isreal and Palestine conflict

[The alchemist]

Why deny the inevitable?

 

[Life]

I use to be pro-Palestine back in the days and now I'm more neutral. For me, it's not a Muslim VS Jews thing more of an Arabs VS Jews thing. They are only trying to give it a religious flavour so all Muslim are on their side (and they still lost). They would never do that for us, for the problem we face or for our land. When our land was taken, did these people help us? No, they were in fact against us. It's simply a dirty game of politics. The Arabs use Islam whenever it suits them but could care less of the plight of non-Arab Muslim. Somalis should focus on Somalia.

Realistically speaking it doesn't look like Palestine will ever exist anymore. No matter what the Arab world does, the Jews will be backed by the west. Their hate for Muslims is greater than the one they have for Israel/jews.

And another thing I thought of, doesn't the Quran state that the land was given FIRSTLY to the jews anyway. I am not arguing about whether modern day Jews are the original jews or not. But to say that Jews have no substantial claim to the land is wrong. And also doesn't the following verse indicate that the Jews were in the holy land before the Palestinians.

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Moses said to his people, "O my people, remember the favor of Allah [God] upon you when He appointed among you prophets and made you possessors and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds. O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back and [thus] become losers." — Quran, Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:20-21.

Obviously, Moses existed before Mohammad (saw). And Muslim is the title given by Allah to his followers thru the prophet. If God gave the Jews the land first and keep in mind in the verse it clearly states "and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds." meaning God had never given that particular land to anyone else before, which indicate to me that the jews must have been the first ones there. And therefore what @CaliSomali was saying about the jews being there first and the Palestinians being immigrants is not entirely incorrect. Pay in mind the area they call the Levant or as the Arabs call it ash-sham is quite large and encompass not only Palestine but also parts of other modern countries as well. The Palestinian could have migrated from any of these other places after the jews where expelled.

 

[The alchemist]

I use to be pro-Palestine back in the days and now I'm more neutral. For me, it's not a Muslim VS Jews thing more of an Arabs VS Jews thing. They are only trying to give it a religious flavour so all Muslim are on their side (and they still lost). They would never do that for us, for the problem we face or for our land. When our land was taken, did these people help us? No, they were in fact against us. It's simply a dirty game of politics. The Arabs use Islam whenever it suits them but could care less of the plight of non-Arab Muslim. Somalis should focus on Somalia.

Realistically speaking it doesn't look like Palestine will ever exist anymore. No matter what the Arab world does, the Jews will be backed by the west. Their hate for Muslims is greater than the one they have for Israel/jews.

And another thing I thought of, doesn't the Quran state that the land was given FIRSTLY to the jews anyway. I am not arguing about whether modern day Jews are the original jews or not. But to say that Jews have no substantial claim to the land is wrong. And also doesn't the following verse indicate that the Jews were in the holy land before the Palestinians.

And [mention, O Muhammad], when Moses said to his people, "O my people, remember the favor of Allah [God] upon you when He appointed among you prophets and made you possessors and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds. O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back and [thus] become losers." — Quran, Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:20-21.

Obviously, Moses existed before Mohammad (saw). And Muslim is the title given by Allah to his followers thru the prophet. If God gave the Jews the land first and keep in mind in the verse it clearly states "and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds." meaning God had never given that particular land to anyone else before, which indicate to me that the jews must have been the first ones there. And therefore what @CaliSomali was saying about the jews being there first and the Palestinians being immigrants is not entirely incorrect. Pay in mind the area they call the Levant or as the Arabs call it ash-sham is quite large and encompass not only Palestine but also parts of other modern countries as well. The Palestinian could have migrated from any of these other places after the jews where expelled.

Just because God gave land to the Jews does not mean that people didn't live there before. You will find archeological excavations of people much more ancient than both Arabs and Jews.

 

[Life]

God giving lands? Just because God gave land to the Jews does not mean that people didn't live there before. You will find archeological excavations of people much more ancient than both Arabs and Jews.

ACCORDING TO QURAN !!!


And [mention, O Muhammad], when Moses said to his people, "O my people, remember the favour of Allah [God] upon you when He appointed among you prophets and made you possessors and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds. O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back and [thus] become losers." — Quran, Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:20-21.

The bolded part in the verse indicates that God gave the Jews land which he had never given anyone amongst the world.

This was in response to those who claimed that Jews had no real reason to claim the land and that Palestinian/ Arabs were there before them.

The conflict about the land is between Palestinian and jews. the archeologic finds you are talking about that predates both the Arabs and the Jews don't mean anything in an argument on who was in the land first between the Arabs and the jews?

 

[government]

Guys, Jews are pretty much hated everywhere, even in tolerant North America/Western Europe you still have rampant conspiracy theories about them and people lowkey distrust them. They need their own homeland. They can't continue living as landless gipsies who are hated everywhere either.

Difficult situation.

Have you seen Congress is trying to pass a bill which will make it illegal to boycott isreal

 

[The alchemist]

ACCORDING TO QURAN !!!


And [mention, O Muhammad], when Moses said to his people, "O my people, remember the favour of Allah [God] upon you when He appointed among you prophets and made you possessors and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds. O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back and [thus] become losers." — Quran, Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:20-21.

The bolded part in the verse indicates that God gave the Jews land which he had never given anyone amongst the world.

This was in response to those who claimed that Jews had no real reason to claim the land and that Palestinian/ Arabs were there before them.

The conflict about the land is between Palestinian and jews. the archeologic finds you are talking about that predates both the Arabs and the Jews don't mean anything in an argument on who was in the land first between the Arabs and the jews?

The Negev Bedouins are direct descendants of the Natufians. It means that these people have lived there since the start.

Palestinians are Arabized Levantines, they are not real Arabs.

"According to a study published in June 2017 by Ranajit Das, Paul Wexler, Mehdi Pirooznia, and Eran Elhaik in Frontiers in Genetics, "in a principle component analysis (PCA) [of DNA], the ancient Levantines clustered predominantly with modern-day Palestinians and Bedouins..."[162] Additionally, in a study published in August of the same year by Marc Haber et al. in The American Journal of Human Genetics, the authors concluded that "The overlap between the Bronze Age and present-day Levantines suggests a degree of genetic continuity in the region.""

 

[YourBroMoe]

The Canaanites were made up of several different Semitic ethnic groups (ancestors of modern-day Levant Arabs and Jews) before they branched off. Using that argument is like saying the Afar have rights to lands within modern day Somalia since we branched off from them around 3,000 years ago.

The Jews lived and emerged as an ethnic group in modern-day Israel/Palestine. These Arabs that you see calling themselves "Palestinians" are in fact nomadic Bedouins that moved in after the Jews were expelled from Palestine.

My point is that many people lived in that land region, so using the claim of a book is illogical. Also, most modern Jews have a lot of European admixture. They ain't even Jewish enough imo.

 

[Life]

The Negev Bedouins are direct descendants of the Natufians. It means that these people have lived there since the start.

Palestinians are Arabized Levantines, they are not real Arabs.

"According to a study published in June 2017 by Ranajit Das, Paul Wexler, Mehdi Pirooznia, and Eran Elhaik in Frontiers in Genetics, "in a principle component analysis (PCA) [of DNA], the ancient Levantines clustered predominantly with modern-day Palestinians and Bedouins..."[162] Additionally, in a study published in August of the same year by Marc Haber et al. in The American Journal of Human Genetics, the authors concluded that "The overlap between the Bronze Age and present-day Levantines suggests a degree of genetic continuity in the region.""

I know that Palestinians are not ethnic Arabs but levants. The study you quoted shows that Palestinians are closer to Europeans then middle eastern. The Negev bedouins are apparently nomadic Arabs who migrated,


The Negev Bedouin (Arabic: بدو النقب‎, Badū an-Naqab; Hebrew: הבדואים בנגב‬, HaBedu'im BaNegev) are traditionally pastoral nomadicArab tribes (Bedouin) living in the Negev region of Israel. The Bedouin tribes adhere to Islam.[4]

Antiquity[edit]

Traditional Bedouin camel race in the northern Negev near Arad, Israel
Historically, the Bedouin engaged in nomadic herding, agriculture and sometimes fishing. They also earned income by transporting goods and people[17]across the desert.[18] Scarcity of water and of permanent pastoral land required them to move constantly. The first recorded nomadic settlement in Sinai dates back 4,000-7,000 years.[18] The Bedouin of the Sinai peninsula migrated to and from the Negev.[19]

Most of the Negev Bedouin tribes migrated to the Negev from the Arabian Desert, Transjordan, Egypt, and the Sinai from the 18th century onwards.[23][24]


As I mentioned in my first post, the area referred to as the Levant is more than just Palestine:

And also, I have seen some studies done claiming that Jews are genetically linked to the Levant. I mean they must have been, coming from the same region.

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese
Date:
May 9, 2000
Source:
New York University Medical Center And School Of Medicine
Summary:
If a common heritage conferred peace, then perhaps the long history of conflict in the Middle East would have been resolved years ago. For, according to a new scientific study, Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, and they all share a common genetic lineage that stretches back thousands of years.

If a common heritage conferred peace, then perhaps the long history of conflict in the Middle East would have been resolved years ago. For, according to a new scientific study, Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, and they all share a common genetic lineage that stretches back thousands of years.

"Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham," says Harry Ostrer, M.D., Director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, an author of the new study by an international team of researchers in the United States, Europe, and Israel. "And all have preserved their Middle Eastern genetic roots over 4,000 years," he says.

The researchers analyzed the Y chromosome, which is usually passed unchanged from father to son, of more than 1,000 men worldwide. Throughout human history, alterations have occurred in the sequence of chemical bases that make up the DNA in this so-called male chromosome, leaving variations that can be pinpointed with modern genetic techniques. Related populations carry the same specific variations. In this way, scientists can track descendants of large populations and determine their common ancestors.

Specific regions of the Y chromosome were analyzed in 1,371 men from 29 worldwide populations, including Jews and non-Jews from the Middle East, North Africa, sub-Saharan Africa, and Europe.

The study, published in the May 9 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with non-Jews from the Middle East, including Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, and these signatures diverged significantly from non-Jewish men outside of this region. Consequently, Jews and Arabs share a common ancestor and are more closely related to one another than to non-Jews from other areas of the world.

The study also revealed that despite the complex history of Jewish migration in the Diaspora (the time since 556 B.C. when Jews migrated out of Palestine), Jewish communities have generally not intermixed with non-Jewish populations. If they had, then Jewish men from different regions of the world would not share the same genetic signatures in their Y chromosome.

"Because ancient Jewish law states that Jewish religious affiliation is assigned maternally, our study afforded the opportunity to assess the contribution of non-Jewish men to present-day Jewish genetic diversity," says Michael Hammer, Ph.D., from the University of Arizona, Tucson, who is the lead author of the new study. "It was surprising to see how significant the Middle Eastern genetic signal was in Jewish men from different communities in the Diaspora," he says.





The authors of this study are: Dr. Ostrer from NYU School of Medicine; Michael F. Hammer, Alan J. Redd, Elizabeth T. Wood, M. Roxane Bonner, Hamdi Jarjanazil, and Tanya Karafet from the University of Arizona, Tucson; Silvana Santachlara-Benerecetti, University of Pavia, Italy; Ariella Oppenheim, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel; Mark A. Jobling, University of Leicester, England; Trefor Jenkins, University of Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, South Africa; and Batsheva Bonne-Tamar, Tel Aviv University, Israel.

Story Source:

Materials provided by New York University Medical Center And School Of Medicine. Note: Content may be edited for style and length.

I am not arguing about Levants not being native to that region nor do I believe that they are Arabs. I believe that the Jews are genetically linked with other levants. I also recognize that the Levant is more than just Palestine. I am not well versed in genetic studies however I believe that a lot of semetic ethnic-groups can claim native to that region but to different areas

 

[The alchemist]

I know that Palestinians are not ethnic Arabs but levants. The study you quoted shows that Palestinians are closer to Europeans then middle eastern. The Negev bedouins are apparently nomadic Arabs who migrated,


The Negev Bedouin (Arabic: بدو النقب‎, Badū an-Naqab; Hebrew: הבדואים בנגב‬, HaBedu'im BaNegev) are traditionally pastoral nomadicArab tribes (Bedouin) living in the Negev region of Israel. The Bedouin tribes adhere to Islam.[4]

Antiquity[edit]

Traditional Bedouin camel race in the northern Negev near Arad, Israel
Historically, the Bedouin engaged in nomadic herding, agriculture and sometimes fishing. They also earned income by transporting goods and people[17]across the desert.[18] Scarcity of water and of permanent pastoral land required them to move constantly. The first recorded nomadic settlement in Sinai dates back 4,000-7,000 years.[18] The Bedouin of the Sinai peninsula migrated to and from the Negev.[19]

Most of the Negev Bedouin tribes migrated to the Negev from the Arabian Desert, Transjordan, Egypt, and the Sinai from the 18th century onwards.[23][24]


As I mentioned in my first post, the area referred to as the Levant is more than just Palestine:

And also, I have seen some studies done claiming that Jews are genetically linked to the Levant. I mean they must have been, coming from the same region.

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese
Date:
May 9, 2000
Source:
New York University Medical Center And School Of Medicine
Summary:
If a common heritage conferred peace, then perhaps the long history of conflict in the Middle East would have been resolved years ago. For, according to a new scientific study, Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, and they all share a common genetic lineage that stretches back thousands of years.



I am not arguing about Levants not being native to that region nor do I believe that they are Arabs. I believe that the Jews are genetically linked with other levants. I also recognize that the Levant is more than just Palestine. I am not well versed in genetic studies however I believe that a lot of semetic ethnic-groups can claim native to that region but to different areas

Bedouins from Israel's Negev desert are the closest to the extinct Natufians.

I don't know much about the Negev Bedouins but figured @Apollo did.

 

[CaliSomali]

You dumb fool. Palestinians are not migrants from the Arabian Peninsula, but ancient Levantines who have always lived there and were culturally Arabized post Islam. I mean you do realise how fucking stupid you are right? The majority of Palestinian land is rich agricultural farmland, the majority of Palestinians are farmers. If they were Arabian nomadic migrants, then who taught them how to farm the land? And what happened to the original sedentary population? The only nomads in Palestine are the Negev Bedouins, and they’re 100 % native to Israel. They’re the closest modern day population to the Natufians, whose culture dates back 14,000 years ago.

If you hate Islam, just say so. Hiding behind faux Arab hating nationalism however, is just sad.

These Levantine Arabs are so native to the land that they’re finding so many Jewish artifacts all over Palestine.

 

[government]

These Levantine Arabs are so native to the land that they’re finding so many Jewish artifacts all over Palestine.

What Jewish propaganda do you listen too levantine arabs are more native to the land than ashkenazi Jews