It's Precisely For Antics Like This Is How The Mongols Destroyed Baghdad And They Lost Spain.......

[Angelina]

Pastoralism is the most developed and liberating lifestyle, but nomads are definitely brutish people

City dwellers with no livestock are akin to hunter and gathers

Civilization cannot be produced via pastoralists. People simply cannot progress, whether it be medicine, technology and arts. All of that requires the ability to ‘produce’.

What is developed about having to rely on plunder and lack of production?

 

[ZBR]

If you actually read his book in entirety you’ll see that in context he also enumerates the superiority of pastoralists and Arabs over all others

 

[ZBR]

Civilization cannot be produced via pastoralists. People simply cannot progress, whether it be medicine, technology and arts. All of that requires the ability to ‘produce’.

What is developed about having to rely on plunder and lack of production?

Pastoralists means your livelihood is derived from livestock, you can be a sedentary nomad. Also there are nomadic pastoral civilizations like the Nabateans, one of the most advanced and complete societies of the ancient world

The British, Dutch, and Romans were pastoralists

Pastoralists are generally the ruling elite in history

 

[ZBR]

Pastoralists who manage their resources well produce so much capital and value they can buy any labor they need

 

[Angelina]

Pastoralists means your livelihood is derived from livestock, you can be a sedentary nomad. Also there are nomadic pastoral civilizations like the Nabateans

The British, Dutch, and Romans were pastoralists

Pastoralists are generally the ruling elite in history

Lol, I was meant to write Nomadic pastoralists. Being nomadic doesn’t produce civilization and they do not value production.

Yes, European Pastoralists historically were the ruling elite as they owned lands and had the peasants/serfs to work the land. But once the industrial revolution began, the British aristocracy for example became poorer and they were overtaken by merchants. As of now, the richest men, the elites are the business class and it’s been that way for at least 200 years.

 

[ZBR]

Lol, I was meant to write Nomadic pastoralists.

Yes, European Pastoralists historically were the ruling elite as they owned lands and had the peasants/serfs to work the land. But once the industrial revolution began, the British aristocracy for example became poorer and they were overtaken my merchants.

The Dutch Mercantile Golden Age was funded by turning family dairy business into a well oiled machine, men and women in a family worked together to first have a huge export surplus to Europe by being its premier Dairy exporter . These dairy farmers become the ones with free time and wealth to presue trade, art and science

The British Imperialism and Industry were both funded by the sheep and wool industry, and the industrialists came from landed agropastoralists who had free time to learn and capital to spend

 

[ZBR]

One of the main reasons Somalia is “poor” is our livestock export industry is still primitive and based on meat and not dairy which is blessed

1 -2 week of milk might have more protein than the whole animal, the potential market value for that milk fat outstrips it’s cost of production

 

[ZBR]

Alhamdulilah our parents left us with a good inheritance and we should take advantage of it

Also dairy exports especially of small ruminants are a luxury product, a staple for wealthy consumers especially elites in urban markets that has relatively small production with growing demand

This is like inheriting a golden goose, yaa ka faa'iidaysan doona

 

[Angelina]

The Dutch Mercantile Golden Age was funded by turning family dairy business into a well oiled machine, men and women in a family worked together to first have a huge export surplus to Europe by being its premier Dairy exporter . These dairy farmers become the ones with free time and wealth to presue trade, art and science

I’m talking about Nomadic pastoralists which is very different to sedentary pastoralism. Moving about creates chaos through constant competition with your neighbors which creates a need to plunder and overall savagery. Nomads do not have time for higher order thinking and dabbling in trade, art and science. Very different to that of Pastoral Brits and other Europeans.

The British Imperialism and Industry were both funded by the sheep and wool industry, and the industrialists came from landed agropastoralists who had free time to learn and capital to spend

The poor laborers in the mines and sooty factories were disenfranchised agrarian

That doesn’t change that fact that the economy went from mostly being based on pastoralism to that of industry. It is industry that produced technology, medicine ect and hence the greatest shift of the development of mankind. You’re delusional if you think you’d have all of the technology that you have if it wasn’t for the industrial revolution.

Look around you, from the very phone phone/laptop your typing from to the scientific breath-through that we take for granted was produced via industry.

 

[ZBR]

Also the beauty of the dairy enterprise is the independence it inspires and promotion of egalitarianism much greater than you’d find even being a CEO or Doctor in a city in the Qurbo and the protection it gives to our kids from exploitation as labor or getting sullied by other people is unparalleled

Every family and clan can get independently wealthy all according to how much they strive and manage their business, there’s no need for a under class and we aren’t competing on redistribution from a limited resource like oil

 

[ZBR]

Also the average miyi person would much rather sell milk than his livestock, they understand this. There’s nothing they dislike more than “xoolo ina la biryo” it’s seen as wastefulness and a curse but they’re restrained and unable because they need technical help , be that relief

 

[Juliet]

Sis, she’s got a point. If we ever want to progress we need to let go of our nomadic mentality. It’s why we’re lazy. See little value in production, despise the midgans as we’ve placed little value in their craft and believe we can take at will. Arrogance has led us to have an aversion to working with our hands to such an extent that grown able-bodied men would rather seek remittance from others than work in building site or factory. Everyman believes he’s the leader and Ibn Khaldun noted with the Bedouin Arabs who have the same Nomadic infliction ‘Scarcely a one of them would cede his power to another’, which is precisely one of the reasons why we have issues and no current civilization to speak of. To simply put it, we hardly produce anything, don’t respect or listen to our leaders and therefore engage in petty fights amongst ourselves to lead, devalue those that actually produce and have actual crafts, have a history of plundering our neighbors (qabil wars) and the list goes on.

We are precisely the people Ibn Khaldun described and that is due to our Nomadic/Bedouin roots which produces a type of anarchy that is the antithesis of civilization.

I just disagreed with the point where "we bring chaos wherever we go"

just self hating nonsense

 

[Garaad diinle]

Nomadic people were very capable people who at times ruled vast track of land. They did so with
their military might honed through time. They had domesticated the horse came up with trousers
and stirrups. They were unbeating in their skills of archary and with it many empire got devastated despite their strong high wall or any other defences they had. Empires such as the chinese, the romans and the islamic empire.

The islamic empire it self started as a nomadic empire so did the achaemenid and the qing of china. The mongols ruled the largest continuous track of land in asia which were the equivalent to ruling china, russia, central asia and mesopotamia.

 

[Garaad diinle]

Nomads in asia could read and write and they were traders who controled the trade routes. They were producing myriad of things from stuff such as clay, grass, wood, metals and wool. Sythians were for example prolific smith who created beutiful art from gold.

The göktürks were blacksmith that with their knowledge of metallurgy created the göktürks empire. These nomads has their history and foundation in oral stories but also in writing. These nomads enjoyed all sort of luxury such as silk, porcelain, spices, prefumes, glassware, jade, paper gold and silvers.

 

[Garaad diinle]

In terms of medicen i'll just leave this example of somali nomads here.

P.S. In my family there were some born before the age of penicillin who up into the 21th century were practicing blood letting. Wallahi when i saw it i was confused and didn't get an explanation until i was of age.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/somali-yibir-performed-brain-surgery-during-the-late-1800s.138723/

 

[Basra]

Their extravagance. They're actually gonna give this near 40 year old almost 200M a year:

STOP the jealousy @Arma

 

[mrlog]

Sis, she’s got a point. If we ever want to progress we need to let go of our nomadic mentality. It’s why we’re lazy. See little value in production, despise the midgans as we’ve placed little value in their craft and believe we can take at will. Arrogance has led us to have an aversion to working with our hands to such an extent that grown able-bodied men would rather seek remittance from others than work in building site or factory. Everyman believes he’s the leader and Ibn Khaldun noted with the Bedouin Arabs who have the same Nomadic infliction ‘Scarcely a one of them would cede his power to another’, which is precisely one of the reasons why we have issues and no current civilization to speak of. To simply put it, we hardly produce anything, don’t respect or listen to our leaders and therefore engage in petty fights amongst ourselves to lead, devalue those that actually produce and have actual crafts, have a history of plundering our neighbors (qabil wars) and the list goes on.

We are precisely the people Ibn Khaldun described and that is due to our Nomadic/Bedouin roots which produces a type of anarchy that is the antithesis of civilization.

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[DubatDiaries]

Sis, she’s got a point. If we ever want to progress we need to let go of our nomadic mentality. It’s why we’re lazy. See little value in production, despise the midgans as we’ve placed little value in their craft and believe we can take at will. Arrogance has led us to have an aversion to working with our hands to such an extent that grown able-bodied men would rather seek remittance from others than work in building site or factory. Everyman believes he’s the leader and Ibn Khaldun noted with the Bedouin Arabs who have the same Nomadic infliction ‘Scarcely a one of them would cede his power to another’, which is precisely one of the reasons why we have issues and no current civilization to speak of. To simply put it, we hardly produce anything, don’t respect or listen to our leaders and therefore engage in petty fights amongst ourselves to lead, devalue those that actually produce and have actual crafts, have a history of plundering our neighbors (qabil wars) and the list goes on.

We are precisely the people Ibn Khaldun described and that is due to our Nomadic/Bedouin roots which produces a type of anarchy that is the antithesis of civilization.

Thank you for putting it in better words abaayo. My sentencing was harsh

 

[DubatDiaries]

I just disagreed with the point where "we bring chaos wherever we go"

just self hating nonsense

We don't bring chaos everywhere, thats not the point I was trying to make. What I meant was the attitudes, politics, and way of life of pastoralism is not ideal (or supportive) for a settled industrial society. It will inevitably become a cause of tension unless addressed. This is not the fault of the Somali people. We had a messy, unnatural transition to a post- nomadic lifestyle (still ongoing) that was interrupted by a civil war. I think Somalis are more than capable as a people.

I promise ya'll I'm not a self hater

 

[altrae]

When Genghis Khan took over the city of Samarkhand (one of the most wealthiest cities in the Islamic world and Imam Bukhari's hometown) he said that it was because of their extreme decadence, that Allah had sent him as a form of punishment. Which if you deep it, it absolutely right. It was similar decadence and infighting that Arabs also lost Spain and Portugal.

No football club in Europe wants to touch Ronaldo with a stick. Not even the lower tier league teams....Yet, these naago Arabs are throwing 1.2billion at him.

Ibn Khaldun was absolutely bang on with this analysis of the Arab nature. Go read up what he had to say about them 700 years ago. Spot on.

The Mongols are usually critized for their ruthless warfare strategies. Strategies that often resulted in the annihilation of entire city's. Although... There's no doubt they were still tactically brilliant on the battlefield.