How should the Somali nation be shaped?

[ggoat]

What do you believe is the optimal solution for addressing the challenges faced by all Somali citizens? Feel free to advocate for what you perceive as the most advantageous outcome for your qabil. Some argue for tribal nations, citing benefits like community cohesion and shared resources. Do you agree that tribal nations or a confederation offer a viable solution, despite Western skepticism?

In my view, tribal nations or a confederation offer a viable solution, and there's little evidence to suggest otherwise aside from Western narratives. Let's refrain from spreading baseless fears such as Ethiopia's potential takeover or UN opposition. History shows that the UN has supported amicable separations of countries.

Let's engage in constructive dialogue without succumbing to unfounded fears about external interference. Share your thoughts, and feel free to mention your qabil.

 

[chronic]

Federalism

 

[mohammdov]

They will remain just tribes fighting. Nothing will change

 

[ggoat]

They will remain just tribes fighting. Nothing will change

What led you to this conclusion? Could you provide any research papers or studies that support this viewpoint?

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

Federalism is decaying and has no way of solidifying its position. This is exemplified by Puntland self-isolation and protest and the indifference towards SSc.

Centralism is on the rampage and has a path to total victory as long as the rest of the world supports it but that path is very, very narrow and hard to achieve. It's reasonable to doubt the current government or the structure of the FGS, makes it capable of achieving total victory but at least the path is there. The central government can consolidate gains slowly over time pulling even powerful regions under its control.

This makes the possiblity of soveriegn states and confederation very unlikely.

The only other possiblity is the partially recognized state of Somaliland which is not quite a soveriegn state because the central government will never relinquish control but has enough external support and regional and global economic integration to function like an independent soveriegn state.

So in the long term (10 years) it's the central government of Somalia and a partially recongized Somaliland. No federal member states.

 

[Avalanche]

Federalism to balance Somalis' obsession with qabill and nationalism.

 

[ggoat]

Federalism is decaying and has no way of solidifying its position. This is exemplified by Puntland self-isolation and protest and the indifference towards SSc.

Centralism is on the rampage and has a path to total victory as long as the rest of the world supports it but that path is very, very narrow and hard to achieve. It's reasonable to doubt the current government or the structure of the FGS, makes it capable of achieving total victory but at least the path is there. The central government can consolidate gains slowly over time pulling even powerful regions under its control.

This makes the possiblity of soveriegn states and confederation very unlikely.

The only other possiblity is the partially recognized state of Somaliland which is not quite a soveriegn state because the central government will never relinquish control but has enough external support and regional and global economic integration to function like an independent soveriegn state.

So in the long term (10 years) it's the central government of Somalia and a partially recongized Somaliland. No federal member states.

All your points seem to advocate for centralism, which benefits external actors. We're seeking internal solutions that prioritize the well-being of the people. Have you been brainwashed by the imperialist powers? please reflect and ask yourself that question

 

[Itsnotthateasy]

All your points seem to advocate for centralism, which benefits external actors. We're seeking internal solutions that prioritize the well-being of the people. Have you been brainwashed by the imperialist powers? please reflect and ask yourself that question

You asked how should the Somali state be shaped. I answered how it looks like things are going. Federal states have the most grassroots support and are a stable form of political organization but in the long run they are facing a behemoth and slowly their autonomy is going to be chipped away.

 

[Avalanche]

The problem is not federalism itself. The reason it looks so weak today is that we have not come together as a country. Reconciliation is needed first and then a common constitution.

 

[Yusuf M]

I support Puntland becoming independent sovereign nation. But if that's not possible, then I'd pick confederation as the second best option.

 

[Bazed]

Ideally federalism with foreign relations and national services liked education, security and health sector in central hands. However states should be allowed to form their own state policies much like how American states do.

 

[Aseer]

A semi direct democratic federal Republic none of the 4.5 qabiilist federalism shit, a legislative branch the somali federal assembly which consists of the national council that represents the people (we have to heavily favour the people in order to function) and a council of gobols (states) and then the executive branch which should consist of 7 to 8 members the spots filled by major clans who then under them break down into subclans managing it and then the rest to minorities and the executive branch is elected by the federal assembly which the people TRUST because they elected those guys and then we have the judiciary branch, we should emphasise on provincialism rather than clanism and host reconciliation and then incentivise all the clans to work on their own gobols (passive aggressive competition instead of killing each other they all focus on being richer than the other) and also this system would be more resistant to corruption and add on anti corruption measures it could significantly reduce that from happening from there we stabilise and develop and get comfy with this new system which will bring us many economic development and benefits.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

A combination between federalism and Unitary, I dont know why Somali people cant accept this all wanting a shitty plot of land in useless red desertA


Unitary vs Federal map from wikipedia:

Green is federal whilist blue is unitary, If Congo with millions of ethnic groups can pull it off why cant we? It makes sense with countries with a lot of ethnic groups and landmass like russia, america and ethiopia but we are 1 people and 1 religion,

This is another good picture from the wikipedia which should be referenced while you vote.

And look, im not saying devolving power is bad, it should be done in smaller regions on a local scale.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Ideally federalism with foreign relations and national services liked education, security and health sector in central hands. However states should be allowed to form their own state policies much like how American states do.

Good thinking, but states are too large and must further be subdivided

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

All your points seem to advocate for centralism, which benefits external actors. We're seeking internal solutions that prioritize the well-being of the people. Have you been brainwashed by the imperialist powers? please reflect and ask yourself that question

how does advocating for centralism benefit external actors? In which way are your brain cells connecting to come to that absolutely silly and baseless conclusion. Before I fully dive into debunking that silly posting, I want to see if you are willing to change

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

You know I would like to see how fucking failed Somalia would be if we divided into 5 seperate desert shit holes whilist you all pray for oil, a dying resource durr d, At least we would get an award for most states split between one ethnicity with one religion.

You know how it should be shaped? Full Centralist Unitary Military Dictatorship which will peacefully transisition into a proper government with centralism and federalism on a local scale like China and other proper countries.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

What do you believe is the optimal solution for addressing the challenges faced by all Somali citizens? Feel free to advocate for what you perceive as the most advantageous outcome for your qabil. Some argue for tribal nations, citing benefits like community cohesion and shared resources. Do you agree that tribal nations or a confederation offer a viable solution, despite Western skepticism?

In my view, tribal nations or a confederation offer a viable solution, and there's little evidence to suggest otherwise aside from Western narratives. Let's refrain from spreading baseless fears such as Ethiopia's potential takeover or UN opposition. History shows that the UN has supported amicable separations of countries.

Let's engage in constructive dialogue without succumbing to unfounded fears about external interference. Share your thoughts, and feel free to mention your qabil.

Somalis being the unique they are, one must seek a unique system of governance, which befits their current state, if responds to their needs, whilst satisfying three distinct groups:

a) Centralists:

• HS & GM, albeit I am convinced GM will eventually join the federalist camp, once it had:
  • Its human capital relocated from Xamar,
  • Secured self-sufficiency.

b) Federalists:

• PL and JL, and eventually:
  • SW once it had taken control of its territories, and
  • Khatumo post its Interim status in a year or so.

c) Confederacy:

• SL, which will be independent managing its affairs, as it does, till time has come to settle the matter.

Now, what would be such a system?

 

[ImAi]

What led you to this conclusion? Could you provide any research papers or studies that support this viewpoint?

I share the same view as him, you don’t need scholarly evidence as we’ve seen it in real life. The clans are united because they are fighting other clans or they perceive they are under threat, once you remove that they turn on each other. Just like in the 90s/2000s where almost every clan had intra-squabbles. Do you think people have changed a bit and moved on from that?

 

[Zak12]

For those supporting federalism, how many federal states should there be? Or are the ones we have now good enough?

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Somalis being the unique they are, one must seek a unique system of governance, which befits their current state, if responds to their needs, whilst satisfying three distinct groups:

a) Centralists:

• HS & GM, albeit I am convinced GM will eventually join the federalist camp, once it had:
  • Its human capital relocated from Xamar,
  • Secured self-sufficiency.

b) Federalists:

• PL and JL, and eventually:
  • SW once it had taken control of its territories, and
  • Khatumo post its Interim status in a year or so.

c) Confederacy:

• SL, which will be independent managing its affairs, as it does, till time has come to settle the matter.

Now, what would be such a system?

a non existent system,