a decision on what the banana is maybe influenced by 'myth or superstittion or agenda' this isn't academic stuff sxb and it just proves you lack something your hiding possibly. There is no real critical analysis on this forum anymore, we are being dragged down by clans who are below par which is their cultural iq level. Yes some clans are smarter then others because in maths the golden rule is nothing is 'consistently' the same, it's all measurable in the end. The only question that is asked in math is how your going to measure it, technique, variable, formula, etc which u then apply to your 'said topic' in equal fashion till you find a measurement.

 

[VixR]

I see a lack of 'critical analysis in this forum' it's consistently the same thing which is 'post something bad or ceeb' about another something or anything which reconfirm yur view. The mind is still not well developed among western somali.
There is no real critical analysis on this forum anymore, we are being dragged down by clans who are below par which is their cultural iq level.

You had to ruin it with the typical Somali curse/plague. Western Somalis cannot be said to be held back by their clan, bc it’s barely a factor of importance in the West, except in spousal selection based on tribe for some. I’ll refrain from asking which clans you mean.

 

[DR OSMAN]

For example I was watching a video on how Puntland exam teacher who measures results of tests said she failed her own daughter. That is how you gotta educate, there is no point sending a 67 IQ into college, he will end up failing units or trying to buy his certificate and all sorts of nonsense. Like Somaliland clearly do they just buy it or pay for their exam results, certificates, etc. Noone is gonna hire that person into a real job, he will not learn key skills needed to grasp concepts needed in knowledge.

We can't mish-mash our education sector in Somalia, there is clearly 'differences' in students across the region and giving them the same material is wrong. What's the point if a puntland student can ace the exam of somaliland and hamar with his eyes closed? well he gains nothing because school is about 'adding' to your knowledge not 'getting excellent' grades. He needs to bumped up to higher education material so he is challenged at school.

Even Somali politicians show indications of 68 IQ, they can't sell ideas or policies without buying someone. Your policy or idea is going to be right if u need to buy someone to agree with u, this shows you lack some critical intellect to convince others because your mind isn't scientific to begin with.

Imagine I kept selling you my ideas on this forum and sending u paypal money saying 'keep giving me high ratings' does that make my ideas 'true' of course not, i've demonstrated I lack some key intellectual capacity or knowledge and need to resort to corruption. Corruption is mainly due to 'low intellect' people, a smart dude can convince u straight away he don't need to buy ya.