PHILOSOPHY Machiavelli
- Thread starter Helios
- Start date
yes sometimes the end justify the meansWhat do you think of Machiavelli and amoral politics?
Do good ends justify the means taken to achieve them?
His work on The prince is quite interesting however I agree amorality is a necessity for the state to flourish a political career forces one to make difficult decisions that benefit your people and hurt others
It doesn’t have to be like that so therefore it isn’t a necessity, it’s just that what we see a lot of the times is amorality.
Would you consider the rashidun caliphate a state ran on immorality because it flourished?
The rashidun caliphate was ran on law sent from god and thus flourished however in secular political systems it’s a necessity to make amoral decisions
Yes I guess so if it’s secular
The alchemist
VIP
The ideal state is the Islamic state under Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
To know how to run the ideal state, we should study the Islamic state under Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the first four Caliphs.
Obviously, the early Muslims weren't naïve hippies. They fought and they defended themselves but they weren't amoral either.
If what Machiavelli said contradicts Quran and Sunnah then we have to follow Quran and Sunnah. I have a copy of The Prince and there are bits that don't go against Quran and Sunnah. Not all of it is teaching immorality.
But the overall idea I think is that the ruler should just abandon morals and embrace an amoral philosophy, similar to Nietzsche.
Not only is that approach wrong but I don't even think it's effective. If you have no morals, people will find out and you'll get a reputation for it. People won't trust you and you won't have real friends. If you're the ruler, the people might not be loyal and you might overthrown and/or assassinated the moment you let your guard slip.
But not all of his ideas were necessarily wrong or immoral. For example, is it better to be loved or feared? I think he said both is ideal but if you can only get one, then fear is good. I don't think this is necessarily wrong. Potential criminals might not love the sharia but the punishments may scare them away from committing crimes like zina.
To know how to run the ideal state, we should study the Islamic state under Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the first four Caliphs.
Obviously, the early Muslims weren't naïve hippies. They fought and they defended themselves but they weren't amoral either.
If what Machiavelli said contradicts Quran and Sunnah then we have to follow Quran and Sunnah. I have a copy of The Prince and there are bits that don't go against Quran and Sunnah. Not all of it is teaching immorality.
But the overall idea I think is that the ruler should just abandon morals and embrace an amoral philosophy, similar to Nietzsche.
Not only is that approach wrong but I don't even think it's effective. If you have no morals, people will find out and you'll get a reputation for it. People won't trust you and you won't have real friends. If you're the ruler, the people might not be loyal and you might overthrown and/or assassinated the moment you let your guard slip.
But not all of his ideas were necessarily wrong or immoral. For example, is it better to be loved or feared? I think he said both is ideal but if you can only get one, then fear is good. I don't think this is necessarily wrong. Potential criminals might not love the sharia but the punishments may scare them away from committing crimes like zina.
The prince fucked me upThe Prince is the blueprint.
Adaawe
Xoog iyo Xiniyo #NGM enforcer
Greatest book written on how to attain ultimate power and keep it. It's for the wolves not the privileged.
It’s clear he looks at ruling in a amoral way he justifies manipulation and subjugation in order to keep his subjects in check it’s not for the faint heartedGreatest book written on how to attain ultimate power and keep it. It's for the wolves not the privileged.
Adaawe
Xoog iyo Xiniyo #NGM enforcer
Power isn't for the faint of heart. It is a balancing act of brutality and benevolence. Ultimate power has no morals. That's why it's reserved for Allah (SWT). Only HE is King.
