Islamcentric vs Afrocentric

Which is more suitable for Somalis?

  • Islamcentric

    Votes: 6 75.0%
  • Afrocentric

    Votes: 2 25.0%

  • Total voters
    8
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African+hijab.jpg

vs
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You do realize somali women culturally covered their hair, its not specifically linked to islam.

So its very invalid. People have a choice as well.

Firstly what is Afrocentrism to you? this an american cultural ideology and world view so how does that fit into the picture?
We are not African Americans!!

Are you saying Culture vs islam? hence religion vs culture?

how can you compare to things that are not the same?

Religion is a belief in a supreme being.
Culture is the behaviour of people according to their different traditions.
Many folks mistake cultural laws for religious.

Learn to differentiate this.
 
You do realize somali women culturally covered their hair, its not specifically linked to islam.

So its very invalid. People have a choice as well.

Firstly what is Afrocentrism to you? this an american cultural ideology and world view so how does that fit into the picture?
We are not African Americans!!

Are you saying Culture vs islam? hence religion vs culture?

how can you compare to things that are not the same?

Religion is a belief in a supreme being.
Culture is the behaviour of people according to their different traditions.
Many folks mistake cultural laws for religious.

Learn to differentiate this.
Here, we're in a different medium. We have a generation that's growing and undergoing a cultural and ideological transformation. A generation that doesn't live within its traditional community, and comes to identify with the local prevailing culture(s). The one they mostly identify with is Afrocentrism, due to obvious reasons. They are growing in number 'cause they make up the bulk of the second generation.
 
Here, we're in a different medium. We have a generation that's growing and undergoing a cultural and ideological transformation. A generation that doesn't live within its traditional community, and comes to identify with the local prevailing culture(s). The one they mostly identify with is Afrocentrism, due to obvious reasons. They are growing in number 'cause they make up the bulk of the second generation.

You cannot redefine culture or transform it. Culture is fixed. Afrocentrism is an African American ideology and world view.
it is incomparable.
 

Duchess

HRH Duchess of Puntland, The Viscount of Garoowe
VIP
You do realize somali women culturally covered their hair, its not specifically linked to islam.

So its very invalid. People have a choice as well.

Firstly what is Afrocentrism to you? this an american cultural ideology and world view so how does that fit into the picture?
We are not African Americans!!

Are you saying Culture vs islam? hence religion vs culture?

how can you compare to things that are not the same?

Religion is a belief in a supreme being.
Culture is the behaviour of people according to their different traditions.
Many folks mistake cultural laws for religious.

Learn to differentiate this.

Correction: Somali women covered their hair after marriage.

dress1.png


dress2.png


so this entire topic is pointless.:umwhat:
 
Correction: Somali women covered their hair after marriage.

View attachment 78

View attachment 80

so this entire topic is pointless.:umwhat:


Nope. my point still stands

__KQkK2ssJuaeEiMQ0qianxW-QCI74jhUpqxGlZaR-w=w362-h569-no


During puberty before marriage they covered their hair and only pre pubesant little girls shaved their hair and not covered it.

293hchi.png


Read Cutlure and Costums of Somalia

My point still stands. Somali women both married and before marriage still covered their hair culturally.:camby:
 

Duchess

HRH Duchess of Puntland, The Viscount of Garoowe
VIP
Nope. my point still stands

__KQkK2ssJuaeEiMQ0qianxW-QCI74jhUpqxGlZaR-w=w362-h569-no


During puberty before marriage they covered their hair and only pre pubesant little girls shaved their hair and not covered it.

293hchi.png


Read Cutlure and Costums of Somalia

My point still stands. Somali women both married and before marriage still covered their hair culturally.:camby:

I don't want to continue this argument in two topics, but a minority of Somali women covered their hair prior marriage. If covering of hair before marriage were the norm, the 'Shaash Saar' would be pointless and would not exist.

Proof:

tumblr_mbqted99nz1qill6po1_1280.jpg

tumblr_mbqted99nz1qill6po4_1280.jpg


Unmarried women in coastal Sanaag ( 1846-48). Uncovered hair prior to marriage is well within our cultural customs. :childplease:
 
I don't want to continue this argument in two topics, but a minority of Somali women covered their hair prior marriage. If covering of hair before marriage were the norm, the 'Shaash Saar' would be pointless and would not exist.

Proof.

Unmarried women in coastal Sanaag ( 1846-48). Uncovered hair prior to marriage is well within our cultural customs. :childplease:


Proof for what? proof that some didnt cover their hair? Ok! :drakewtf:

The guy is arguing that somali women culturally dont cover their hair at all. hence why hair coverings is incompatible with his culture vs religion nonsense.

But somali girls in many areas during puberty covered their hair like i displayed and many married women also covered their culturally

tumblr_mofnxolJhj1qill6po2_400.jpg


9gxaut.jpg


2d6pfs9.jpg


they did cover their hair. so how is that women in the picture above he post un-somali for covering her head?
 

Duchess

HRH Duchess of Puntland, The Viscount of Garoowe
VIP
Proof for what? proof that some didnt cover their hair? Ok! :drakewtf:

The guy is arguing that somali women culturally dont cover their hair at all. hence why hair coverings is incompatible with his culture vs religion nonsense.

But somali girls in many areas during puberty covered their hair like i displayed and many married women also covered their culturally

tumblr_mofnxolJhj1qill6po2_400.jpg


9gxaut.jpg


2d6pfs9.jpg


they did cover their hair. so how is that women in the picture above he post un-somali for covering her head?

All the women you posted could have been married/ I'm not saying a woman covering her head is unSomali, I'm saying if it's a discussion of culture, it's well within our culture to see women with uncovered hair. It's not "afrocentric" for a woman to do so, it was the cultural norm until the culture underwent a transformation 25 years ago. Neither is it "unIslamic" for a woman to have her head uncovered. I would like to think our female ancestors were Muslim and that Islam for a woman amounts to more than a single piece of cloth of her head.:drakewtf:
 
All the women you posted could have been married/ I'm not saying a woman covering her head is unSomali, I'm saying if it's a discussion of culture, it's well within our culture to see women with uncovered hair. It's not "afrocentric" for a woman to do so, it was the cultural norm until the culture underwent a transformation 25 years ago. Neither is it "unIslamic" for a woman to have her head uncovered. I would like to think our female ancestors were Muslim and that Islam for a woman amounts to more than a single piece of cloth of her head.:drakewtf:

what dont you get?:mindblown:

What is this about them wearing it before or after marriage that makes my point invalid.

They still cover their hair culturally

So its his claim that its un somali to have your head covered is invalid. Since for ever reason although not mandotory never claimed not covering was not in our culture but they covered their hair.

That is the point i made from the start. So posting a women having her hair covered and then posting a women without hair covered.
Calling Religion vs culture is invalid.

thats my point.:comeon:
 

Duchess

HRH Duchess of Puntland, The Viscount of Garoowe
VIP
what dont you get?:mindblown:

What is this about them wearing it before or after marriage that makes my point invalid.

They still cover their hair culturally

So its his claim that its un somali to have your head covered is invalid. Since for ever reason although not mandotory never claimed not covering was not in our culture but they covered their hair.

That is the point i made from the start. So posting a women having her hair covered and then posting a women without hair covered.
Calling Religion vs culture is invalid.

thats my point.:comeon:

Let's say Somali didn't get infested by the Salafi Islamist revolution. Let's say that we were still in tune with our culture. If a Somali woman never got married and never covered her hair, would she being going against her culture? Would that make her afrocentric and anti-Islamic?

Arabman says we are going through a "cultural and ideological transformation" and that any Somali woman who has uncovered hair is identifying with afrocentrialism, but there was never any Somali cultural requirement for a woman to cover her head post-puberty. The agreed upon cultural requirement was post-marriage therefore they are not going through any transformation or choosing another culture over through own by having their heads uncovered. Even the examples of head dress you provided do not fall within the Islamic requirement of Hijab. Furthermore this topic is useless because 1) Islam is more than a head covering and 2) a woman can be a practicing Muslim without wearing a hijab.
 
Let's say Somali didn't get infested by the Salafi Islamist revolution. Let's say that we were still in tune with our culture. If a Somali woman never got married and never covered her hair, would she being going against her culture? Would that make her afrocentric and anti-Islamic?

Salafi has much to do with covering your hair? i dont think an ideology does but the religions of islam does.

Yup if she didnt cover her hair she would still be somalicentric but at the same time non islamic.

]Arabman says we are going through a "cultural and ideological transformation" and that any Somali woman who has uncovered hair is identifying with afrocentrialism, but there was never any Somali cultural requirement for a woman to cover her head post-puberty. The agreed upon cultural requirement was post-marriage therefore they are not going through any transformation or choosing another culture over through own by having their heads uncovered. Even the examples of head dress you provided do not fall within the Islamic requirement of Hijab. Furthermore this topic is useless because 1) Islam is more than a head covering and 2) a woman can be a practicing Muslim without wearing a hijab.

there was not mandotory att all. But still culturally practiced in some areas when in puberty according to the book Culture and Costumes of somalia.

like i stated above before you qouted me

in that sense culturally both are suitable and religiously only one is suitable.

A women has to follow what says in the quran which is to cover your hair.Its like me eating pork and claiming i am practicing muslim. doesnt work out.
 

Duchess

HRH Duchess of Puntland, The Viscount of Garoowe
VIP
Salafi has much to do with covering your hair? i dont think an ideology does but the religions of islam does.

Yup if she didnt cover her hair she would still be somalicentric but at the same time non islamic.



there was not mandotory att all. But still culturally practiced in some areas when in puberty according to the book Culture and Costumes of somalia.

like i stated above before you qouted me



A women has to follow what says in the quran which is to cover your hair.Its like me eating pork and claiming i am practicing muslim. doesnt work out.

The prevalence of Salafi Islam has a lot to do with how ( i.e. the style) a woman fulfills the obligation of Hijab. In Salafi Islam it's the burqa, and sometimes the niqab, that fulfills this obligation. According to them, the Somali cultural custom of guntiino and masar do not fulfill the requirement of hijab hence the cultural transformation Somalis have undergone in the last 25 years. Even most female nomads dress like this now:

Women-in-jilbab.jpg


If someone fulfills the 5 pillars than they are practicing Muslims. Pork is an impurity and eating it without cleansing yourself properly gets in the way of your prayer so you're comparing apples and oranges sxb.
 
Got it, can somoene inform me on basis of salafism?

Im not so familiar with islam ideologies.

Which is why i dont often participate in discussions sorounding topics.

Salafism is litteral extreme practice of islam and by some looked as wahabism.

90% of Somalis were sufis before the war
How is sufism and salafism ideologically different and in practice ?

Many try to claim They are the same.
 
I

IntensiveCareUnit

Guest
i hate the term afrocentric, it's used by cadaan people who want to downplay the legitimacy of black academia and scholarly work. f*ck these categories.

as for the thread question, why do you have to choose one? "islamocentric" suits everyone, though.
 
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