How you guys feel about Affirmative Action?

[Lsma]

Lets say to get into medical school you need an average GPA of 3.8 or higher. Its even across the board for everyone.

But affirmative action policy come ins and requires a black person or native american can get in with a GPA as low as 2.8.

But get this, say that black student with GPA of 2.8 gets into medical school and flunks out. How does Affirmative Action help in this case? all it did was waste space and resources, when a qualified asian or white student could have gotten in.

Personally, I think Affirmative action should be banned. The best person should get the job or get accepted into the best schools.

Discuss

 

[GeKo]

I'm totally against it, the person will feel like an imposter, unworthy, and unmotivated if things get tough. They develop imposter syndrome.
Others will doubt the person's capabilities, and only reinforce negative stereotypes that blacks suck academically and can only make it through with affirmative action.
Imo, Affirmative action wasn't to create more equality, but to create more inequality and they know this but hide this fact.
Want to create more equality? Start with providing the same quality of public education from elementary to secondary in all neighborhoods, rich/poor/black/white.

 

[Desert Flower]

I'm totally against it, the person will feel like an imposter, unworthy, and unmotivated if things get tough. They develop imposter syndrome.
Others will doubt the person's capabilities, and only reinforce negative stereotypes that blacks suck academically and can only make it through with affirmative action.
Imo, Affirmative action wasn't to create more equality, but to create more inequality and they know this but hide this fact.
Want to create more equality? Start with providing the same quality of public education from elementary to secondary in all neighborhoods, rich/poor/black/white.

Long-term plans, are what those are. And in the US, public schools are funded mainly by property tax. So wealthier neighbourhoods end up having better schools (because they are better funded) vs. low-income neighbourhoods.

 

[Bahal]

That's why I request a different doc if he's black

 

[GeKo]

Long-term plans, are what those are. And in the US, public schools are funded mainly by property tax. So wealthier neighbourhoods end up having better schools (because they are better funded) vs. low-income neighbourhoods.

Municipal gov't should cap the rest of the funding, so as to give everyone the same public school experience but that won't happen though. Public schools should be funded using other means that would be fairer to low income students. Do you agree with affirmative action?

 

[OmarLittle]

I'm against it. Everyone should enter a college/university at the minimum standard, no exceptions for anyone.

I know that East Asians are suing ivy league colleges like Harvard and the Department of Justice with Jeff Sessions is also investigating them.

The racial makeup shouldn't matter of any place. If blacks and Hispanics aren't doing well as whites and Asians, then they need improve themselves (and the government) - not take the easy way in.

It also taints the qualified Blacks and Hispanics as unqualified.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Until both the Left and the Right get real about the elephant in the room (race-based differences in IQ), all discussions about educational reform, closing the black-white achievement gap, and affirmative action vs meritocracy are just a waste of time.

 

[Lsma]

The intent of affirmative action is to equal the playing field

The playing field is already equal. IF you do good, you get in.

for marginalized groups that have historically faced discrimination during the hiring and application process

Ah, why bring out the past? No one is getting discriminated in the present but Asians and Whites because of AA policy.

We don't have AA in Canada

Despite them being stupid liberal -- Canada is smart in this case

if we did then I would be for it because it allows minorities and underrepresented groups to have a fair chance at admissions, in the case for med school. Yes, one should work hard, be ambitious and motivated, but sometimes there are barriers that certain groups face, and those should be acknowledged.

I can tell you're a socialology major lmao

 

[OmarLittle]

Until both Left and the Right get real about the elephant in the room (race-based differences in IQ), all discussions about education, the achievement gap, affirmative action and meritocracy are just a waste of time.

Oh shit, lmao. You have touch something that is going to cause riots my friend.


Anyways, I joke about this a lot, but have they done many trials of these tests to come to a censuses?

 

[Desert Flower]

I'm against it. Everyone should enter a college/university at the minimum standard, no exceptions for anyone.

I know that East Asians are suing ivy league colleges like Harvard and the Department of Justice with Jeff Sessions is also investigating them.

The racial makeup shouldn't matter of any place. If blacks and Hispanics aren't doing well as whites and Asians, then they need improve themselves (and the government) - not take the easy way in.

It also taints the qualified Blacks and Hispanics as unqualified.

Side note: I love Omar from The Wire.

Is AA abused in the US? Why the backlash? Although I agree that there shouldn't be a lower GPA requirement because of race. However, schools and employers should look at the barriers that certain groups have to jump through in order to be qualified. I wish I could say that working hard is the best way to go (which it is most of the time), but sometimes you have to acknowledge that some groups are at a disadvantage, and until they are on-par with everyone else, AA should remain. At least that is my interpretation of what AA is, unless there is something else to it.

 

[OmarLittle]

Side note: I love Omar from The Wire.

Is AA abused in the US? Why the backlash? Although I agree that there shouldn't be a lower GPA requirement because of race. However, schools and employers should look at the barriers that certain groups have to jump through in order to be qualified. I wish I could say that working hard is the best way to go (which it is most of the time), but sometimes you have to acknowledge that some groups are at a disadvantage, and until they are on-par with everyone else, AA should remain. At least that is my interpretation of what AA is, unless there is something else to it.

I don't think many people in general would care about pushing diversity in the work/school places if they're qualified, however I have seen studies and news articles of Blacks & Hispanics getting into ivy league colleges without the minimum standard. Also, East Asians were over-looked the most of all groups.

 

[Lsma]

Nope, Bio/Psych major.

I'm empathetic towards others, that's all.

Heres your problem. You're bringing emotions into topic that requires reasoning and logic.

 

[Desert Flower]

Heres your problem. You're bringing emotions into topic that requires reasoning and logic.

And you say that as if it is a bad thing.

 

[Lsma]

And you say that as if that is a bad thing.

It is a bad thing; you care for people who want to be accepted into university just because their skin color.

What happened to Equality?

MLK " I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

Almost 60 years, they are being judged by the color of their skin but this time its for their benefit.

Irony

 

[OmarLittle]

TBH, I am on the fence with AA. In Canada, they don't even collect race-based data, so no one knows that I am Somali.

So black/hispanics are getting in with sub-par grades? That I can't justify at all. I don't work hard for my grades so that another person can get in nilly willy. But, I guess I am being idealistic when I say that AA should be used as a means to let in qualified people from historically marginalized groups (like they have the same GPA as everyone else, but maybe someone from their cultural background reviews their application because they can identify with the applicant).

Yes, http://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files...erences Espenshade Chung Walling Dec 2004.pdf

Yeah, if there is racism at a school, the AA is justified. However, if unqualified people are being admitted, it will harm everyone.

 

[Desert Flower]

Yes, http://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/files/webAdmission Preferences Espenshade Chung Walling Dec 2004.pdf

Yeah, if there is racism at a school, the AA is justified. However, if unqualified people are being admitted, it will harm everyone.

Interesting:

Conclusions. Elite colleges and universities extend preferences to many types of students, yet affirmative action—the only preference given to underrepresented minority applicants—is the one surrounded by the most controversy.

I wonder why that is?

 

[GeKo]

The intent of affirmative action is to equal the playing field for marginalized groups that have historically faced discrimination during the hiring and application process. We don't have AA in Canada, but if we did then I would be for it because it allows minorities and underrepresented groups to have a fair chance at admissions, in the case for med school. Yes, one should work hard, be ambitious and motivated, but sometimes there are barriers that certain groups face, and those should be acknowledged.

Alhamdulilah for no Afrimative Action in Canada. It doesn't make an equal playing field, it just makes things worse. Only to be used for qualified professionals in hiring to an extent but never in education.

I've seen somali immigrants, who had a hundred barriers but overcame them and got in with scholarships. Working hard and developing the right mindset, culture and environment is the way to get there otherwiset they should not get in, simple.
Let's ask our resident doctor what he thinks? @dr.leorio

 

[GeKo]

That is b/c Somalis don't have the same problems as African Americans, for example. I have been in classes were I was the ONLY Somali/Muslim Woman, and I never felt inferior. I did as good, if not better, than everyone else. That is cuz my Hooyo taught me to work hard and put my trust in Allah.

idk about you but i'd doubt my abilities so hard if if I was admitted thru affirmative action. Constantly telling myself that I made only because of it, and therefore feel inferior as a result. I might've even dropped out.

At the same time, I can understand why AA is there. Though, do y'all feel that unqualified people are taking spots away from you? I mean, if you're working hard and doing well, then what do you have to worry about? Your credentials should speak for themselves.

I couldn't care less, but I know how damaging it is, stats have shown black americans have higher rates of imposter syndrome due to the affirmative action. It's making their situation worse not better.
You said you don't see a problem using emotions in judging instead of logic and reason, so no point in continuing this.

 

[Beja]

It really depends.

A black student with a 3.2 gpa getting chosen over a white student with a 3.5 gpa in the department of engineering isn't an issue. The black students grew up in a society that considers him a savage due to the color of skin and more than likely grew up in poverty, without a father, etc compared to the white student.

But... A black student with a 2.8 gpa shouldn't be chosen over a white student with a 3.8 gpa in the department of medicine. That's a life or death career path and the student with poor grades should've studied harder.

 

[scheinwelt]

In my country they will prefer admitting (e.g.) women at some point to account for gender biases, but only if they have equal qualifications as anyone else applying. Think this is a sensible policy.