HISTORY Jews in Somalia?

[Shimbiris]

There’s a reason we are called Isaaq. We are the only true descendants of Isaac in the Horn.

I have a business proposal for you, walaalkay.

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[Riftvalley]

@alchemist, the “badgal” celebration involving the bull being taken to the shore still takes part in the south. The video i posted in this thread seems to have been taken down from TikTok:https://www.somalispot.com/threads/bull-slaughtering-festival.183613/

 

[Midas]

A couple of interesting excerpts from a (2025) paper I found.

González-Ruibal, A. (2025). Colonies and colonialism in the Horn of Africa: From the first millennium BC to the nineteenth century. Azania: Archaeological Research in Africa. https://doi.org/10.1080/0067270X.2025.2510762

In summary, no South Arabian kings are found in Pre-Aksumite inscriptions, and there are no Sabaean records mentioning migrations into the Horn (currently). The evidence that does exist consists of isolated islands or small enclaves exhibiting South Arabian stylistic features, rather than sustained settlements or a long-term presence. Societies in the Northern Horn had already developed complex agropastoral states and engaged in long-distance trade with Egypt and Arabia well before any Sabaean influence. Religious and cultural overlap was limited, with only five of eleven local divinities matching those from South Arabia. In contrast, traditions such as the Ona culture in Asmara remained entirely indigenous. Along the northern Somali coast, enclaves never established themselves; Somali pastoralist mobility, autonomy, cultural differences, and a general resistance to outside influence prevented integration.

So much for overstating actual Sabbean influence in the Horn. It was small, limited and episodic at best. If I find new information, I stand to be corrected, but this appears to be the main takeaway. Cheers.

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Isn't it wild how the part of Yemen saba was in . Never had a s strong seafaring tradition but were supposed to believe it was "unambiguously a colony

 

[Sophisticate]

Isn't it wild how the part of Yemen saba was in . Never had a s strong seafaring tradition but were supposed to believe it was "unambiguously a colony

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[Apostle]

You're wrong, and somewhat right in another way. You are right in one thing: what defines our ethnicity today in terms of values and how we see ourselves as people cultivated mostly in the Islamic period, but we've had an epochal period in our ethno-graphic anthropological historical timeline that stretches much deeper, concluding that, as a people, we have a much greater depth of temporal existence. We were the same relational population before the Islamic period, meaning, we had a coherent ethno relation, only mixing among ourselves, keeping lifestyles and attitudes from those roots. This goes back to when we came. Our foundation as a coherent group goes back 2800 years. At several points in that history, we've had cultural, social, and religious change.

So to put it simply, we as people existed way prior, although the introduction of Islam defines who we are today by far, since that is the latest and strongest reference point.

I've proven comprehensively through interdisciplinary evidence that is hard and established that prior to Islam and during, Somalis had strong ethnic and relational concepts since we arrived in the region, relative to other Ethiopians with whom we strictly did not mix. Ancient Somali clans used to mix highly amongst each other as today, but no gene flow with Ethiopians. They kept the same cultural foundations and had the same genes. This is impossible to say; they did all that while not relating to each other in an "ethnic" sense.

I reject the extreme and unrealistic views that some hold that Islam does not define much of our current ethnic definitions and lifeways. That is simply nonsense. Much of our ethnic value system is at the core of Islamic, with Islamic history having the greatest gravity that we shift from, and much of what has happened since Islam defines most, if not almost everything, we are today.

But the bottom line is, we're of a coherent population continuity with diachronic change in religion and lifeways (though lifeways such as subsistence, pastoral, farming, and trade all established before the Islamic period). Somalis did not appear out of nowhere upon the introduction of Islam, nor were the clans hard barriers of ethnic associations whatsoever, as proven by genetic realities. As a people, we descend 100% from those pre-Islamic ancestors who were already a coherent people. In fact, we are probably the only population that can say this. The Italians, heavily mixed. The Greeks...well, they were never homogenous unless you go way back in time and only take one regional snapshot. The Chinese, a historical mixed bag. All the Europeans, well, I don't even have to mention it since only a few centuries have had the entire region revamp.

The only people that we can say are like us are Arabs, but I don't think you would ever say that Arabs did not exist before they were Muslims.

It is important to bring realism to this narrow definition that has little explanatory power to define our history and existence through it as a people. Populations don't suddenly pop up into existence. But to straighten it out without confusion, we are not a people like the Polish that became a people from the Roman Catholic religious shift. Those people distinguished themselves because of it, unlike us, who were already a coherent, distinguished people that became Muslim and ever since moved away from some previous collective traditional identities and beliefs that tied into the perception of being. Islam was introduced to the people.

Our ethnogenesis is diachronic -- Somalis were already a coherent population before Islam, and Islam, rather than creating us, consolidated and redefined a new identity that shaped another part of our history that we largely draw upon and descend from. So, like this Islamic period of our history is what we are and mostly draw upon, but we were a people, although in many ways very different, before Islam. People change through time. Similar to you, I reject people who say "Somali" and Islam are two separate thing, and that our identity is secular with Islam being an extension of what people choose to believe. That is nonsense. Much of Somali identity itself is nested from Islamic values and history so much that if you think in the nationalist or secular ethnic identity, you're more so innovating something new than distilling Islam from Somali identity. That is why often people who leave Islam struggle not just with spiritual issues but their sense of identity is uprooted. That is why they attempt to shift the definition and create new grounds like the Western world so people like them can redefine what is a Somali so they feel included, now having effectively rejected the core part of the collective values.

I remember one fellow who I am sure meant well said, Islam and Somali are two different things. I mean, correct. One is ethnicity, and one is deen. But what a Somali is cannot be defined much without Islam. So what it means to be Somali has Somali at its core. There is a reason why ethnographers and anthropologists first figure out the belief systems of people, since that pretty much defines the core of who those people are, it influences their lifestyle, social behavior, all their values, the way they conduct themselves as a collective unit, gender relations, gender roles, hierarchies, etc., etc. So yes, Islam and Somali are not interchangeable, obviously. But you cannot know the Somali without knowing about their belief system, that is, Islam.

This is the balanced and true position. Saying we did not exist is quite ridiculous, and for those who try to reduce how our ethnic definition is going to place Islam central to it are also very wrong. I know you mean well, but it goes way too far.

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[Apostle]

Islam came to Somalis syncretically via trade. As a result, a large part of our pre-Islamic culture remained. You'll see this quite apparent in my post that's pending soon but you don't even need that... look at something as simple as the attire; it was near identical to how Habeshas, Bejas and Afars and Nubians/Sudani-Arabs dressed to a point that even foreigners like Burton noticed and wrote about it.

Then loads of customs like a belief in trials by fire, sacred trees, in divining the future via studying entrails, and countless customs I touch upon in the post (no spoilers) that appear to come from back in Bronze-Age Nubia that you have also highlighted like the head-feathers. Frankly, especially in the rural parts, most of Somali culture was still pre-Islamic by the 1800s. They probably just did away with the most egregiously un-Islamic elements like obviously believing in and praying to any deity other than Allah.

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