Maadow pastor says “black” people never built anything before colonization

[caanoshaah]

As for the church, during the reign of King Lalibela, Egyptian Copts fled perscution in Egypt to Ethiopia https://www.jstor.org/stable/23868228

King lalibela reigned in the 12th century but these obelisks (also carved from stone) date back to the 4th century which is way before Coptic Egyptians came to supposedly “teach” the Ethiopian

Like listen I get maybe you have a bias against Ethiopians but leaping up and down like a circus monkey to give all their accomplishments to these Arabs who will call u a n*gger abeed monkey is wild.

Even if you are right clearly the fact that the coptics were working UNDER the Ethiopian king Lalībela instead of toppling him over and taking everything for themselves says enough on its own. if the Coptics were the advanced ones why were they doing 20 years hard labour carving 11 churches out of rocks for “naked kings” that sounds like slavery to me… you telling me them niggas enslaved themselves?

 

[bobby_hill-Punt]

@caanoshaah what's wrong with your private messaging? It won't let me send you a message?

 

[caanoshaah]

@caanoshaah what's wrong with your private messaging? It won't let me send you a message?

It never worked for me idk how to get it ppl have told me about it tho

 

[caanoshaah]

@caanoshaah what's wrong with your private messaging? It won't let me send you a message?

Wait I updated to members only instead of people I follow (plus I followed you now anyway) maybe try now

 

[bobby_hill-Punt]

View attachment 364466
Wait I updated to members only instead of people I follow (plus I followed you now anyway) maybe try now

I think its the system that being updated

 

[caanoshaah]

I think its the system that being updated View attachment 364467

I wonder why pm doesn’t work for me does it work for everyone else?? @Admin yo what’s going on I’m sooo confused rn????

 

[wonyluvr]

I wonder why pm doesn’t work for me does it work for everyone else?? @Admin yo what’s going on I’m sooo confused rn????

Ask admin to do it. It happened to me before!

 

[caanoshaah]

Ask admin to do it. It happened to me before!

Do I make a new thread Imma send a pm cuz ironically my pms work to the admin only nobody else

update I sent a pm rn pray for meee @bobby_hill-Punt imma keep you posted

 

[Cisse78]

In 1882 a French explorer in Ethiopia was given a manuscript at Lalibela, the manuscript said that the church was built by God himself which is obviously a fantastical legendary tale of the building of the churches, but the manuscript also says that King Lalibela of the Zagwe dynasty and his wife Meskal Kabra called upon 500 workers from Alexandria in Egypt, they were headed by a man called Sidi-Meskal which Raffray belives to be most likely Egyptian obviously. Thus Raffray in 1882 was the first one to come to the conclusion that the Lalibela churches was not the work of 'native abyssinians'. https://data.bnf.fr/temp-work/5a43a5793ef456dbcdba9061daf1557c/

View attachment 364456


Just trust me, I have no business in lying I just dont post sources because as you can see in the previous messages the website removes pictures when you post @caanoshaah @Cisse78

Your sources are some book written by a

The Ethiopian kings were naked and lived in hut capitals this is well known

As for the church, during the reign of King Lalibela, Egyptian Copts fled perscution in Egypt to Ethiopia https://www.jstor.org/stable/23868228
View attachment 364444

The Egyptians introduced many new skills that Ethiopian society lacked
View attachment 364446

View attachment 364447

In the 16th century, Francisco Alvarez interviewed some locals; they said it was built by "Gibetes", even the most ignorant commoners knew of the foreign origin of these infrastructures

R. Sauter explains how these Gibetes are Egyptians

Job Ludolf personally interviewed the Amhara Monk Abba Gorgoryos, the monk told him that it was Egyptian architects who served under Lalibela which built the structures
View attachment 364448

Manuel De Almeida, a Jesuit who served under Ethiopian king Susenyos also says that Egyptian architects built it

After some digging and examination, archeologists concluded the churches show strong signs of Middle-eastern Christian architecture, they specifically identified East-Syriac Christian architecture https://books.google.com/books?id=alDG22A6AocC&pg=PA15-IA112&dq=Syrian+Lalibela&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ2bSbid6EAxXOvokEHeF9D4QQ6AF6BAgMEAM#v=onepage&q=Syrian Lalibela&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=8Br6Sg0YQwEC&pg=PA259&dq=lalibela+copts&hl=fr&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjth_KkzuOEAxVX1wIHHR0ODQsQ6AF6BAgHEAI#v=onepage&q=lalibela%20copts&f=false
View attachment 364449

"Some decorations reveal a Coptic influence"
https://books.google.com/books?id=iK5-EAAAQBAJ&pg=PT186&dq=lalibela+copts&hl=fr&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwixgdq8z-OEAxUF9AIHHc5UBSs4FBDoAXoECAwQAg#v=onepage&q=lalibela%20copts&f=false

View attachment 364450

Even till this day Coptic priests make up a large part of the population of the village of Lalibela where the Coptic churches are located https://books.google.com/books?id=R_EhAQAAMAAJ&q=lalibela+copts&dq=lalibela+copts&hl=fr&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiM3vLu0OOEAxXyhv0HHYPtC9E4HhDoAXoECAcQAg

View attachment 364451

Archeologist Aziz Atiya believes that Lalibela resembles christian temples in Egypt even comparing it to churches in the middle east, this coincides perfectly with what archeologists concluded in what i sent above https://books.google.com/books?id=19iwEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT117&dq=lalibela+copts&hl=fr&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1qrXM0eOEAxXqg_0HHfr9C8M4KBDoAXoECAoQAg#v=onepage&q=lalibela%20copts&f=false
View attachment 364453

An archeological study conducted by Michael Gervers reveals that the specific style of rock-cut churches in lalibela is not native and ressembles closely other similar Chritian Coptic architecture in Egypt. Therefore, he finally concluded that the tradition of rock churches emerged as a result of a close relation of the Coptic Church of Egypt and Ethiopia https://www.academia.edu/96980429/ADDIS_ABABA_UNIVERSITY_SCHOOL_OF_GRADUATE_STUDIES

The Coptic Architectural style being the most blatant and common, it is reflected trough many aspects of the churches. L. Findlay states that they resemble the smaller figures carved in wood in the Coptic churches of Cairo, he adds that the ecclesiastical relations existing between Christians from Ethiopia and the Patriarchate of Alexandria would be enough to make it a very natural a decorative exchange. https://www.persee.fr/doc/ethio_0066-2127_1963_num_5_1_1336
View attachment 364454

This foreign architectural influence is even mentioned by modern day architects who restored and worked on Ethiopian churches. Derek Matthews, the architect who restored the church of Debra-Damo, showed that the geometric patterns and numerous combinations of crosses so characteristic of the arches and panels sculpted, at Debra-Damo as elsewhere, are found in Coptic art, either in stone (5th-6th century), or wood (8th-9th century). In addition, the meanders adorning some panels are present in some Coptic fabrics from the 5th-9th centuries. However, D. Matthews cautiously notes that these motifs are difficult to date, because they were used for a very long time as some of these ornaments were already present in the time of the Pharaohs of ancient Egypt.
View attachment 364455

None of what you have given has actual historical proof that it wasn’t built by Ethiopian hands, yes the style of those churches are said to be influenced by Middle Eastern Christian architecture. All you’ve given is some records of European supremacist whose evidence is just “Oh we’ve heard so and so local say the churches were built by foreigners”.You clearly seem to be keen undermining the accomplishments of these people and I even read above in this thread where you claimed the beden boat had nothing to do with Somalis. I very much doubt you’re Somali or even horn African with all this self deprecation

 

[Idilinaa]

''Never built a boat that was sea worthy"




''No houses above one level built out of stone''


Two storey stone houses in Zayla along an old district

Ruins of stone houses and two storey homes after the Italian's bombed Bosaso (Bandar Qasim)

Three separate medieval descriptions of Northern Somali coastline.

''Piled stones and stamped earth are used to build homes of tree to four storeys."

''Tires of stones comprise the dwellings of the people''

''It is very populous with good houses of stone and white-wash and good streets, the houses are covered with terraces, the dwellers in them are black"

There were interior stone towns, villages, settlement and cities dotted across from Northern Somalia into Ogaden.

''No sewage systems''

When archeologists examined one of the towns they didn't necessary find sewage systems in the modern sense, but they found drainage and water supply infrastructure across the hilly landscapes

Some more on this:

Aside from that you can find works of cisterns, deep stone wells and even an aqueduct near Berbera i've talked about in my agricultural revolution thread.

Imagine a pastor claiming Black people "don’t know anything about the world," while he himself doesn’t know the basics of geography or history.

First of all, most of Africa aside from North and East Africa lacked natural harbors that could accommodate large seafaring vessels. That’s why maritime activity and shipbuilding were limited in many inland or western regions.

Second, people everywhere build with what’s available and affordable in their environment.

That’s why thatching exist all over the world including in Europe and were in use well into the early modern period.

Clearly, he doesn’t even know his own history. The so-called “Dark Ages” in Europe were marked by widespread illiteracy, ignorance, poor sanitation, and peasant huts , not too different from what they ridicule in others today.

This is exactly where white supremacist rhetoric collapses: Europe too had long stretches of backwardness, slum living, and educational collapse even into the 19th century during industrialization.

This how some parts of Paris looked like in the early 20th century:

Many Europeans today still live in rural poverty or in trailer parks in the American South under conditions not far removed from what they mock.

So what happened to the supposed "superior IQ"? Did they temporarily lose it and magically rediscover it when it became convenient? Or were their material conditions shaped by changing historical, environmental, and political factors like every other society?

The real irony is this, when it comes to Europe, people apply nuance. They look at diversity, historical context, and structural change. But when it comes to Africa or non-European peoples, they revert to overgeneralized caricatures flattening complex realities into lazy stereotypes.

 

[Medeea]

? I literally don’t know where you got ur information from and why you’d even try discrediting this especially for the Ethiopians when they documented their whole history…. Even the cadaans admit it’s Ethiopian architecture…. Don’t be stupid

View attachment 364443

He’s right about Egyptian Copts building the Libibla church. It’s legit. What’s even more shocking is that the Mamluks wrote the Abyssinian king was a butt-naked man whose mansion was a tent. Were they big time bias? Sure. However, The biggest Abyssinian allies the Portuguese wrote the same thing (minus the buttnaked part). They literally wrote “There are no signs of civilization here or a single urban centers.” So they started building many forts and logistic lines because there was nothing there.

Now, I don’t know where he got the idea that the Beden aren’t native to Zeila. If he has strong evidence, he need to post it already.


Back to the OP, tbh, I kinda have to agree with the coon. Outside of us, north Sudan, and Axum( that was kind of a one-time thing ), I can’t recall a single SSAfrican civilization that built impressive urban centers completely on their own. I definitely need to do more research on Mali tho.

Marka is the most beautiful town in SS Africa hands down.