Is federalism 'treaty' good or bad for .So?

[Haragwaafi]

So, we throw away the clan in the morning only to reintroduce it through the back door in the evening?

Just like during the civilan adminstration in the 60s seats were never allocated on Qabil when we actually know what kind of people came out and voted in their districts to chose a representative

 

[Haragwaafi]

@Haragwaafi please distinguish system failure and human failure, just becuz their bad doctors in somalia doesn't mean medicine has failed, federalism isnt bad just becuz the human element has played games with it. War waxani waa xoolo sound idea vs human problems ayuu xitaa kala qaadi karin

The idea isn't good and the system is stupid and quiet embarrassing for one people to split their governing postions as if you guys are different ethnic ppl or having different religion or sect

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Just like during the civilan adminstration in the 60s seats were never allocated on Qabil when we actually know what kind of people came out and voted in their districts to chose a representative

And presume as if 1969 - 2000s had not happened? All right, see, if you could give me an example of that.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

The idea isn't good and the system is stupid and quiet embarrassing for one people to split their governing postions as if you guys are different ethnic ppl or having different religion or sect

Have you looked at the system used in Indonesia, and Malaysia?

 

[Haragwaafi]

And presume as if 1969 - 2000s had not happened? All right, see, if you could give me an example of that.

If the coup 1969 didn't happen in my opnion it would have been much better in the long run for somali state identity as it would mature ith evetuone embracing it past their qabil where oppostion to SYL rule will not come from a certain clans or communities as we would see parties that would include everyone even northners who were the biggest vocal oppostion in the 60s their political stance would be regionalism at least in the public eye.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Have you looked at the system used in Indonesia, and Malaysia?

Yes one is a diverse unitarian state while the latter is a supramacist malay federal constitutional monarchy

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

If the coup 1969 didn't happen in my opnion it would have been much better in the long run for somali state identity as it would mature ith evetuone embracing it past their qabil where oppostion to SYL rule will not come from a certain clans or communities as we would see parties that would include everyone even northners who were the biggest vocal oppostion in the 60s their political stance would be regionalism at least in the public eye.

A bit idealistic, no? Let us deal in actuality, and the present moment, in the 21st century, instead of wishing what could have, or might have been, shall we? Are you by any chance in the US?

Yes one is a diverse unitarian state while the latter is a supramacist malay federal constitutional monarchy

Both are of Federal type structure, where each State is governed by the majority ethnicity, which in turn is divided along clan lines, with a Sultan in charge. So, in Indonesia, in the case of Aceh (predominantly of conservative Acehnese, Javanese Muslims practising strict Shari'a with clans and cliques), and Bali (predominantly of Hindu, and the favourite destination for venal European old men seeking sun, sand, and @ex). Explore it a bit more.

 

[DR OSMAN]

A bit idealistic, no? Let us deal in actuality, and the present moment, in the 21st century, instead of wishing what could have, or might have been, shall we? Are you by any chance in the US?

Both are of Federal type structure, where each State is governed by the majority ethnicity, which in turn is divided along clan lines, with a Sultan in charge. So in the case of Aceh (predominantly of Muslims practising strict Shari'a), and Bali (predominantly of Hindu, and the favourite destination for venal European old men seeking sun, sand, and @ex). Explore it a bit more.

Australia federal model is closer to Somalia. 6 regions ayaa isugu yimi shirwayne qaran oo lagu heeshiye federal iyo statuska iyo awoodaha la kala lee yahay key word wa laysku yimi not hal dhinac model, halka hal kale New zealand waa loo yeeray waa diiday. Casimadeena waa mid aad uu yar oo kooban oo maqaam 'territory' leh halka gobolada waa awooda dalka dhinac walbo. Madax 'yar' iyo Jir wayn model(federalism), not madax wayn iyo jir caato ah(centralism)

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Australia federal model is closer to Somalia. 6 regions ayaa isugu yimi shirwayne qaran oo lagu heeshiye federal iyo statuska iyo awoodaha la kala lee yahay key word wa laysku yimi not hal dhinac model, halka hal kale New zealand waa loo yeeray waa diiday. Casimadeena waa mid aad uu yar oo kooban oo maqaam 'territory' leh halka gobolada waa awooda dalka dhinac walbo. Madax 'yar' iyo Jir wayn model, not madax wayn iyo jir caato ah.

I think Australia was modelled after the US. At what phase is it now: cooperative, or creative federalism, except Commonwealth and distinct characteristics of Parliamentary system modelled after the British?

 

[DR OSMAN]

I think Australia was modelled after the US. At what phase is it now: cooperative, or creative federalism?

Yes it's influenced our state model such as senate and federalism and small capital and powerful economic regions. Our High Court, Parliament model, govt model is westminster and british legacy.

We also have a governor general representing boqorka charles, wuxu haysta 'awood' reserve power to save australia in political turmoil hadi siyasiinta heeshin karin ama dagaal loo socodo(national emergency) halka day to day govt affairs shaqo kuma laha.

That's why I promote we give our isimo similar constitutional reserve power role to save puntland in a war or political disagreement ama systemki burbur ku socoda but isolate them from political day to day so they dont become political. It's a wise check n balance knowing politicians in every system and state organ can lead to conflict of interest.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Yes it's influenced our state model such as senate and federalism and small capital and powerful economic regions. Our High Court, Parliament model, govt model is westminster and british legacy.

We also have a governor general representing boqorka charles, wuxu haysta 'awood' reserve power to save australia in political turmoil hadi siyasiinta heeshin karin ama dagaal loo socodo(national emergency) halka day to day govt affairs shaqo kuma laha.

That's why I promote we give our isimo similar constitutional reserve power role to save puntland in a war or political disagreement ama systemki burbur ku socoda but isolate them from political day to day so they dont become political. It's a wise check n balance knowing politicians in every system and state organ can lead to conflict of interest.

Does it also have the Electoral College?

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

That's why I promote we give our isimo similar constitutional reserve power role to save puntland in a war or political disagreement ama systemki burbur ku socoda but isolate them from political day to day so they dont become political. It's a wise check n balance knowing politicians in every system and state organ can lead to conflict of interest.

Issimo have a role, as stipulated in PL Constitution, which I am in favour of, yet I am not in favour of the Guurti being politicised as happened in SL.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Does it also have the Electoral College?

No it's a popular democracy no electoral college which is an inclusive democracy to ensure govt doesnt neglect rural areas in america.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Both are of Federal type structure, where each State is governed by the majority ethnicity, which in turn is divided along clan lines, with a Sultan in charge. So in the case of Aceh (predominantly of Muslims practising strict Shari'a), and Bali (predominantly of Hindu, and the favourite destination for venal European old men seeking sun, sand, and @ex). Explore it a bit more.

Malaysia sultanates aren't based on "clan" lines as no such thing as that exists in Malay people culture and those sultanates are just old monarachial malay dynasties that have been under British protactorate only for young western educated malays founding a nationalist political movement bring those sultanates under one federally constituitonal monarchy country except Burnai where the sultan was more powerful and influncial.

Indonesia isn't a federal nation but a unitary quasi secular state as only 5 religion are recognised according to the state official ideolgy so Bali region being a predominatly a Hindu Island and a region isn't a major concern for the central govt.

Nothing about those two countries is similar to what exists in Somalia.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Issimo have a role, as stipulated in PL Constitution, which I am in favour of, yet I am not in favour of the Guurti being politicised as happened in SL.

The SL guurti lost it's respect as 'siyasi' danahooda ka shaqayo kkkk, thats why isimo in PL shud remain outside day to day politics whether parliament, ministries, courts, govt. It should have constitutional level reserve power to only intervene in disaster whether war or political deadlock, waa in la haysta marjac loo noqdo ileen systemka waxa ka buuxo siyasiin danahooda uu daran.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Malaysia sultanates aren't based on "clan" lines as no such thing as that exists in Malay people culture and those sultanates are just old monarachial malay dynasties that have been under British protactorate only for young western educated malays founding a nationalist political movement bring those sultanates under one federally constituitonal monarchy country except Burnai where the sultan was more powerful and influncial.

Indonesia isn't a federal nation but a unitary quasi secular state as only 5 religion are recognised according to the state official ideolgy so Bali region being a predominatly a Hindu Island and a region isn't a major concern for the central govt.

Nothing about those two countries is similar to what exists in Somalia.

Have you had direct exposure to their systems?
Having travelled through both, I could say there are many similarities, culturally nomadic, or farmers, egalitarian nature, and simplicity in thought.

 

[Removed]

That's the civil war era but creating a state for the diferent tribes won't solve the issue.

Regions with 2 or more clans on similiar footing has only led to constant infighting between them.

The idea that the 18 gobols wouldnt devolve into their own clan states aswell is out of touch. Somalis are a tribal society to the core its more efficient to build around that reality then force political systems that dont fit to try and remold Somali society.

 

[bidenkulaha]

That's the civil war era but creating a state for the diferent tribes won't solve the issue.

We can keep what we have but turn the currents states into local type administrations. Basically turn the Ministers back into agaasimo that implement things while FGS ministers control most of the important functions of the state.

Currently that’s where we are headed with the constitution.

We aren’t suited to a completely central system as vast majority of funding would go to the centre. Having states split FGS revenue and lead implementation is good way to keep the country progressing everywhere

 

[Removed]

We can keep what we have but turn the currents states into local type administrations. Basically turn the Ministers back into agaasimo that implement things while FGS ministers control most of the important functions of the state.

Currently that’s where we are headed with the constitution.

We aren’t suited to a completely central system as vast majority of funding would go to the centre. Having states split FGS revenue and lead implementation is good way to keep the country progressing everywhere

Whatever amendment is made to the provisional dastuur its clearly not feasible for the FGS to control states who are gaining more and more revenue(autonomy) as the years pass.

None of the factors that gave them their autonomy gets taken away. The peoples opinion, the revenue, the standing military, the political norms, the tribal paradigm, and the foreign ties are all the same. Its more likely KG tries to secure funding through a Baraawe port then accept a Darood/Isaaq class which isnt tied to Xamar.

 

[Abaq]

We r Somali only outside Somalia not inside good observation and clan allegiance is the cultural value, and sorry all federal models have to accomodate their on-ground cultural narrative not copy n paste fueedal peasantry culture federalism.

Clan federalism addresses every factor in Somalia not only cultural values but historical pre-colonial somalia, colonial legacy of copying/pasting foreign systems, civilian/kacaan centralized state experiment, civil war era and mistrust, regional economic disparity.

It hits all over it and covers it beautifully in a beautiful mosaic of dimensions. You dont have to like it and can list all its flaw, but it's the best system addressing somali characteristics which no other system does other then what 'few' ppl want or 'diaspora foreign cuqdad desires to unite' and over-ride on-ground realities.

This is it. In my critique of the Madhalays Republic, I argue that the artificiality of it rests on the fact that the very fabric of the Republic is alien to the Somali psyche. Clan federalism, better yet confederation, marries perfectly with the clannish and independent sentiments of Somalis. Only a state based on Somali ethics, morals, history, and culture will last. Every foreign, imported system is doomed to fail as the 60s and the Kacaan showed.