Just a friendly reminder that the U.S/UN encouraged the Ethiopian invasion of Somalia

[General Asad]

Summary:
This is a memo written from an official with the UN Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea in 2006 detailing a meeting with Jenday Frazer, the Bush Administration's Assistant Secretary of State for African affairs. It is interesting in that it undercuts Bush administration officials' later assertions that they did not encourage Ethiopia to invade Somalia in 2006. It also reveals a bias on the part of Frazer in favor of Ethiopia and against Eritrea that many including former US Ambassador to the UN John Bolton believe set back difficult negotiations on the border dispute between the two countries. The document has not been released until now.

It almost 2020, 29 years since they put down the arms embargo, and we still don't have any peace. Deliberately making us weaker than stringer so they can steal our land, resources, and waters. Its time we outmaneuver this embargo and take back our docile and pacified country (Thread coming soon).

 

[Lord of Warshiekh]

Summary:
This is a memo written from an official with the UN Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea in 2006 detailing a meeting with Jenday Frazer, the Bush Administration's Assistant Secretary of State for African affairs. It is interesting in that it undercuts Bush administration officials' later assertions that they did not encourage Ethiopia to invade Somalia in 2006. It also reveals a bias on the part of Frazer in favor of Ethiopia and against Eritrea that many including former US Ambassador to the UN John Bolton believe set back difficult negotiations on the border dispute between the two countries. The document has not been released until now.

View attachment 84245 View attachment 84246 View attachment 84247 View attachment 84248 View attachment 84249

It almost 2020, 29 years since they put down the arms embargo, and we still don't have any peace. Deliberately making us weaker than stringer so they can steal our land, resources, and waters. Its time we outmaneuver this embargo and take back our docile and pacified country (Thread coming soon).

Fgs must be overthrown. Tribe politics has never worked for somalia. A strongman is needed

 

[Helios]

Fgs must be overthrown. Tribe politics has never worked for somalia. A strongman is needed

I nominate myself to do that job. I think I got what it takes to outmaneuver some old fools despite kindergarten understanding of Somali

 

[Ras]

Summary:
This is a memo written from an official with the UN Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea in 2006 detailing a meeting with Jenday Frazer, the Bush Administration's Assistant Secretary of State for African affairs. It is interesting in that it undercuts Bush administration officials' later assertions that they did not encourage Ethiopia to invade Somalia in 2006. It also reveals a bias on the part of Frazer in favor of Ethiopia and against Eritrea that many including former US Ambassador to the UN John Bolton believe set back difficult negotiations on the border dispute between the two countries. The document has not been released until now.

View attachment 84245 View attachment 84246 View attachment 84247 View attachment 84248 View attachment 84249

It almost 2020, 29 years since they put down the arms embargo, and we still don't have any peace. Deliberately making us weaker than stringer so they can steal our land, resources, and waters. Its time we outmaneuver this embargo and take back our docile and pacified country (Thread coming soon).

We manufacture our own heavy weapons using domestic resources. No sanctions breached. Problem solved.

Why can't we replicate shit Turks were building a century back? Get an artillery factory going and the country is yours.

 

[gurey]

The reason why I have no hope for somali gov is because they are painting our occupation and subjugation as some unfortunate tribal problem. In reality somalia is simply not allowed to become peaceful. Ethiopia literally have become allowed to terrorise us and paid for. All they have to do is clothes and arm some peasants.

 

[Ras]

The reason why I have no hope for somali gov is because they are painting our occupation and subjugation as some unfortunate tribal problem. In reality somalia is simply not allowed to become peaceful. Ethiopia literally have become allowed to terrorise us and paid for. All they have to do is clothes and arm some peasants.

They were the ones that also trained and funded the rebel groups that fucked us over.

It all started with the failed coup after the Ogaden war which the Ethiopians orchestrated.

We're an existential risk to Ethiopia.

 

[Lord of Warshiekh]

I nominate myself to do that job. I think I got what it takes to outmaneuver some old fools despite kindergarten understanding of Somali

Take action after learning somali. The people are already devastated. Somalia will be balkanised if action isn’t taken early.

1st step should be the dissolution of Parliament and the constitution rewritten.

2nd step should be the removal of federal presidents and speech to the people of those states that their presidents were foreign puppets.

 

[Helios]

Take action after learning somali. The people are already devastated. Somalia will be balkanised if action isn’t taken early.

1st step should be the dissolution of Parliament and the constitution rewritten.

2nd step should be the removal of federal presidents and speech to the people of those states that their presidents were foreign puppets.

There will be no constitution I will just name my next succesor when I find a suitable replacement as I age. Qabils will become systematically removed and I will brainwash the new generation out of it.

 

[SomaliWadaniSoldier]

Mudanayaal follow my lead.
We will crush both the socalled govt and terrorists.
Just needs 20K followers who each can buy ak47. We will take over a city and turn it into our base.

 

[Lord of Warshiekh]

There will be no constitution I will just name my next succesor when I find a suitable replacement as I age. Qabils will become systematically removed and I will brainwash the new generation out of it.

What if he’s a tyrant

 

[General Asad]

1979: US Goals and Objectives in Somalia:

From wikileaks:

THE FOLLOWING IS SUBMITTED IN RESPONSE TO REFTEL: PART I. US INTERESTS: US INTERESTS IN SOMALIA ARE LARGELY GEOPOLITICAL AND DERIVATIVE. IT IS IN THE US NATIONAL INTEREST TO SEE AN END TO THE INSTABILITYAND VIOLENCE IN THE HORN OF AFRICA WHICH, IN ADDITON TO CAUSING HUMAN SUFFERING, PROVIDES THE SOVIET UNION AND CUBA WITH OPPORTUNITIES FOR INTERVENTION AND EXPANDED INFLUENCE. WE MUST ALSO CONSIDER THE CONCERN OF OUR MODERATE ARAB FRIENDS THAT THE US TAKE MEASURES TO DETER THE SOVIETS AND CUBANS. AND WE WANT TO STRENGTHEN SOMALIA'S TIES TO THE WEST SO THAT SOMALIA WILL BE MORE COOPERATIVE ON MATTERS OF MUTUAL INTEREST. ALTHOUGH A FEW US FIRMS HAVE SHOWN SOME INTEREST IN INVESTING IN SOMALIA, AT THE PRESENT TIME WE HAVE NO ECONOMIC INTERESTS OF ANY CONSEQUENCE HERE. CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 02 MOGADI 00306 01 OF 02 260600Z PART II. A. IMPLEMENTATION OF GOALS AND OBJECTIVES: 1. REGIONAL STABILITY UNDERGIRDED BY A PEACEFUL SETTLEMENT OF THE OGADEN CONFLICT: -- ALTHOUGH MASSIVE SOVIET/CUBAN MILITARY SUPPORT ACCOUNTED FOR REPULSION OF SOMALIA'S INVASION OF THE Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 OGADEN, THE US HELPED CONVINCE THE SOMALI GOVERNMENT TO WITHDRAW SOONER THAN IT PROBABLY INTENDED. HOWEVER, OUR CONTRIBUTION IN ENDING THE "HOT"WAR WAS NOT MATCHED BY ANY SUCCESS IN ENCOURAGING A NEGOTITED SETTLEMENT OF THE OGADEN DISPUTE. IN FACT, THE GSDR'S DIRECT SUPPORT OF OGADENI LIBERATION FORCES IS AT OR GREATER THAN THE LEVEL OF SUPPORT IT WAS GIVING JUST BEFORE IT INVADED THE OGADEN IN LATE 1977. -- EVEN THOUGH A CEASEFIRE HAS BEEN ACHIEVED, THE SOVIET/ CUBAN MILITARY PRESENCE REMAINS UNABATED. SOMALIA CONTRIBUTES TO REGIONAL INSTABILITY BY ITS DIRECT INVOLVEMENT IN THE OGADEN GUERRILLA WARFARE, WHILE IN RESPONSE ETHIOPIA ASSISTS SOMALI DISSIDENTS AND HAS CONDUCTED AIR RAID ON SOMALI TERRITORY. IN SHORT, THERE HAS BEEN NO REAL PROGRESS TOWARD A NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT OF THE OGADEN DISPUTE. -- WE HAVE AVOIDED AN ARMS SUPPLIER ROLE. -- TO DATE, WE HAVE DONE LITTLE TO ENCOURAGE A SOMALI/ KENYA RAPPROACHEMENT. -- OUR INTEREST IN THE INDEPENDENCE OF DJIBOUTI HAS BEEN CLEARLY STATED (ALTHOUGH IN REALITY OUR INFLUENCE ON THE SITUATION HAS BEEN MINIMAL; THE CONTINUED PRESENCE OF THE FRENCH REMAINS AN ESSENTIAL INGREDIENT OF MAINTAINING DJIBOUTI'S INDEPENDENCE). 2. AN INDEPENDENT, MODERATE, NON-ALIGNED SOMALIA: CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 03 MOGADI 00306 01 OF 02 260600Z -- DESPITE SOMALIA'S UNWILLINGNESS TO CEASE ITS INVOLVEMENT IN THE GUERRILLA WAR IN THE OGADEN, THE SOMALI GOVERNMENT HAS MODERATED ITS IRREDENTIST RHETORIC.HOWEVER IT IS UNREMITTING IN ITS SUPPORT OF THE OGADEN LIBERATION FORCES. SOMALIA CONTINUES TO BE REGARDED WITH SUSPICION BY ITS NEIGHBORS AND TO RECEIVE VIRTUALLY NO SUPPORT FOR ITS CAUSE FROM BLACK AFRICA. -- SOMALIA MAINTAINS GOOD RELATIONS WITH BOTH MODERATE AND RADICAL ARAB COUNTIRES. THE GSDR ITSELF SEEM TO BE HEWING SLIGHTLY MORE CLOSELY TO THE MODERATES. ON THE MAJOR ISSUE OF THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS, IT HASGIVEN QUIET SUPPORT TO SADAT. -- ALTHOUGH DISAPPOINTED THAT THE WEST HAS NOT PROVIDED IT WITH THE MILITARY AID IT WANTS, THE GSDR HAS SHOWN THAT IT DESIRES CLOSER RELATIONS WITH WESTERN COUNTRIES, PARTICULARLY THE U.S. -- THE MISSION HAS INITIATED A PROGRAM OF CULTURAL AND EDUCATION EXCHANGES, AND IS PROCEEDING IN COOPERATION WITH THE GSDR AND WITH OTHER DONORS TO IMPLEMENT AN ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAM. 3. ENHANCE HUMAN DIGNITY: Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 -- THE MISSION'S FOOD AID PROGRAM IS DIRECTED AT ALLEVIATING THE SUFFERING OF PERSONS AFFECTED BY THE CONTINUING CONFLICT IN THE OGADEN. US CONTRIBUTIONS TO INTERNATIONAL RELEF EFFORTS HAVE SERVED THE SAME END. GRANT ASSISTANCE HAS ALSO BEEN GEARED TO THE NEEDS OF SOMALIS WHO WERE RESETTLED AS A RESULT OF THE SEVERE DROUGHT OF 1974-75. -- IN THE HUMAN RIGHTS FIELD, OUR NEWLY INITIATED (AS WELL AS PROPOSED) ECONOMIC AID PROGRAMS ARE AIMED AT ASSISTING THE GSDR TO COMBAT DISEASE AND HUNGER. HOWEVER, WE HAVE HAD LITTLE IF ANY IMPACT ON IMPROVING THE GSDR'S RECORD IN ACCORDING CIVIL RIGHTS TO THE SOMALI PEOPLE. CONFIDENTIAL NNN CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 01 MOGADI 00306 02 OF 02 260608Z ACTION AF-10 INFO OCT-01 ISO-00 EUR-12 NEA-06 ARA-11 EB-08 CIAE-00 DODE-00 PM-05 H-01 INR-10 L-03 NSAE-00 NSC-05 PA-01 SP-02 SS-15 ICA-11 SIG-03 MMO-01 ACDA-12 OES-09 SAA-01 SES-01 AID-05 OMB-01 TRSE-00 IO-14 HA-05 AGR-20 SMS-01 COME-00 /174 W ------------------077889 260616Z /15 R 251017Z JAN 79 FM AMEMBASSY MOGADISCIO TO SECSTATE WASHDC 7674 C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 2 OF 2 MOGADISCIO 0306 B. DISCUSSION: -- THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES CURRENTLY AGREED UPON REMAIN VALID, ALTHOUGH THEY NEED SOME REFORMULATION (SEE PART IV BELOW). AS TO WHAT REMAINS TO BE DONE, 1) CONTINUED VIOLENCE IN THE OGADEN AND PERSISTENT KENYAN SUSPICION OF SOMALIA SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES; 2) SOMALIA'S MORE MODERATE AND NON-ALIGNED APPROACH TO FOREIGN RELATIONS IS AS YET NOT FIRMLY ANCHORED; AND 3) PROGRESS IN ENHANCING HUMAN DIGNITY IS MIXED -- GOOD AS REGARDS ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT, POOR IN THE AREA OF CIVIL LIBERTIES. --THE CONFLICT IN THE OGADEN AND UNCHANGING ATTITUDES OF SOMALIA AND ETHIPIA REGARDING RESOLUTION OF THAT PROBLEM WILL IMPEDE THE ACHIEVEMENT OF ALL OUR GOALS FOR SOMALIA. NOT ONLY WILL INSTABILITY PERSIST, BUT ALSO THE GSDR'S APPROACH TO FOREIGN RELATIONS AND ITS ABILITY TO MEET THE NEEDS OF ITS PEOPLE WILL BE AFFECTED BY THE PERSISTENCE OF, AND SOMALIA'S INVOLVEMENT IN, WARFARE IN Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 THE OGADEN. 11 OUR ABILITY TO STRENGTHEN US/SOMALIA RELATIONS AND TO ENHANCE HUMAN DIGNITY IN SOMALIA WILL BE DIMINISHED IF USAID'S FY-80 DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE BUDGET FOR SOMALIA IS INSUFFICIENT TO ADEQUATELY CARRY FORWARD THE AID PROGRAMS WE WILL INITIATE THIS FISCAL CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 02 MOGADI 00306 02 OF 02 260608Z YEAR. PART III. KEY POLICY-LEVEL ISSUES: THE CONFLICT IN THE OGADEN WILL PERSIST AS A MAJOR FACTOR OF THE INTABILITY IN THE HORN OF AFRICA. ALTHOUGH THE INFLUENCE OF THE SOVIET UNION IN ETHIOPIAAND THE SIZE AND QUALITY OF ITS MILITARY PRESENCE IN THAT COUNTRY WILL NOT DEPEND SOLELY ON SOMALIA'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE OGADEN STRUGGLE, SOMALI'S POLICY AND ACTIONS WILL CONTRIBUTE TO CONTINUED SOVIET/CUBAN INTERVENTION IN THE AREA. AND THAT INTERVENTION WILL WORRY MODERATE ARAB STATES AND AFFECT THEIR ATTITUDES CONCERNING THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UNITED STATES. PART IV. GOALS AND OBJECTIVES: A. A DIMINUTION OF TENSION IN THE HORN AND A PEACEFUL SOLUTION TO THE CONFLICT IN THE OGADEN. (A COROLLARY TO THIS GOAL IS WITHDRAWAL OF CUBAN TROOPS FROM THE HORN AND A DECREASE IN SOVIET INVOLVEMENT AND INFLUENCE IN THE REGION.): -- ENCOURAGE A NONVIOLENT, GRADUALIST AND CONCILIATRY APPROACH WHICH WOULD LEAD TO A NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT THAT WOULD RECOGNIZE THE RELEVANCE OF BOTH THE PRINCIPLES OF TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY AND SELF-DETERMINATION. -- CONTINUE TO MAKE CLEAR THAT WE CANNOT IMPLEMENT OUR DECISION IN PRINCPLE TO PROVIDE DEFENSIVE ARMS UNTIL SOMALIA CEASES ITS DIRECT MILITARY INVOLVEMENT IN THE OGADEN CONFLICT. -- ENCOURAGE A SOMALI/KENYA RAPPROACHEMENT WHICH WILL ENHANCE KENYAN SECURITY AND ENSURE THE RIGHTS OF THE SOMALI MINORITY IN KENYA. -- EMPHASIZE CONTINUED U.S. INTEREST IN THE INDEPENDENCE CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 03 MOGADI 00306 02 OF 02 260608Z OF DJIBOUTI. B. AN INDEPENDENT, MODERATE, NON-ALIGNED SOMALIA WITH CLOSER TIES TO THE UNITED STATES. Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 -- DEMONSTRATE OUR WILLINGNESS, IN COOPERATION WITH OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES AND MODERATE ARAB STATES, TO ASSIST SOMALIA TO PURSUE AN INDEPENDENT, NON-ALIGNED FOREIGN POLICY. -- CONTINUE TO COOPERATE WITH OTHER DONOR STATES AND INTERNATIONAL AGENCIES IN IMPLEMENTING ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE PROJECTS WHICH WILL MANIFEST OUR INTEREST IN SOMALIA'S NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT. -- ENCOURAGE SOMALIA TO ORIENT ITS POLICIESTO ACCOMMODATE THE CONCERNS OF THE MODERATE NATIONS OF THE REGION, INCLUDING THE MODERATE ARAB STATES AND KENYA. -- EXPAND THE SCOPE OF OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH SOMALIA IN A VARIETY OF FIELDS, E.G., GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT, CULTURAL, EDUCATIONAL, COMMERCIAL, AND MILITARY. C. ENHANCE HUMAN DIGNITY: -- COOPERATE WITH THE GSDR AND WITH OTHER DONORS TO ALLEVIATE THE HUMAN SUFFERING CAUSED BY WARFARE IN THE OGADEN. -- PARTICIPATE THROUGH OUR AID AND CULTURAL PROGRAMS IN ASSISTING SOMALIA'S ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL PROGRESS. -- MAKE CLEAR US CONCERN FOR THE WHOLE RANGE OF HUMAN RIGHTS. -- RESPOND WHEN THE NEED ARISES FOR GRANT ASSISTANCE IN CONNECTION WITH NATURAL DISASTERS.

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1979MOGADI00306_e.html

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

"worse case scenario is that icu takes over somalia"
i really love how the US is more concerned with who takes controll of somalia rather than stopping the ongoing war.

 

[General Asad]

Siyad Barre was so pathetic. Why would you rely on a different nation for military assistance?

Wiki leaks:
2 SUMMARY: IN A LENGTHY CONVERSATION WITH ME OCTOBER 13, PRESIDENT SIAD REPEATED HIS DISAPPOINTMENT OVER US UNWILLINGNESS TO PROVIDE MILITARY ASSISTANCE TO SOMALIA AND WONDERED ABOUT OUR MOTIVES. HE SPOKE OF SOMALIA'S NEED FOR ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND TOOK COGNIZANCE OF US ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE. HE SAID THE TRILATERAL AID PROJECTS WOULD BE PARTICULARLY BENEFICIAL CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 02 MOGADI 03692 01 OF 02 141344Z TO SOMALIA AND TO SOMALI-AMERICAN RELATIONS. ECONOMIC PROGRESS WAS VITAL TO SOMALIA'S FUTURE WELL-BEING, BUT HE NECESSARILY WAS PREOCCUPIED WITH MILITARY AID BECAUSE OF THE VERY REAL CURRENT THREAT TO SOMALIA'S SURVIVAL. HE WAS PREPARED TO GIVE THE US ACCESS TO SOMALIA'S PORTS AND COAST, OR RESPOND IN WHATEVER WAY HE COULD TO OUR NEEDS IF WE WOULD CHOOSE TO HELP PROTECT SOMALIA. HE HOPED TO HAVE USEFUL DISCUSSIONS WITH ASSISTANT Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 SECRETARY MOOSE WHEN THEY MET NEXT WEEKEND. END SUMMARY. 3. RESPONDING QUICKLY TO MY REQUEST TO SEE HIM, PRESIDENT SIAD ASKED ME TO MEET WITH HIM SATURDAY NIGHT, OCTOBER 13. AT THE OUTSET OF OUR CONVERSATION, I REPEATED THE ESSENCE OF WHAT I HAD TOLD AMBASSADOR ADDOU EARLIER IN THE WEEK (REFTEL), I.E., THE US WOULD CONTINUE TO PROVIDE SOMALIA WITH ECONOMIC AND HUMANITARIAN AID, BUT BECAUSE OF THE SOMALI GOVERNMENT'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE OGADEN WE WOULD NOT CHANGE OUR POLICY REGARDING MILITARY ASSISTANCE. 4. SIAD EXPRESSED DISAPPOINTMENT THAT THE USG PERSISTED IN REFERRING TO SOMALIA'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE OGADEN AND NOT RESPONDING TO HIS APPEALS FOR HELP. HE ASKED, RHETORICALLY AS IT TURNED OUT, WHETHER I REALLY BELIEVED SOMALIA WAS DIRECTLY ENGAGED MILITARILY IN THE OGADEN AND WHAT EVIDENCE DID WE HAVE TO SUPPORT SUCH A CONCLUSION. HE CONTINUED THAT WE APPARENTLY BELIEVED WHAT SOMALIA'S ENEMIES WANTED US TO BELIEVE, AND IF WE WANTED THE TRUTH WE WERE FREE TO SEND A FACT-FINDING TEAM TO SOMALIA WHENEVER WE WISHED. AFTER STATING, AS HE HAS BEFORE, HIS BELIEF THAT US POLICY TOWARD SOMALIA MUST BE BASED ON SOME OTHER FACTOR THAN THE OGADEN, HE SAID THE US SHOULD NOT HOLD OUT THE HOPE THAT IF ETHIOPIA BECOMES MORE STABLE THE SOVIETS WILL EITHER GO OR DRASTICALLY REDUCE THEIR PRESENCE AND INFLUENCE THERE. HE CITED A RECENT CONVERSATION IN BERLIN BETWEEN A SOMALI OFFICIAL AND THE GDR DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER IN WHICH THE CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 03 MOGADI 03692 01 OF 02 141344Z GERMAN DECLARED THAT THE SOVIET UNION AND ITS EASTERN BLOC FRIENDS WOULD PAY ANY COST TO MAINTAIN THEIR POSITION IN ETHIOPIA. 5. SIAD REITERATED HE WAS "VERY SAD THAT AFTER MY APPEAL THE UNITED STATES HAS NOT HELPED, THAT IT HAS NO CONFIDENCE IN US." HE SAID SOMALIA'S DISAPPOINTMENT WITH THE US ATTITUDE WAS HEIGHTENED AFTER SOMALIA HAD SUPPORTED THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS AND AS A CONSEQUENCE HAD SUFFERED "ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL DIFFICULTIES." HE THEN STATED THAT HE NEEDED TO KNOW "SPECIFICALLY WHAT YOU WANT US TO DO ABOUT THE OGADEN." TO THE EXTENT THAT HE COULD, HE WOULD RESPOND TO OUR CONCERNS. HE ADDED THAT, MOREOVER, SOMALIA WAS READY TO COOPERATE WITH THE US IN WHATEVER MANNER WE WISHED; THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, "IF THESE UNCERTAINTIES COULD BE SET ASIDE, YOU COULD HAVE THE USE OF OUR PORTS AND OUR COAST." QUOTING A SOMALI PROVERB, "BUY THE MAN AND THE CAMEL WHEN THEY ARE CHEAP," HE INDICATED WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIS OFFER AT THIS OPPORTUNE TIME. CONFIDENTIAL Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 NNN CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 01 MOGADI 03692 02 OF 02 141353Z ACTION AF-10 INFO OCT-01 NEA-06 ADS-00 EUR-12 PM-06 SP-02 SS-15 EB-08 OMB-01 TRSE-00 AID-05 INRE-00 CIAE-00 INR-10 NSAE-00 SSO-00 NSCE-00 DODE-00 /076 W ------------------088145 141402Z /46 O 140855Z OCT 79 FM AMEMBASSY MOGADISHU TO SECSTATE WAHSDC IMMEDIATE 9389 INFO AMEMBASSY ADDIS ABABA AMEMBASSY CAIRO AMEMBASSY DJIBOUTI AMEMBASSY JIDDA AMEMBASSY KHARTOUM AMEMBASSY NAIROBI AMEMBASSY PORT LOUIS IMMEDIATE AMEMBASSY ROME AMEMBASSY VICTORIA IMMEDIATE C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 2 OF 2 MOGADISHU 3692 PORT LOUIS AND VICTORIA FOR ASSISTANT SECRETARY MOOSE 6. SIAD ASKED ABOUT THE STATUS OF THE TRILATERAL AID PROPOSAL. WHEN I REPLIED THAT WE HAD NOT HEARD ANYTHING FURTHER FROM THE SAUDIS, HE SAID HE WOULD BE "VERY HAPPY" IF THE PROPOSED PROJECTS WERE INITIATED AND THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS CAME TO SOMALIA. HE SAID HE WELCOMED OUT TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, BUT REGRETTED IT HAD MADE NO IMPACT ON THE PEOPLE. US PROGRAMS WERE NOT VISIBLE AND AS A RESULT THE US DID NOT GET ENOUGH CREDIT FOR WHAT IT WAS DOING TO ASSIST SOMALIA. THE MERCA PORT AND GAROE/BOSASO ROAD PROJECTS, ON THE CONTRARY, WOULD PROVIDE CLEAR EVIDENCE OF US FRIENDSHIP AND WILLINGNESS TO HELP. HE THEN TALKED ABOUT SOMALIA'S GREAT NEED TO DEVELOP ECONOMICALLY AND SOCIALLY. HE SAID HE WAS PREOCCUPIED WITH SECURITY NOT BECAUSE HE WAS A WARMONGER, BUT BECAUSE "SOMALIA CANNOT HAVE ECONOMIC PROGRESS IF ITS SECURITY IS ENDANGERED." CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 02 MOGADI 03692 02 OF 02 141353Z 7. HE SAID HE LOOKED FORWARD TO TALKING TO DICK MOOSE, BUT WISHED MOOSE COULD STAY LONGER SO HE COULD SEE FOR HIMSELF Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 "WHAT VALUE SOMALIA HAS FOR THE UNITED STATES." WE DISCUSSED THE PROGRAM FOR THE OCTOBER 21 CELEBRATIONS (10TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE "REVOLUTION") AND HE SAID HE WOULD TRY TO SEE MR MOOSE ON THE NIGHT OF THE 20TH AND AGAIN ON THE 22ND BEFORE MOOSE'S DEPARTURE. 8. COMMENT: IT IS INTERESTING THAT AS IN OUR PREVIOUS CONVERSATION, AND IN CONTRAST TO OUR TALKS EARLIER IN THE YEAR, SIAD HAS DROPPED HIS ASSERTION THAT SOMALIA FACES THE THREAT OF IMMEDIATE INVASION BY HOSTILE FORCES. NOR DID HE REFER TO PRESSURES ON HIM TO TURN BACK TO THE SOVIETS. HIS MEETINGS WITH ASSISTANT SECRETARY MOOSE MAY SHOW WHETHER THESE WERE MERELY OVERSIGHTS ON HIS PART. 9. GIVEN HIS BYZANTINE WAY OF THINKING, IT COULD BE THAT, AS HE SAYS, SIAD SIMPLY CANNOT ACCEPT THAT WE ARE AS CONCERNED AS WE SAY WE ARE ABOUT THE OGADEN CONFLICT AND SOMALIA'S ROLE IN IT, AND THAT TO HIM THERE HAS TO BE SOME ULTERIOR MOTIVE BEHIND OUR REFUSAL TO PROVIDE SECURITY ASSISTANCE TO SOMALIA. 10. NEVER BEFORE HAS SIAD SPOKEN SO EMPHATICALLY IN FAVOR OF THE TRILATERAL AID PROPOSAL AND, ESPECIALLY, COE PARTICIPATION. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF THERE IS SOMETHING WE COULD DO TO ENCOURAGE THE SAUDIS TO ACT FAVORABLY ON THE PROPOSAL, WE SHOULD DO IT. 11. I HAVE JUST RECEIVED THE DRAFT TALKING POINTS FOR THE MOOSE-SIAD MEETING AND WILL BE COMMENTING ON THEM. IF MY CONVERSATION WITH SIAD IS ANY INDICATION, DICK HAD BETTER BE PREPARED FOR, IN ADDITION TO THE QUESTIONS RAISED IN THE CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 03 MOGADI 03692 02 OF 02 141353Z TALKING POINTS, QUERIES BY SIAD REGARDING WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT SOMALIA'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE OGADEN AND WHAT PRECISELY IT IS THAT WE WANT HIM TO DO. PETTERSON

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1979MOGADI03692_e.html

 

[Tukraq]

That “invasion” was nessecary to restore peace in the terrorist filled south, and established some
Level of stability and brought back some institutions, although hasn’t been built off yet as we still as a fgs only control 2 blocks, this wasn’t really Ethiopia per say but US coordinated which we needed the US to help us establish a government, prior to this it was warlord territory

 

[Samaalism]

The problem is a tribal problem. When somalis deal with the tribal problems and become united there will be a lifting of the arms embargo. While fed states are being attacked and tribalism is at 1991 peak then no arms embargo will be lifted because we will simply start killing each other. Imagine somalia was off an arms embargo what would have happened in kismayo. Somalis need to agree to a constitution. Negotiate a unity or exit of Somaliland then negotiate the eastern border. And sticking to the constitution the moment the constitution is not respected we’ll start killing each other. Wallahi somalia is in a worse position than 1991 and 2010. Tribalism and Islamic extremism is both at an all time high. The gov is seiged in xamar and would fall in a matter of days to weeks if foreigners left.

 

[imperialist]

Take action after learning somali. The people are already devastated. Somalia will be balkanised if action isn’t taken early.

1st step should be the dissolution of Parliament and the constitution rewritten.

2nd step should be the removal of federal presidents and speech to the people of those states that their presidents were foreign puppets.

It's better to build upon what's already there than start all over. Fgs should respect where their jurisdiction stops and stop meddling with member states internal politics.

 

[Tukraq]

The problem is a tribal problem. When somalis deal with the tribal problems and become united there will be a lifting of the arms embargo. While fed states are being attacked and tribalism is at 1991 peak then no arms embargo will be lifted because we will simply start killing each other. Imagine somalia was off an arms embargo what would have happened in kismayo. Somalis need to agree to a constitution. Negotiate a unity or exit of Somaliland then negotiate the eastern border. And sticking to the constitution the moment the constitution is not respected we’ll start killing each other. Wallahi somalia is in a worse position than 1991 and 2010. Tribalism and Islamic extremism is both at an all time high. The gov is seiged in xamar and would fall in a matter of days to weeks if foreigners left.

yup defiantly a tribal problem that needs a resolution

 

[Tukraq]

It's better to build upon what's already there than start all over. Fgs should respect where their jurisdiction stops and stop meddling with member states internal politics.

@Lord of Warshiekh just has a bad political lense and no real feel for that arena, the dude is calling for us going back to the low IQ cult of personality type governance and talking from a position of "power" in post civil war somalia where the populace will laugh in your face(did he not see how they kicked out barre? aint no strong arming the somali populace ever again lol), what we need in somalia is the splitting of power as a government, checks and balances, a proper constitution to levy equal powers between states and the federal government and a Supreme Court to mediate, and thus giving the constituents the power through the voting of their local representatives and states while having federal representatives, creating a stable democratic government where the people are empowered which will be long lasting more stable and the best option for a nations economy

 

[tyrannicalmanager]

Siyad Barre was so pathetic. Why would you rely on a different nation for military assistance?

Wiki leaks:
2 SUMMARY: IN A LENGTHY CONVERSATION WITH ME OCTOBER 13, PRESIDENT SIAD REPEATED HIS DISAPPOINTMENT OVER US UNWILLINGNESS TO PROVIDE MILITARY ASSISTANCE TO SOMALIA AND WONDERED ABOUT OUR MOTIVES. HE SPOKE OF SOMALIA'S NEED FOR ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND TOOK COGNIZANCE OF US ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE. HE SAID THE TRILATERAL AID PROJECTS WOULD BE PARTICULARLY BENEFICIAL CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 02 MOGADI 03692 01 OF 02 141344Z TO SOMALIA AND TO SOMALI-AMERICAN RELATIONS. ECONOMIC PROGRESS WAS VITAL TO SOMALIA'S FUTURE WELL-BEING, BUT HE NECESSARILY WAS PREOCCUPIED WITH MILITARY AID BECAUSE OF THE VERY REAL CURRENT THREAT TO SOMALIA'S SURVIVAL. HE WAS PREPARED TO GIVE THE US ACCESS TO SOMALIA'S PORTS AND COAST, OR RESPOND IN WHATEVER WAY HE COULD TO OUR NEEDS IF WE WOULD CHOOSE TO HELP PROTECT SOMALIA. HE HOPED TO HAVE USEFUL DISCUSSIONS WITH ASSISTANT Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 SECRETARY MOOSE WHEN THEY MET NEXT WEEKEND. END SUMMARY. 3. RESPONDING QUICKLY TO MY REQUEST TO SEE HIM, PRESIDENT SIAD ASKED ME TO MEET WITH HIM SATURDAY NIGHT, OCTOBER 13. AT THE OUTSET OF OUR CONVERSATION, I REPEATED THE ESSENCE OF WHAT I HAD TOLD AMBASSADOR ADDOU EARLIER IN THE WEEK (REFTEL), I.E., THE US WOULD CONTINUE TO PROVIDE SOMALIA WITH ECONOMIC AND HUMANITARIAN AID, BUT BECAUSE OF THE SOMALI GOVERNMENT'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE OGADEN WE WOULD NOT CHANGE OUR POLICY REGARDING MILITARY ASSISTANCE. 4. SIAD EXPRESSED DISAPPOINTMENT THAT THE USG PERSISTED IN REFERRING TO SOMALIA'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE OGADEN AND NOT RESPONDING TO HIS APPEALS FOR HELP. HE ASKED, RHETORICALLY AS IT TURNED OUT, WHETHER I REALLY BELIEVED SOMALIA WAS DIRECTLY ENGAGED MILITARILY IN THE OGADEN AND WHAT EVIDENCE DID WE HAVE TO SUPPORT SUCH A CONCLUSION. HE CONTINUED THAT WE APPARENTLY BELIEVED WHAT SOMALIA'S ENEMIES WANTED US TO BELIEVE, AND IF WE WANTED THE TRUTH WE WERE FREE TO SEND A FACT-FINDING TEAM TO SOMALIA WHENEVER WE WISHED. AFTER STATING, AS HE HAS BEFORE, HIS BELIEF THAT US POLICY TOWARD SOMALIA MUST BE BASED ON SOME OTHER FACTOR THAN THE OGADEN, HE SAID THE US SHOULD NOT HOLD OUT THE HOPE THAT IF ETHIOPIA BECOMES MORE STABLE THE SOVIETS WILL EITHER GO OR DRASTICALLY REDUCE THEIR PRESENCE AND INFLUENCE THERE. HE CITED A RECENT CONVERSATION IN BERLIN BETWEEN A SOMALI OFFICIAL AND THE GDR DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER IN WHICH THE CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 03 MOGADI 03692 01 OF 02 141344Z GERMAN DECLARED THAT THE SOVIET UNION AND ITS EASTERN BLOC FRIENDS WOULD PAY ANY COST TO MAINTAIN THEIR POSITION IN ETHIOPIA. 5. SIAD REITERATED HE WAS "VERY SAD THAT AFTER MY APPEAL THE UNITED STATES HAS NOT HELPED, THAT IT HAS NO CONFIDENCE IN US." HE SAID SOMALIA'S DISAPPOINTMENT WITH THE US ATTITUDE WAS HEIGHTENED AFTER SOMALIA HAD SUPPORTED THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS AND AS A CONSEQUENCE HAD SUFFERED "ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL DIFFICULTIES." HE THEN STATED THAT HE NEEDED TO KNOW "SPECIFICALLY WHAT YOU WANT US TO DO ABOUT THE OGADEN." TO THE EXTENT THAT HE COULD, HE WOULD RESPOND TO OUR CONCERNS. HE ADDED THAT, MOREOVER, SOMALIA WAS READY TO COOPERATE WITH THE US IN WHATEVER MANNER WE WISHED; THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, "IF THESE UNCERTAINTIES COULD BE SET ASIDE, YOU COULD HAVE THE USE OF OUR PORTS AND OUR COAST." QUOTING A SOMALI PROVERB, "BUY THE MAN AND THE CAMEL WHEN THEY ARE CHEAP," HE INDICATED WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIS OFFER AT THIS OPPORTUNE TIME. CONFIDENTIAL Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 NNN CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 01 MOGADI 03692 02 OF 02 141353Z ACTION AF-10 INFO OCT-01 NEA-06 ADS-00 EUR-12 PM-06 SP-02 SS-15 EB-08 OMB-01 TRSE-00 AID-05 INRE-00 CIAE-00 INR-10 NSAE-00 SSO-00 NSCE-00 DODE-00 /076 W ------------------088145 141402Z /46 O 140855Z OCT 79 FM AMEMBASSY MOGADISHU TO SECSTATE WAHSDC IMMEDIATE 9389 INFO AMEMBASSY ADDIS ABABA AMEMBASSY CAIRO AMEMBASSY DJIBOUTI AMEMBASSY JIDDA AMEMBASSY KHARTOUM AMEMBASSY NAIROBI AMEMBASSY PORT LOUIS IMMEDIATE AMEMBASSY ROME AMEMBASSY VICTORIA IMMEDIATE C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 2 OF 2 MOGADISHU 3692 PORT LOUIS AND VICTORIA FOR ASSISTANT SECRETARY MOOSE 6. SIAD ASKED ABOUT THE STATUS OF THE TRILATERAL AID PROPOSAL. WHEN I REPLIED THAT WE HAD NOT HEARD ANYTHING FURTHER FROM THE SAUDIS, HE SAID HE WOULD BE "VERY HAPPY" IF THE PROPOSED PROJECTS WERE INITIATED AND THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS CAME TO SOMALIA. HE SAID HE WELCOMED OUT TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE, BUT REGRETTED IT HAD MADE NO IMPACT ON THE PEOPLE. US PROGRAMS WERE NOT VISIBLE AND AS A RESULT THE US DID NOT GET ENOUGH CREDIT FOR WHAT IT WAS DOING TO ASSIST SOMALIA. THE MERCA PORT AND GAROE/BOSASO ROAD PROJECTS, ON THE CONTRARY, WOULD PROVIDE CLEAR EVIDENCE OF US FRIENDSHIP AND WILLINGNESS TO HELP. HE THEN TALKED ABOUT SOMALIA'S GREAT NEED TO DEVELOP ECONOMICALLY AND SOCIALLY. HE SAID HE WAS PREOCCUPIED WITH SECURITY NOT BECAUSE HE WAS A WARMONGER, BUT BECAUSE "SOMALIA CANNOT HAVE ECONOMIC PROGRESS IF ITS SECURITY IS ENDANGERED." CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 02 MOGADI 03692 02 OF 02 141353Z 7. HE SAID HE LOOKED FORWARD TO TALKING TO **** MOOSE, BUT WISHED MOOSE COULD STAY LONGER SO HE COULD SEE FOR HIMSELF Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 Sheryl P. Walter Declassified/Released US Department of State EO Systematic Review 20 Mar 2014 "WHAT VALUE SOMALIA HAS FOR THE UNITED STATES." WE DISCUSSED THE PROGRAM FOR THE OCTOBER 21 CELEBRATIONS (10TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE "REVOLUTION") AND HE SAID HE WOULD TRY TO SEE MR MOOSE ON THE NIGHT OF THE 20TH AND AGAIN ON THE 22ND BEFORE MOOSE'S DEPARTURE. 8. COMMENT: IT IS INTERESTING THAT AS IN OUR PREVIOUS CONVERSATION, AND IN CONTRAST TO OUR TALKS EARLIER IN THE YEAR, SIAD HAS DROPPED HIS ASSERTION THAT SOMALIA FACES THE THREAT OF IMMEDIATE INVASION BY HOSTILE FORCES. NOR DID HE REFER TO PRESSURES ON HIM TO TURN BACK TO THE SOVIETS. HIS MEETINGS WITH ASSISTANT SECRETARY MOOSE MAY SHOW WHETHER THESE WERE MERELY OVERSIGHTS ON HIS PART. 9. GIVEN HIS BYZANTINE WAY OF THINKING, IT COULD BE THAT, AS HE SAYS, SIAD SIMPLY CANNOT ACCEPT THAT WE ARE AS CONCERNED AS WE SAY WE ARE ABOUT THE OGADEN CONFLICT AND SOMALIA'S ROLE IN IT, AND THAT TO HIM THERE HAS TO BE SOME ULTERIOR MOTIVE BEHIND OUR REFUSAL TO PROVIDE SECURITY ASSISTANCE TO SOMALIA. 10. NEVER BEFORE HAS SIAD SPOKEN SO EMPHATICALLY IN FAVOR OF THE TRILATERAL AID PROPOSAL AND, ESPECIALLY, COE PARTICIPATION. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF THERE IS SOMETHING WE COULD DO TO ENCOURAGE THE SAUDIS TO ACT FAVORABLY ON THE PROPOSAL, WE SHOULD DO IT. 11. I HAVE JUST RECEIVED THE DRAFT TALKING POINTS FOR THE MOOSE-SIAD MEETING AND WILL BE COMMENTING ON THEM. IF MY CONVERSATION WITH SIAD IS ANY INDICATION, **** HAD BETTER BE PREPARED FOR, IN ADDITION TO THE QUESTIONS RAISED IN THE CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL PAGE 03 MOGADI 03692 02 OF 02 141353Z TALKING POINTS, QUERIES BY SIAD REGARDING WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT SOMALIA'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE OGADEN AND WHAT PRECISELY IT IS THAT WE WANT HIM TO DO. PETTERSON

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/1979MOGADI03692_e.html

i can understand barres need for military aid from american especially in the ogaden war, but does he really need to sound this pathetic? to give him credit though he was giong up and against agianst a coalition of communist states with unlimited support from ussr.
ogaden war was a mistake, barre should've given wslf more weapons and support rather than going to a war which our victory depended on how fast we could defeat the enemy before we ran out of supplies.

 

[Lord of Warshiekh]

@Lord of Warshiekh just has a bad political lense and no real feel for that arena, the dude is calling for us going back to the low IQ cult of personality type governance and talking from a position of "power" in post civil war somalia where the populace will laugh in your face
what we need in somalia is the splitting of power as a government, checks and balances, a proper constitution to levy equal powers between states and the federal government and a Supreme Court to mediate, and thus giving the constituents the power through the voting of their local representatives and states while having federal representatives, creating a stable democratic government where the people are empowered which will be long lasting more stable and the best option for a nations economy

‘Laugh in my face’...


1)I do not have a ‘bad political lens’
—— After almost 3 decades of constant and ceaseless conflict. A final agreement was formalised in the 2012 constitution giving each state a degree of autonomy. This autonomy is confined within its boundaries under the ‘constitution’ you are defending. This ‘constitution’ is ignored and the last thing the federal member states could care about.
My evidence?

Article (50) - (a), (g) were flagrantly broken by the Federal Members.

This constitution is a mere joke that serves no duty but to be an imaginary exposition, never implemented.

2)I never said that a leader with a ‘cult of personality’ should take power.
———I believe that Clan-politics and a Clan-Dictatorship are the exact same thing. If are referring to Barre, then he was no different to the current leaders in somalia, focused on their own clan.

3)You talk about a Supreme Court to mediate and act as a neutral...
———The Constitution clearly mentions that in articles 108, 109 that the constitution must be upheld in a Constitutional court and as mentioned in (a)(g) of Article 50 must cooperate. We saw slaughter 3 days ago in Tawfiq District between puntland and Galmudug, what constitution was preserved?


GTFOH!