Is Mathematics invented or discovered?

[TekNiKo]

Math exists independent of us. God literally created water before man. Water consists of H20. Before humans existed water existed so Math exists.

 

[KillStreakIsCool]

The curlicue on that 9 though lol

That was to ensure the number of angles 9 represented. Overtime, appearance of numbers changed because Arabic numerals became the world standard and the angles represented in the original style weren't necessary.

The man who introduced to these numerals to Europe used to be an Italian merchant who did business in North Africa. Back then Europe was using Roman numerals which was cumbersome. Europeans weren't too keen at first to ditch the roman numerals and it took decades for them to switch. Once the switch happened, science bloomed. The trader's name was Fibonacci.

 

[lilmoon]

I feel like if it was invented, then there would be many contradictions, but I feel like it could be both tbh.

 

[hinters]

The symbols we use to speak about math and calculate stuff is invented. But the underlying logic is true and always has been.

r = C/2π. Even if the symbols that represent numbers and operators are invented by humans, the simple fact that that the radius of a circle is equal to it's circumfrence over two pi is an inherently true fact discovered by humans.

 

[Nomadic lord]

Math, in my understanding, can be considered as a mix of invention and discovery. On one hand, it is a set of rules, systems and concepts that humans created to describe, understand and make predictions about the world around them. On the other hand, many mathematical principles, such as geometric shapes and patterns and numbers, seem to be a part of the natural world and can be observed independently of human thought. So, in a sense, math can be seen as something that humans discovered and then developed further through invention.

 

[Hamzarashid]

Mathematics was necessary for real human agriculturalists to calculate how many grains they had stored or what time of year some crops grow as well as at what times of year do floods and draught occur . Humans are logic-based creatures. They have excellent pattern recognition. If something were to happen frequently at a specific time, then they would've know how to prepare for it in the future. The act of keeping records was how writing was invented. I was actually reading this article of this paleolithic cave drawings it's highly debated whether those dots are an indication of the first ever recorded writing. https://interestingengineering.com/culture/20000-year-old-dots-written-language

Obviously has muslims we must have to understand that The Prophet Adam was given the knowledge of the names of everything its said Adam was more knowledgeable than the angels so this idea that early humans were no different than the depicted cave dwellers is wrong.

 

[whitehartlane]

The answer to this question is a combination of both. Mathematics is a device of thought that is both invented and discovered. Mathematical objects such as numbers, equations, and theorems are defined and constructed by humans, but the factual truths that they contain are discovered by humans through careful observation and exploration of the world we live in..

 

[The alchemist]

The answer to this question is a combination of both. Mathematics is a device of thought that is both invented and discovered. Mathematical objects such as numbers, equations, and theorems are defined and constructed by humans, but the factual truths that they contain are discovered by humans through careful observation and exploration of the world we live in..

You are correct, as was my point but I also added something extra. Goedels incompleteness theorem proved that math is not fully true, or there are limitations on what math can say is true or not true about the system itself. To say it simply, you can't formalize math as universal. What you can do is to bracket consistent forms of fragments that can make each unit of mathematical subject to be specifically workable; if you try to put it all in one landscape then the inconsistency shows. That's why I am saying math is a language to something we correlate that indirectly corresponds with something. Or something like that.

It's a complicated subject and it goes into the philosophical aspects of math, 2+2=4 will not solve this. Again, the fact that we think we can think we know how to correspond math with reality in the first place is tough. Furthermore we don't know if we know how to linguistically describe math other than base level stuff that can grow in complexity, rules, etc. It can be that we know math, yet really don't know math. No one here knows how everything is besides what The Creator has allowed us to process, and there are things, similar to how we don't have the intuition for 16 dimensions in our heads (only a mathematical intuition which is not the real deal, you can't see it), that are just out of bounds and maybe pointless for us to delve on.

Math works for practical measurers, and that is alright, I think.

 

[Testo 21]

1 equals everything

 

[King Khufu]

Realistically both.

One observance lead to experiment of another. It keeps building from there.
A piece of our brain has a innate nature for shapes, sizes, and counting a number to things.

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Math is used for:
(precision "eurika" instead of "oh this works")

 

[DR OSMAN]

I think maths is important in terms of measurement, without it, can u imagine the damage u would do with testing theories n data. Like energy u wud need to create some sort of measurement before it's applied or else it could lead to the system ur using it for to collapse. An example of that is food to human body, if u attempted to consume 100 plates in once, u will be dead, hence measurement is created depending on ur body capacity. Every system is identical in terms of input-processing-capacity-storage-output like the human body.

I think its the general rule for all natural n man made things.

 

[DR OSMAN]

The big concepts about number u need to know is not the calculations as that can be done very quickly once the underlying theory is established. But u need to understand zero is man made, their is no 'nothing' state not in this physical reality as everything converts to something else even your bodies don't disappear into some vacuum of nothing as it breaks-down into skeleton and eventual dust or if u speed it up it breaks down into ashes thru 'cremation', that's 'something' and where-ever u apply the ashes u join that 'new' something. The earth n universe follow a similar principle.

That's why i don't accept the nothingness theory as something has to always be present, that's why I struggle with the common origin singularity of the universe as that can't pop out of nothing as we established we know nothingness doesn't exist they replace it now with multi-verse as being present n birthing the universe but then what birthed the multi-verse, it doesn't answer the question at all becuz we know nothingness doesn't exist or else i wud have to accept adam popped out of nothingness as religion teaches or its similar to believing u were born without parents and just exist out of nowhere lol and im not a child anymore believing in aladdin in the genie or kun faya kun or black magic.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Dr Osman struggles with things popping up out of nowhere or else I wud have to assume I popped out of nowhere also loooooooooool without a preceding cause. So please somalis do not make believe in black magic thinking or faith, dont take me down that path

 

[DR OSMAN]

The only thing that stumps me into deep thinking n questioning is 'energy' since energy is needed for everything or else it would die. Their is physical energy and non-physical is what I gathered, and what I am interested in is the non-physical(electrical waves) for example and if that just existed always, imagine a 'tv' with no image but just a grainy output screen is that how the universe was just space-time n electrical waves? then the question is wats the source of that energy. They say energy cant be created or destroyed, so that means it just simply exists eternally.

I will do scratch my head over no 'common origin' points and things just existing without a cause, the only reason why im stumped with energy and unsure is 'its not physical' and only physical has a 'cause origin'. So non physical or invisible things is wat makes me think the most trying to follow a 'common origin direction'

 

[DR OSMAN]

I wish we had mathamatic department in somalia so I cud bump heads with locals and learn n grow together, I would direct them to find 'patterns' in mathamatical sequences, and calculation and create simpler 'theories' but that won't happen thanks to damn islam reducing islamic world iq into retarded level, did u guys read the flat earth theory done by a tunisian muslim woman, google it, u will be in hysteria

That type of mind-set is in the world should scare you all

 

[DR OSMAN]

With maths I would see it as a language like what ur doing now with letters. The more complex n long your words are the more your getting away from 'small beginning' theory to complexity. Like u wrap up words into paragraphs, sentences, words, and then letters, it's a gradual development.

I wud advice somalis to do the same with numbers it's only 1-9 and exclude zero you won't find it.

A beautiful math will wrap it up in a simple equation while capturing all the complexity for example rather then talking about all the leafs in a tree, u create one grouping for it. So long long maths is undesirable as your not capturing the simplicity beginnings of it.

 

[Nomadic lord]

The only thing that stumps me into deep thinking n questioning is 'energy' since energy is needed for everything or else it would die. Their is physical energy and non-physical is what I gathered, and what I am interested in is the non-physical(electrical waves) for example and if that just existed always, imagine a 'tv' with no image but just a grainy output screen is that how the universe was just space-time n electrical waves? then the question is wats the source of that energy. They say energy cant be created or destroyed, so that means it just simply exists eternally.

I will do scratch my head over no 'common origin' points and things just existing without a cause, the only reason why im stumped with energy and unsure is 'its not physical' and only physical has a 'cause origin'. So non physical or invisible things is wat makes me think the most trying to follow a 'common origin direction'

It's understandable that the concept of energy and its origins can be confusing and thought-provoking. While physical energy is more tangible and easier to understand, non-physical energy can be more elusive and difficult to conceptualize.

Regarding the origins of non-physical energy, it's important to note that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be transformed from one form to another. The existence of non-physical energy, such as electrical waves or electromagnetic fields, can be attributed to the fundamental properties of the universe.

In modern physics, the universe is understood to have originated from a singular event known as the Big Bang. During this event, all matter and energy in the universe were created and began to expand and evolve into the universe we observe today. It's believed that the initial energy from the Big Bang continues to exist in the universe in various forms.

Additionally, the laws of physics, such as the conservation of energy, suggest that energy is an inherent property of the universe and always has been. The universe may have always existed in some form, and the non-physical energy we observe today could be a result of the fundamental properties of the universe that have existed since its inception.

Ultimately, the source of non-physical energy is still being explored and researched by physicists and scientists. However, it's important to remember that just because something is non-physical or invisible doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have an origin or source. The universe is a complex and vast system, and there may be underlying principles and properties that contribute to the existence of non-physical energy.

 

[DR OSMAN]

It's understandable that the concept of energy and its origins can be confusing and thought-provoking. While physical energy is more tangible and easier to understand, non-physical energy can be more elusive and difficult to conceptualize.

Regarding the origins of non-physical energy, it's important to note that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be transformed from one form to another. The existence of non-physical energy, such as electrical waves or electromagnetic fields, can be attributed to the fundamental properties of the universe.

In modern physics, the universe is understood to have originated from a singular event known as the Big Bang. During this event, all matter and energy in the universe were created and began to expand and evolve into the universe we observe today. It's believed that the initial energy from the Big Bang continues to exist in the universe in various forms.

Additionally, the laws of physics, such as the conservation of energy, suggest that energy is an inherent property of the universe and always has been. The universe may have always existed in some form, and the non-physical energy we observe today could be a result of the fundamental properties of the universe that have existed since its inception.

Ultimately, the source of non-physical energy is still being explored and researched by physicists and scientists. However, it's important to remember that just because something is non-physical or invisible doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have an origin or source. The universe is a complex and vast system, and there may be underlying principles and properties that contribute to the existence of non-physical energy.

Big Bang is old now isn't it and replaced with a 'slow expansion but enough to generate heat' kind of like an 'oven' it slowly builds up heat, it doesn't just explode to 200 degrees. As for matter(planets, suns), didn't they come along much later when it was only space-time expanding in the black void n cooling off from the inital heat? did gravity originate at the initial singularity expansion or only when the sun n planets formed? to keep them from colliding

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Nomadic lord physical matter I can observe it's energy so it's easier to conceptualize for me. I know it's true it's not created or destroyed(nothingness) but converts like a body converts to ashes so u can assume all physical matter does indeed convert depending on heat or cold sources.

But non physical energy is mind numbing, u don't know what ur visualizing. I mean things like electrical waves, i used to see it in hardware where it provides electricity to hardware component. U seriously can't observe it but it's there doing 'work' and provides 'life' to the PC component.

 

[Nomadic lord]

Big Bang is old now isn't it and replaced with a 'slow expansion but enough to generate heat' kind of like an 'oven' it slowly builds up heat, it doesn't just explode to 200 degrees. As for matter(planets, suns), didn't they come along much later when it was only space-time expanding in the black void n cooling off from the inital heat? did gravity originate at the initial singularity expansion or only when the sun n planets formed? to keep them from colliding

You are correct that the Big Bang theory has evolved and expanded over time. The current understanding of the origins of the universe is based on the concept of cosmic inflation, which suggests that the universe underwent a period of rapid expansion in the moments immediately following the Big Bang. This period of inflation is thought to have lasted for a very short amount of time, during which the universe grew in size by a factor of at least 10^26.

After this period of inflation, the universe continued to expand at a slower rate, gradually cooling as it did so. During this cooling period, matter began to form as particles combined and eventually formed atoms. These atoms then clumped together to form stars and galaxies, which would eventually form larger structures like planets.

Gravity is thought to have been present from the very beginning of the universe, as it is one of the four fundamental forces of nature. However, its effects may not have been immediately noticeable during the early stages of the universe's expansion. As matter began to coalesce and form larger structures like stars and planets, gravity became more important in shaping the structure of the universe.

Overall, the current understanding of the origins of the universe is based on a combination of observational evidence and theoretical models, and our understanding is constantly evolving as new evidence is gathered and analyzed.