Human remains in somali tombs should be DNA tested

Som

VIP
One of the best ways to shed light on our country's history would be to dna test skeletal remains in somali burialsites.
There are several islamic and pre islamic burial sites in somaliland (aw barkhadle for example) and several muslim graves all over the country that date back to the middle ages.
If these tombs still contain human remains they should be DNA tested to see their ethnic ancestry. This will help us determine the ethnic composition of ancient somalia and also shed light on how somalis came to occupy most of the horn of Africa.
 

Aurelian

Forza Somalia!
VIP
One of the best ways to shed light on our country's history would be to dna test skeletal remains in somali burialsites.
There are several islamic and pre islamic burial sites in somaliland (aw barkhadle for example) and several muslim graves all over the country that date back to the middle ages.
If these tombs still contain human remains they should be DNA tested to see their ethnic ancestry. This will help us determine the ethnic composition of ancient somalia and also shed light on how somalis came to occupy most of the horn of Africa.
Desecration of graves, specially Somalis ancestors graves? Well good luck doing that.
 

Som

VIP
Desecration of graves, specially Somalis ancestors graves? Well good luck doing that.
It's not desecration, you can analyze human remains without completely destroying tombs.
As somalis most of our history relies on subjective arabic , european accounts and somali oral traditions. Dna is however is more objective and doesn't lie. Somali history and archeology is still under researched so if we want to know more we need to dig those graves and put everything back in place once we are finished.
Somalis don't give an f. anyways, most of the historical sites in both s/land and somalia are neglected and almost forgotten.
 

Aurelian

Forza Somalia!
VIP
It's not desecration, you can analyze human remains without completely destroying tombs.
As somalis most of our history relies on subjective arabic , european accounts and somali oral traditions. Dna is however is more objective and doesn't lie. Somali history and archeology is still under researched so if we want to know more we need to dig those graves and put everything back in place once we are finished.
Somalis don't give an f. anyways, most of the historical sites in both s/land and somalia are neglected and almost forgotten.
Opening the grave is considered a desecration, at least by Somalis.
 

Som

VIP
Are there actually human remains in shaykh darood and shaykh isaaqs tombs though? Maybe the tombs are empty, but someone should at least looked it up
@Factz
 

Som

VIP
haram bro.
Bro, I don't think it's haram if you do it for research purposes without destroying stuff.
Also many of the grave sites like aw barkhadle have pre islamic tombs and i think it's only haram to exhume a muslim body. Egyptians do it all the time with mummies
 

Som

VIP
Opening the grave is considered a desecration, at least by Somalis.
Anyway if we can't exhume skeletal remains at least someone should make serious excavations to find the alleged towns and cities many european explorers talk about. Cadaan explorers im the 19th century said there is clear indication of complex civilizations in northern somalia, yet the evidence is tiny. We only have some ancient pottery, some cairns, and some building remains.
 
Bro, I don't think it's haram if you do it for research purposes without destroying stuff.
Also many of the grave sites like aw barkhadle have pre islamic tombs and i think it's only haram to exhume a muslim body. Egyptians do it all the time with mummies
Egyptians constantly dig up mummies because they are Arab and the Ancient Egypt was an African nation. They work with the Europeans to constantly violate, rob and dig up ancient Egyptian Kings; they are not from the land so they don't give a fu*ck.

With us Somalis this issue should be decided by a vote (I will vote no) simply because I am sure I am not a descendant of no Arab and don't care to know further. Those resources are needed for the country. Only if we become so advanced and bored, I would not care.

At this stage however, forget about it saxib.
 
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Villainess

smooth talk on a rainy summer evening
Bro, I don't think it's haram if you do it for research purposes without destroying stuff.
Also many of the grave sites like aw barkhadle have pre islamic tombs and i think it's only haram to exhume a muslim body. Egyptians do it all the time with mummies
it is haram. stop comparing us to the Egyptians. they kill their own daughters, what makes you think they have respect for the dead?
 

Som

VIP
it is haram. stop comparing us to the Egyptians. they kill their own daughters, what makes you think they have respect for the dead?
Somalis do crazy shit all the time. Studying ancient tombs is certainly not on the top 10 crazy stuff somalis do to each other on a daily basis
 

Villainess

smooth talk on a rainy summer evening
Somalis do crazy shit all the time. Studying ancient tombs is certainly not on the top 10 crazy stuff somalis do to each other on a daily basis
doesn't change the fact that its haram and against our morals
 

Som

VIP
Egyptians constantly dig up mummies because they are Arab and the Ancient Egypt was an African nation. They work with the Europeans to constantly violate, rob and dig up ancient Egyptian Kings; they are not from the land so they don't give a fu*ck.

With us Somalis this issue should be decided by a vote (I will vote no) simply because I am sure I am not a descendant of no Arab and don't care to know further. Those resources are needed for the country. Only if we become so advanced and bored, I would not care.

At this stage however, forget about it saxib.
I get what you are saying. I know we don't have the resources but soon some foreign archeologist may come and ask permission to dig. They will bribe some random SL or Somalia politician and they will have licenses. I would prefer if somali researchers did this instead maybe with UNESCO funds. I'm not taky about wasting billions of dollars, just a small research
Anyway it's not just about finding out if the tombs are arab ,somali or whatever, it's about finding out about our past.Somalis are a people with an ancient history, but we don't have a strong national historical consciousness. If somalis found an ancient heritage that can unite us our country will benefit. Look at Ethopians, they have been united for so many centuries because they believe in their common heritage. Many nations were born specifically because people realized they had a common history.
 

Som

VIP
doesn't change the fact that its haram and against our morals
Is there any exception for very ancient non muslim graves?
I'll highly appreciate if you have any sources saying exhuming graves for research activities is haram. If it's Always haram then khalas, but at least let's dig around these archeological places and find out about our history before it's too late. Somali heritage is endangered by looters and neglect
 

Villainess

smooth talk on a rainy summer evening
Is there any exception for very ancient non muslim graves?
I'll highly appreciate if you have any sources saying exhuming graves for research activities is haram. If it's Always haram then khalas, but at least let's dig around these archeological places and find out about our history before it's too late. Somali heritage is endangered by looters and neglect
The only times a body can be moved is if there is no space for a new body and it became dust or if there is a dispute amongst the land ownership. look

"According to the consensus of the scholars of our school of Fiqh, it is impermissible to exhume the grave for a reason that is not acceptable according to the Sharia. It is allowed only due to Sharia-acceptable reasons, as has been underlined earlier. In brief, it is permissible to exhume the grave if the deceased has completely decomposed and become dust. In that case, it is permissible to bury another body in it, and it is permissible to cultivate that land and all other means of benefiting from it... All of this applies if no trace of the body is left, whether bones or otherwise. But if it is necessary to bury another body in the same grave before the first one has decomposed, then it is permissible." [Al-Majmoo‘]

Ibn Qudaamah
 may  Allaah  have  mercy  upon  him
said, "(Imaam) Ahmad was asked about exhuming the grave and moving the dead body to another grave. He replied, 'It is allowed if there is harm to the dead body (in the first grave); the bodies of Talhah and ‘Aa'ishah were moved from their places...'" [Al-Mughni]
Al-Maawardi
 may  Allaah  have  mercy  upon  him
said, "If a body is buried in a land owned by a person without his permission, then the area where he is buried is considered to have been unjustly taken from its legitimate owner. Ash-Shaafi‘i held that it is disliked to move the body because this violates the sanctity of the dead person. But if he moved it, it is permissible for him to do so." [Al-Haawi]
 

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