Imam Ahmed Gurey? Somali, harari, or Yemeni?

[Dima&Damo]

He was Harla according to my sources. I will make a thread about this Inshalaah.

Harla koombe his sister was married to geri kombe commander at the time

 

[Mount23]

Yemeni lol, Somalis obssesed making everyone Yemeni wtf

 

[Som]

He was Harla according to my sources. I will make a thread about this Inshalaah.

Most modern sources say he was Somali, some other say he was Argobba or harari.
Harla seems like a good hypothesis, Harla people were assimilated by somalis , promos and hararis so this would make Ahmed Guray as a pan horn African muslim leader who is shared between all of us. my personal hypothesis is that Ahmed Gurey had mixed somali, harari heritage , i base this assumption on the close ties Ahmed Gurey had with Somalis (somalis married into his family) and with Hararis ( he married a harari woman). Anyway I look forward to your thread, tag me when you post it

 

[niggaibnh]

Yemeni lol, Somalis obssesed making everyone Yemeni wtf

?

you're lost son

 

[Hamzza]

Most modern sources say he was Somali, some other say he was Argobba or harari.
Harla seems like a good hypothesis, Harla people were assimilated by somalis , promos and hararis so this would make Ahmed Guray as a pan horn African muslim leader who is shared between all of us. my personal hypothesis is that Ahmed Gurey had mixed somali, harari heritage , i base this assumption on the close ties Ahmed Gurey had with Somalis (somalis married into his family) and with Hararis ( he married a harari woman). Anyway I look forward to your thread, tag me when you post it

Yes, most academics said Ahmed Gurey was ethnic Somali, but in a lazy way without researching. Only three scholars have studied the subject in great depth:
1. Tekle Mekuria
2. Mohamed Hassan
3. And Hanika
Their results were different, Mekuria said he was Somali Hawiya paternally and Harla maternally. Mohamed Hassan said he was Harla. And Hinika said he was Balaw-Afar.

The origin of the know extinct Harla is another controversial topic. Some scholars(Majority), are saying they were Ethio-Semitic speaking people related to, Harari, Zilte and Argobba, others(minority), are saying they were Somaloid group who spoke a Cushitic language closely related to Somali.

 

[Farahslayer]

A huge reason why Amhara and other highlanders hate Somalis is because of him. They’re hatred of Somalis stems from trauma from back in those days, otherwise they have no reason to hate Somalis (unlike Somalis who have more modern reasons to hate highlanders).

So if he was ethio or Yemeni then why the f*ck are we blamed lmao.

These habasha want it both ways. They wanna play victim but @ the same time want to claim a victory under “Ethiopia”.

 

[Hamzza]

@Shimbiris
You convincingly debunked the Balaw myth sxb.

As for the fire trial see this thread

 

[Prince of HS]

His last name is literallly gurey. If there was even no other evidence that should be one. That name is Somali as fock

but yeah he’s obviously Somali

 

[Hamzza]

His last name is literallly gurey. If there was even no other evidence that should be one. That name is Somali as fock

but yeah he’s obviously Somali

There is no proof that his last name was Gurey.

There are two Ahmed's mentioned in the Book Futuh al Habaša, one was the famous Imam Ahmed bin Ibrahim; the other was Ahmed Gurey As Somali chief of Habar Maqdi, so Somalis are conflating Imam Ahmed with Ahmed Gurey chief of the Habar Maqdi Somali clan.
The existence of two such characters, of course, does not eliminate the possibility that both were Somali.

 

[El Nino]

There is no proof that his last name was Gurey.

There are two Ahmed's mentioned in the Book Futuh al Habaša, one was the famous Imam Ahmed bin Ibrahim; the other was Ahmed Gurey As Somali chief of Habar Maqdi, so Somalis are conflating Imam Ahmed with Ahmed Gurey chief of the Habar Maqdi Somali clan.
The existence of two such characters, of course, does not eliminate the possibility that both were Somali.

The Imam was Karanle, his subclan was mentioned by the habeshas he was fighting and thats a Karanle subclan.

 

[xLibaxsenderx]

So I’m reading futuh Al Habasa and surprised by how we claim Ahmed gurey but there is no evidence of him being Somali.


“They never described imam Ahmad gurey as Somali in the Book “Futuh Al-Habasa-Conquest of Abyssinia”. They mentioned the First Somalis to reach harar as Habr Maqdi and they showed of their equipment and their weapons, and paraded their horses. They were knights, and what nights! And they were foot-soldiers; and what foot soldiers! The imam rejoiced at their arrival exceedingly. After the tribe of Girri came. Their chieftain was bin Utman bin kaled, the Somali. They showed their weaponary and armour, paraded their horses and had their bows Slung sash like over their shoulders as they met the imam face to face. Tribe Zarba came after…the tribe marraihan was however wavering. Their chieftain was a man fond of intrigue and procrastination. Extremely willy, double-dealings and swindles. The imam organized some of his soldiers and went to the marraihan and confronted hirabu and his tribe and said to him “why are you lagging behind in coming on jihad? Hirabu complained and excused himself on the grounds of his poverty stricken state. The imam accepted his excuse, and then said to him “but no good will come to you from just wishing (things will improve “) thereupon hirabu appointed his nephew to command the marraihan and they rallied around the imam- ninety calvalry and more than seven hundred foot soldiers. The imam went back to his city of harar, taking the tribe of marraihan with him. ( pg 43-44)
The imam Ahmad…summoned the sultan Muhammad son of the sultan Ali son of his maternal aunt, and the sheikh Ans, son of the shiekh sihab bin Abd Al wahab, son of the sheikh buba, and put under their command all the tribes of harla, as for instance the tribe of zaman bara, the tribe of bazara with their chieftain, the tribe of yaqula, and the tribe of Jasar, the tribe of ‘Arab Tka, and the tribe of Al-Qa all of these belong to Harla. The imam commanded them to hold the Muslims’ right
Then he assembled the Somali tribes: the tribe of girri, the tribe of marraihan, the tribe of yibberi with the chieftain Ahmed Girri, the tribe of the Harti, people of Mait, the tribe of jaran, the tribe of mazzar. The tribe of barsub: all of these were Somalis and they were ordered by the imam to hold the left. In the center was the imam Ahmad bin Ibrahim, may the most high god have mercy on him, with the Calvary surrounding him, like ferocious lions. The leaders of the knights were emir Husain bin Abu Bakr Al-Guturi, the emir Zaharbui Muhammad, and farasaham Ali, the wazir Nur Bin Ibrahim, the emir Mujahid, Farasaham as Sultan, and Abd anNasr, the sheikh Dawa, the emir Abu Bakr Qatin and Farasaham Din (pg 76)
On The left was the Somali Tribe of Harti, from the people of mait; a people not given to yielding. There were three hundred of them, famous amoung the infantry as stolid swordsmen. In the same way there was the tribe of yibberi, around four hundred infantrymen, archers. Some the imam attached them to five hundred who held the centre, saying to them “hold your positions; don’t budge, any of you’ “the tribe Girri were all horsemen, renowned as riders…( pg 77) “

He was muslim leader and mujahid, i dont think its befitting to ascribe such as divisive schisms to a character whos mark in history is cloving horn african muslims under the banner of islam.

 

[Hamzza]

The Imam was Karanle, his subclan was mentioned by the habeshas he was fighting and thats a Karanle subclan.

Balaws are Beğa from Tigray

 

[El Nino]

Balaws are Beğa from TigrayView attachment 240613

Source?

 

[El Nino]

@Hamzza you said earlier the Imam was Harla and know he was arabisized tigrayan Whats your source niyow

Check @Mckenzie posts, what do you disagree with it ?

 

[Hamzza]

Source?

Encyclopedia Aethiopica

 

[HiraanBorn]

Sorry but if you're basing the "Balaw" claim on the Futux it is clearly moot. His father was not the Ibrahim who is a Balaw as you can see above and the "Abun" you are talking about who is his brother and the one he serves under are not the same person either and these idiotic secondary authors didn't read the document well and have misled people for decades now. Read it yourself:



I welcome you sharing sources other than the Futux that back your claim but the Futux itself is clear on this. He is not Balaw and there is zero proof for it.

Nonsense

In the futuh al habasha there was no mention of the imams ethnicty, However there are many referrences of his relatives who seem to be from the belaw ethnicty
The imam was born in the city hubat located between zeilac and harar, its ruler was the cheiftain of the belaw

Al futuh says: ''ibrahim bin ahmed ruler of the country of hubat of The tribe of belaw''
this ibrahim ruler of hubat seems to be the imams father

Al futuh says: ''the imam was at that time knight under garaad abun who loved him and show how courageous he was''

This is what some people told him. separating him and Garad Mahfuz of the Walashma, and there only connection is thru marriage. the Imam was married to his daughter bati al wambara

They gathered in Amajah where they stayed three days. It was one of the towns in Abyssinia that had Muslims living in it. But it belonged to the king. Its inhabitants then went to the imam Ahmad and said, "The king of Abyssinia has a mighty force with him; the number of his horses is incalculable. Only the Most High God knows the number of his coats of mail, helmets, foot-soldiers and shields made of hide. Your fathers, your ancestors, the emir `Ali, the emir Mahfuz your father-in-law, along with Garad Ibrahim and the sultans who long ago used to rule in the country of Sa`d ad-Din - not one of them has ever attacked the king of Abyssinia in his own country, in his own dwelling-place

this garaad abun seems his brother WHO have trained him. but the futah says he is his cousin by the name of Garad abun ibn adash of hubat as well. the futah never mentions him as a Brother but cousin..

here is where it gets weird.. Ethiopian soldier or A king sends a letter to Axmed gurey thru Arab fiqi WHO wrote the book futah, and this letter is also used in the futah.. but he never corrects him.

''It was I who long ago killed your brother Garad Abun, son of Garad Ibrahim, who was older than you in years. I routed his army, and did so more than once. Don't imagine that I am like any of the patricians whom you've encountered up till now. I am Wasan Sagad''

Wasan Sagad says his Brother while arab fiqi claim as his cousin.. some one is misinformed they can not both be correct and it will later on show that arab fiqi is correct. sinces he was with the imam.

The futah goes on to praise Garad abun ibn adash and says that he loved Axmed gurey

''After this Garad Abun came against him, and ruled for seven years. He clung to the truth, and exercised justice and authority in a fair way, banning what was forbidden, killing highwaymen, forbidding wine, games, and dances accompanied by drums. The country flourished. He cultivated the nobles and the Qur'anic teachers, the dervishes and the sheikhs. He ruled over his kingdom and worked for the good of his subjects.

Our lord the imam of the Muslims, Ahmad bin Ibrahim al-Ghazi was at that time a knight under Garad Abun, endowed with intelligence and foresight who consulted, in his youth and his prime, the inspiration of God the Most High in regard to the commission that God willed should be entrusted to him. Garad Abun loved him mightily, when he saw how courageous and astute he was''

ancient oromo beliefs says that Axmed gurey was a Balaw Karanle hawiya babile afaan oromo, and they have that written Down in some books, which are not translated. but they believe he was a balaw.

The tigriyan highlanders also have there claims on him and have some books. that claim he is a balaw, from tigriyans themselves because there is a tigriyan balaw's in the highlands of ethiopia.. and when the Imam captured habasha he had his camp there and his wife was with them in the war times. they were guarding her. he also had a meeting with some balaw tribes during his camp up there.


Now the Question is WHO are this balaw tribe and where do they live? we know that the Garad Ibrahim of hubat was a balaw.

Hubat is located between Harar and babile, and the city is called in af somali ''Hoobad'' and the people you will find today in this city are still the same. they belong to the same tribe as the balaw mentioned up. Balaw is a sub-sub-sub tribe under Karanle sixawle and this tribe still lives in hoobad, and the entire city is mainly karanle sixawle balaw.

You think you know more than the highest Harari & Ethiopian scholars? Go and sit down son.

 

[HiraanBorn]

Alot of people lack the use of historiography and many believe it is a fancy term for personal interpretation but it really isn't. Historiography is what protects even the sciences of Hadith as scholars of the Salaf use this criteria to identify sayings of the Prophet (primary source) into strong Hadiths, weak Hadiths, Qiyaas etc. You can find Hadiths that appear contradictory, without this historiography one could even dispute the message of Islam.

In context, you have Shihabuddin (primary source 1) and the letters of Wasan Seged (primary source 2). From the example of Garaad Abuun we can see a contradiction or mutual exclusitivity that goes against the majority opinion on the matter, it is historiography (secondary sources like the works of the Salaf) that finds a solution to this problem. If a Muslim Scholar of history and a Christian scholar of history have come together to address this, how do we as common people think it's valid to dispute this without access to the knowledge they ammased on the topic?

The guy thinks he's so smart walaahi, let him believe his nonsense and contradictions. The top Harari & Ethiopian scholars have given clear indication that the Imam Ahmed Gurey was most likely Belaw a sub sub sub clan of the Sexawle Karanle.

 

[Hamzza]

The guy thinks his so smart walaahi, let him believe his nonsense and contradictions

Who is that guy?

 

[HiraanBorn]

Who is that guy?

I'm talking about the self-proclaimed "genius" @Shimbiris

 

[HiraanBorn]

The leading historian of Ethiopia, former Minister of Education, Arts & Culture and Dean of the National Library under Haile Selassie, Takla Sadiq Mekuria, devoted a 950-page book to the question of origin of Gragn and the identity of the Malassay in his rough monograph on the Gragn Wars (1973/1974) called "Ya Gragn Warara" (The Conquests of Gragn), in it he draws on the evidence from Arab Faqih Sihab Uddin and the chronicles of Sarsa-Dengel. Takla was also able to draw on the traditions of Harar as well as the translated works of Enrico Cerulli and Phillip Paulitchke. Through the mediation of Dagazmac Wargnah he interviewed Ahmed Ali Sami, the highest authoritative scholar of Harar that produced the concise history of Harar (Fatah Madinat Harar) for several European institutions and concludes Gragn's father was to come from the Hawiye (Somali clan) in the Ogaden; a genealogy of eight generations before Gragn is known in this tradition.[33]