If Yemen can do this in a desert why not Somalia?
- Thread starter Abaq
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Yemen cultivates both coffee and khat, despite its dense population, Although they have an mountainous terrain. In contrast, Somalia has far more fertile land but imports khat worth billions of dollars from Kenya and Ethiopia and grows very little of its own crops.
There is only one reason for this, Somali people are extremely lazy(except for the geeljire).
Theyre not lazy they just donβt know how to grow stuff. Somalis are pastoralists in nature and most of the people in major cities today are 1 generation removed from miyi culture. Most of them should be sent back to where they came from
Even this 'not knowing how to grow stuff' is a huge misconception. Somali nomads themselves used to plant some kind of grain if I am not mistaken, how else did we eat canjeelo. In addition, there are old date farms in Bari. I am sure there is more evidence out there. Maybe @Idilinaa will post evidence before the retirement?
Documentary about an ancient trading town called 'Geesaleey'
They mention the founding of the place, was 5 centuries ago, but I am sure it's far, far older.
www.somalispot.com
Idilinaa
VIP
Yemen is not fully a desert, it holds the most agricultural fertile land in all of Arabia. Their fertile land covers more area than Somalia and has more rainfall. Most of Somalia is not cultivatable without heavy modern equipment and investments, except for certain areas like the NorthWestern Highlands and Jubba Shabelle Valleys where you have historical farming communities. In Eastern lands they cultivate date plantations and wood to circumvent the saline soil that prevent other crops.
In Yemen they actually scaled back coffee production to cultivate more Khat which has crippled its society, on the other hand Somalia they cultivate and export Banana and Sesame as cash crops which they export.
Some coastal Somali cities are esentially built in a desert, especially older historic ones such as Zeila, Berbera and Mogadishu, Merca and Barawa which were located on the coast. Same with the old date plantation city of Geesalay as you mentioned
Only the interior modern cities grew around fertile agricultural settlements like Burco, Borama and Hargeisa. They were essentially centers connected to farming villages . So i have no idea what @berberaboy66 @Garaad.XIV are on about, where there is suitable fertile land , Somalis farmed. Whether they farm or not has nothing to do with being lazy
Historically Zeila and Berbera they farmed grains which needed heavy uses of water transport and collection because of lack of rainfall but most was supplied with grains from further in land but Mogadishu, Kismayo, Merca and Barawa is surounded by sand dunes on all sides made it unsuitable for farming even with water availability so they relied on the far interior of shabelle for food production.
Lets just take Barawa as an example , it literally is a city built in a desert.
In Yemen they actually scaled back coffee production to cultivate more Khat which has crippled its society, on the other hand Somalia they cultivate and export Banana and Sesame as cash crops which they export.
Some coastal Somali cities are esentially built in a desert, especially older historic ones such as Zeila, Berbera and Mogadishu, Merca and Barawa which were located on the coast. Same with the old date plantation city of Geesalay as you mentioned
Only the interior modern cities grew around fertile agricultural settlements like Burco, Borama and Hargeisa. They were essentially centers connected to farming villages . So i have no idea what @berberaboy66 @Garaad.XIV are on about, where there is suitable fertile land , Somalis farmed. Whether they farm or not has nothing to do with being lazy
Historically Zeila and Berbera they farmed grains which needed heavy uses of water transport and collection because of lack of rainfall but most was supplied with grains from further in land but Mogadishu, Kismayo, Merca and Barawa is surounded by sand dunes on all sides made it unsuitable for farming even with water availability so they relied on the far interior of shabelle for food production.
Lets just take Barawa as an example , it literally is a city built in a desert.
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Please stop with the misinformation. Somalis DO farm and have done for centuries.
Somalis in the south have been blocked from exporting our agriculture by western countries purely to keep us in perpetual poverty.
Idilinaa
VIP
Infact one of the most productive farming communities you would find between Hargeisa and Harar.
Hargeisa, Borama, Gabiley and Burco etc are all farming settlements that grew into cities and people farm and cultivate various crops in the surrounding country side, but unlike the south and Harar uplands/ Or Erer zone, its primarily subsistence based for the current moment mostly sorghum and maize.
If you want to increase activity it would require some investment. When the Kacaan government invested into the area with better equipments, it grew surpluses
I wouldn't say it's been directly blocked, its been undermined and some of it's owed due the collapse of the the state and conflict, that kept people for sometime producing things outside local consumption.
Before the 91 collapse, Somalia was the biggest exporter of Banana, with extensive banana plantations.
Somaliaβs post-conflict banana harvest revival
Once the country's largest industry, banana farmers return to plantations as Somalia conflicts cool off.
Luckily food exports like Banana and Sesame have been picked back up again in recent years. The sesame export is valued at 300 million annually, current our biggest crop export next to lemons.
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Infact one of the most productive farming communities you would find between Hargeisa and Harar.
Hargeisa, Borama, Gabiley and Burco etc are all farming settlements that grew into cities and people farm and cultivate various crops in the surrounding country side, but unlike the south and Harar uplands/ Or Erer zone, its primarily subsistence based for the current moment mostly sorghum and maize.
If you want to increase activity it would require some investment. When the Kacaan government invested into the area with better equipments, it grew surpluses
I wouldn't say it's been directly blocked, its been undermined and some of it's owed due the collapse of the the state and conflict, that kept people for sometime producing things outside local consumption.
Before the 91 collapse, Somalia was the biggest exporter of Banana, with extensive banana plantations.
Somaliaβs post-conflict banana harvest revival
Once the country's largest industry, banana farmers return to plantations as Somalia conflicts cool off.www.aljazeera.com
Luckily food exports like Banana and Sesame have been picked back up again in recent years. The sesame export is valued at 300 million annually, current our biggest crop export next to lemons.
I would agree with you about everything except for the directly blocked thing.
The US created an embargo on all agricultural exports from Somalia which was our main export to not only Asia but also Europe claiming that is how warlords got their arms supply. Obviously thats a BS reason to economically cripple a country. They then flooded our country with rotted USAID destroying our local markets as well.
This isnβt the first time western countries try to economically cripple us as well. When we gained independence from Britain and subsequently Italy, the British empire destroyed our railway in the south and several manufacturing plants in modern day Puntland.
Most Somalis just assume just because our industries have died that they never existed and itβs sad.
Yemen is not fully a desert, it holds the most agricultural fertile land in all of Arabia. Their fertile land covers more area than Somalia and has more rainfall. Most of Somalia is not cultivatable without heavy modern equipment and investments, except for certain areas like the NorthWestern Highlands and Jubba Shabelle Valleys where you have historical farming communities. In Eastern lands they cultivate date plantations and wood to circumvent the saline soil that prevent other crops.
In Yemen they actually scaled back coffee production to cultivate more Khat which has crippled its society, on the other hand Somalia they cultivate and export Banana and Sesame as cash crops which they export.
Some coastal Somali cities are esentially built in a desert, especially older historic ones such as Zeila, Berbera and Mogadishu, Merca and Barawa which were located on the coast. Same with the old date plantation city of Geesalay as you mentioned
Only the interior modern cities grew around fertile agricultural settlements like Burco, Borama and Hargeisa. They were essentially centers connected to farming villages . So i have no idea what @berberaboy66 @Garaad.XIV are on about, where there is suitable fertile land , Somalis farmed. Whether they farm or not has nothing to do with being lazy
Historically Zeila and Berbera they farmed grains which needed heavy uses of water transport and collection because of lack of rainfall but most was supplied with grains from further in land but Mogadishu, Kismayo, Merca and Barawa is surounded by sand dunes on all sides made it unsuitable for farming even with water availability so they relied on the far interior of shabelle for food production.
Lets just take Barawa as an example , it literally is a city built in a desert.
I remember reading a bit of Virginia Luling's book on the Geledi Suldaans. They pretty much had a chokehold on the Banaadir ruling councils automatically when they gained control over the caravans and agriculture of the riverine south. When the Omanis wanted to build their fort they just bypassed the Banaadir community and went straight to the Geledi for permission.
It goes to show, by the way, how absurd it always was to ever even suggest these towns were dominated by anything other than Gibil Madows and the tribes of the interior. They were historically completely dependent on the caravans of the interior, not just for food but for even all their exports.
I don't know why people think Somalis is an aired place, because it's truly not. The problem we have is we too many grazing animal which wipeout the grass land and small tree. For instance we have more grazing animal then Somalis in Somalia. Somalia is not 4th largest exporter for livestock animal. This why Somali is so aired. Its due to miss management of land use
NordicSomali
VIP
Sometimes I even forget Yemen exists, one of those countries you donβt notice, along with Oman.
Idilinaa
VIP
The interior had such power over the coast that they could impose sanctions by cutting off the supply chains if the coastal people stepped out of line and did not act in their best interests.
It wasn't just Geledi even the Biimaal was sanctioning the coastal families during the 1800s and it is greater reason why Zanzibari/Omanis failed in establishing any real authority because they couldn't penetrate interior only was forced to have a small nominal presence on the coast because the true power layed in the hands of whomever controlled the interior and they was forced negotiate directly with powerful Somali clans and interior rulers
I can't stress this enough when i say "The coast was set up as a commercial outlet for the interior" . Let me show you a direct example of this:
From the same text i shared earlier in another thread about Hawiye farmers in the inlands, It also mentions Kismaayo the southern coastal city which did not exist until 1869 when Somali clans in Upper Jubba valley opened it up for trade and later they invited Majerteen/Harti traders to help develop the trade:
''Neverthelesss Kismayu is the natural outlet of the vast basin of the Juba, which reaches the sea about 12 miles to the north-east. In 1869 this town did not yet exist, but in that year some Somali emigrants from the Upper Jubba Valley, and especially from the neighbourhood of Bardera or Bal Tir, the chief market of the interior, established themselves at this favourable point of the coast, and opened direct commercial relations with Zanzibar.
Later some members of Mijuirtin tribe, the most energetic traders on the whole seaboard also settled in the same place, the population of which had already risen to eight thousand six hundred in the year 1873."
Some pictures of Kismaayo during the late 1800- early 1900s
Not a single coastal town or settlement was an enclave by non-Somalis, they only arrived later in small numbers after Somalis built these cities up and made them into viable commercial hubs and opened it up for trade and Somalis settled into them in much greater numbers.
Because the Swahili coast operated like a genuine enclave controlled by external traders they just unfairly transfer that story onto Somalia. Same thing with transferring the understanding of the climate and geography of Arabia onto Somalia and think it's similar when it's not in actuality.
Somalia actually supported Arabia with Agricultural produce and was far more productive not vice versa.
In the past it was usually not just meat exports or even livestock. It was also other agricultural products.
Somalia was the main supplier of grain and other products to Southern Arabia and Yemen. Which basically dubbed southern-central part of Somalia as the ''Grain Coast supplier of Southern Arabia'' from the mid 1800s
In the medieval times 1500s Northern Somalia used to produce a lot of food of all types, especially various agricultural products and the export of it went to supply Aden and other parts of Arabia to qoute ''A port of much provisions for Aden, and all parts of Arabia'' . So yeah you are right in a way when you say it was the ''breadbasket''
The exorbitant amount of agricultural output in Northern Somalia was also observed by the Portuguese. The general region produced so much food that it exported much of it's surplus to regions nearby.
What they do is actually misrepresent Somalia's geography, economic activity and way of life in the process so they can engage in these racialized stereotyping identity exclusionary political games. It's a big disservice because it leads to misunderstandings about its land, resources, and development potential.
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Idilinaa
VIP
You are right. Somalia isn't naturally a desert or arid place , it is mostly rich in vegetation. Overgrazing by livestock damages the land.
Historically Somalis almost never or rarely used to export livestock, they used to instead process only the meat, butter and hide from it. Not ship them in whole parts abroad and they relied more on agricultural and industrial exports like building materials, mats, textiles, leather and harvest or cultivated crops and spices.
We shouldn't export livestock at all in my opinion in large numbers, this is why in recent years livestock export has slowed down due to processing facilities, canning companies and slaughter houses and tanning facilities that have been opened up. So we are starting to see that transition away from it happening now.
Somali Meat Company , Mogadishu, Banadir, Somalia | Kulmie Business Directory
About Somali Meat Company Somali Meat Company (SOMEAT) is privately owned by group of meat exporters and theoretically was established in 1995 for the mission of producing & exporting quality wholesome, and disease-free meat, which is fit for huma
In the past the vast green pastures operated more like controlled grazing ranges almost akin to the ranch farms you see in America today and there was Xeer laws in place to prevent over-grazing and land degradation and depletion of resources. Like Xuungabe, Xoodhaste, Xartuule, which are illegal offenses by people who would either cut trees, misuse water resources etc
Entire pastures would be closed off and regarded as Xiirmo to protect and preserve it:
The problem with livestock export is that you naturally have to increase the size of your herd to support it and it will intensify their use of the land depleting it's resources in the long run.
The colonial admins bypassed it all to prevent the longterm sustainability of Somalia's economic system and introduced the forced demand for livestock exports.
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According to that image about Kismayo, it says at the bottom that the sultan of Zanizbar tried to reassert his control over it so did they actually control it or was is this simply another nominal rule context?
It was probably nominal rule. Juba was only recently reconquered from Oromos by Somalis.The time frame doesnβt add up.
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