Is PL a copycat of SL?

[Raadsadde]

Puntland’s constitution, written before any elections in Somaliland, tells the president to hold local and statewide elections as quickly as possible.

I'm quite interested in this point. I assume that Puntland's constitution was written before 2002, since you note that it was written before Somaliland's first elections. I am also assuming you are referring to popular elections, since Somaliland has the kind of elections Puntland holds, since 1997.

If Puntland's constitution was written nearly 20 years ago, why is it that none of the elections it demands have been held where the people can vote? Puntland doesn't quite have the security problems that the rest of Somalia does. This makes me wonder, as an outside who doesn't know a ton about interal Puntland politics, why those elections haven't taken place for so long.

 

[Gadhwayne]

Puntland is doing things that every states does. Creating a regional flag, a regional security force, adopting a state constitution, holding elections etc... are things every modern state is expected to do. Anyone who thinks they are exclusive to Somaliland is a retard. Somaliland simply started to build a modern state earlier than Puntland did. Puntland’s constitution, written before any elections in Somaliland, tells the president to hold local and statewide elections as quickly as possible.

Puntland is very different from Somaliland. It has a unicameral parliament without clan elders. It has never claimed to be an independent country, it is less centralized, its governors have real power in their regions, and many other such differences in political structure.

Indeed NEVER claimed independence but acts totally independent of FGS

 

[Molotoff]

They are both ramshackle pseudo states. There is really no rational need to divide somali lands on the grounds of tribal belonging because Somalis as a people are too homogenous.

A Somalia divided cannot stand against itself.

 

[Cartman]

That’s like saying Canes copied Chick Fil A because they both make chicken

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

I'm quite interested in this point. I assume that Puntland's constitution was written before 2002, since you note that it was written before Somaliland's first elections. I am also assuming you are referring to popular elections, since Somaliland has the kind of elections Puntland holds, since 1997.

If Puntland's constitution was written nearly 20 years ago, why is it that none of the elections it demands have been held where the people can vote? Puntland doesn't quite have the security problems that the rest of Somalia does. This makes me wonder, as an outside who doesn't know a ton about interal Puntland politics, why those elections haven't taken place for so long.

Puntland’s political elite have just been too lazy to hold elections. It is literally that simple. No president before Deni has prioritized the holding of elections. Gaas and Faroole both wanted to hold elections but they had not done the heavy lifting necessary to build confidence and technical expertise. No one in Puntland is against elections, the politicians are just lazy.

 

[Raadsadde]

There is really no rational need to divide somali lands on the grounds of tribal belonging because Somalis as a people are too homogenous.

Totally disagree with the bolded.

We are not as homogenous as some make it out to be.

I was in Somaliland when the wars between the Isaaq's were happening. I was a kid but I remember so many of the scenes vividly. Soldiers of the enemy clan at that point, would often roll through our ramshackle village and would stop to look for any of our soldiers hiding amongst us. When they found it was only impoverished women and children, they would often leave some of the food and water they had stolen from the big cities, often referring to my grandmother as "hooyo" and mother as walallo, referring to them as their own family. This demonstrates they recognised our kinship even at a time of war. They would never dream of laying a finger on any unarmed civilian.

On the opposite side there is no need to document the atrocities committed against man, women, elderly and children alike in Somaliland. These war crimes were committed by the people you claim are "homogenous". No-one that really thought Somalis are a homogenous one big family would commit the barbarian acts they did on civilians in the north. The only way people do that is when they see their victim as an "other", or to use the words of Morgan "Gurmis", garbage or filth in English. N

Note I am not claiming that the above only happened in the north, and is evidence that there the lack of homogeny is between North and South only. Atrocities were committed in all parts of the former Somali republic. I would point to the fact though, that are almost always committed by one large tribe vs another i.e. Hawiye vs Darood, Darood vs Dir/D&G etc. and almost never within tribes themselves. That should tell you something about how homogenous Somalis at large are.

Furthermore, as much as many might claim, Somaliland's independence has never been based on tribal belonging. If you can provide one iota of evidence where anyone in Somaliland claimed or argued that, I'll stand corrected.

Somalia is it was before the 90's will never be again. The only question, in how many more parts will into before it becomes manageable.

 

[Raadsadde]

Puntland’s political elite have just been too lazy to hold elections. It is literally that simple. No president before Deni has prioritized the holding of elections. Gaas and Faroole both wanted to hold elections but they had not done the heavy lifting necessary to build confidence and technical expertise. No one in Puntland is against elections, the politicians are just lazy.

Interesting. I'm surprised the general public hasn't been in a bigger uproar on a fundamental principle their constitution constitution promises, but their unelected politician will not deliver.

 

[Yusuf M]

Even the name “Puntland” comes from a ancient voyage made to Saylac (a city in SL). PL looks up and admires SL and wants to be like them so bad. It’s safe to say that PL is the daughter of SL.

View attachment 166348

Wow, I didn't know reer Khatland invented the flag, Constitution, and multi party election. Thanks for the info. I think I learned something new today.

 

[convincation]

Totally disagree with the bolded.

We are not as homogenous as some make it out to be.

I was in Somaliland when the wars between the Isaaq's were happening. I was a kid but I remember so many of the scenes vividly. Soldiers of the enemy clan at that point, would often roll through our ramshackle village and would stop to look for any of our soldiers hiding amongst us. When they found it was only impoverished women and children, they would often leave some of the food and water they had stolen from the big cities, often referring to my grandmother as "hooyo" and mother as walallo, referring to them as their own family. This demonstrates they recognised our kinship even at a time of war. They would never dream of laying a finger on any unarmed civilian.

On the opposite side there is no need to document the atrocities committed against man, women, elderly and children alike in Somaliland. These war crimes were committed by the people you claim are "homogenous". No-one that really thought Somalis are a homogenous one big family would commit the barbarian acts they did on civilians in the north. The only way people do that is when they see their victim as an "other", or to use the words of Morgan "Gurmis", garbage or filth in English. N

Note I am not claiming that the above only happened in the north, and is evidence that there the lack of homogeny is between North and South only. Atrocities were committed in all parts of the former Somali republic. I would point to the fact though, that are almost always committed by one large tribe vs another i.e. Hawiye vs Darood, Darood vs Dir/D&G etc. and almost never within tribes themselves. That should tell you something about how homogenous Somalis at large are.

Furthermore, as much as many might claim, Somaliland's independence has never been based on tribal belonging. If you can provide one iota of evidence where anyone in Somaliland claimed or argued that, I'll stand corrected.

Somalia is it was before the 90's will never be again. The only question, in how many more parts will into before it becomes manageable.

I’m so sorry for what you went for walaal, it’s completely understandable that you no longer believe in somalinimo after experiencing something like that, inshallah nothing of that callibar is ever seen again throughout all somali lands

 

[Raadsadde]

I’m so sorry for what you went for walaal, it’s completely understandable that you no longer believe in somalinimo after experiencing something like that, inshallah nothing of that callibar is ever seen again throughout all somali lands

Though I appreciate the sentiment and empathy, I think you may have slightly misunderstood or I might have done a poor job explaining. My family actually were quite lucky in not experience any serious hardships. We experience poverty, but then pretty much everyone in Somalia at the time did, and most experienced much worse.

My believe that we are not homogenous is based on the facts of what we've seen over the course of Somalia's history. I retold some of the experiences that demonstrate we are not as homogenous as we believe.

Somalinimo is not dead. The idea of a united Somali people in one country is.

 

[Yusuf M]

Yes, we copied this space faring civilization who invented system of governance to mankind.

Looks like a scene from a Hollywood zombie movie.

 

[GAZA]

Be civil, This isn't the tribal circle jerk section

 

[Username]

Totally disagree with the bolded.

We are not as homogenous as some make it out to be.

I was in Somaliland when the wars between the Isaaq's were happening. I was a kid but I remember so many of the scenes vividly. Soldiers of the enemy clan at that point, would often roll through our ramshackle village and would stop to look for any of our soldiers hiding amongst us. When they found it was only impoverished women and children, they would often leave some of the food and water they had stolen from the big cities, often referring to my grandmother as "hooyo" and mother as walallo, referring to them as their own family. This demonstrates they recognised our kinship even at a time of war. They would never dream of laying a finger on any unarmed civilian.

On the opposite side there is no need to document the atrocities committed against man, women, elderly and children alike in Somaliland. These war crimes were committed by the people you claim are "homogenous". No-one that really thought Somalis are a homogenous one big family would commit the barbarian acts they did on civilians in the north. The only way people do that is when they see their victim as an "other", or to use the words of Morgan "Gurmis", garbage or filth in English. N

Note I am not claiming that the above only happened in the north, and is evidence that there the lack of homogeny is between North and South only. Atrocities were committed in all parts of the former Somali republic. I would point to the fact though, that are almost always committed by one large tribe vs another i.e. Hawiye vs Darood, Darood vs Dir/D&G etc. and almost never within tribes themselves. That should tell you something about how homogenous Somalis at large are.

Furthermore, as much as many might claim, Somaliland's independence has never been based on tribal belonging. If you can provide one iota of evidence where anyone in Somaliland claimed or argued that, I'll stand corrected.

Somalia is it was before the 90's will never be again. The only question, in how many more parts will into before it becomes manageable.

Agreed 100%

The clan system is the reason Somalis are not homogeneous and the cause of most of our problems.

I also agree that Somalia has more of a chance of separating further than reunification.

 

[libaaxad]

yes they copy everything we do

 

[Dark Energy]

Beats being a fat pedophile any day of the week:

View attachment 166356

No, nothing beats Gunther and his Isaaq yin in Hargaysa.