How long should a girl and guy be talking?

[PrincessBBG<3]

I just got news that a somali friend from high school is getting married soon. From what I heard it went the traditional route. Guy liked girl, went to her fam for her hand, fam asked girl, and girl accepted. This marriage made me remember a convo I had. I have always told my friends that 6 months- 1 yr is enough for the talking stage/ getting to know stage. After that a life decision needs to be made. Either you proceed with engagement/ marriage or you drop the guy. Sometimes I'll hear from girls that they have been talking to someone 2 yrs, 3 yrs, and there was an outrageous one that said 7 years (since high school to mid 20s)

If you haven't made a decision within 6 months - 1 yr, then you're just string along the person or you're being stung along. I stand by what I said

Talking stage should last maximum 3-6 months and that’s only asking important questions. Sorry walaal but idc about your fav color you can tell me when we get married

 

[onthecloud]

A few weeks is fine if you talk about your values from the beginning.

 

[onthecloud]

An advanced degree or two. Essentially comparable to me. Its easier that way.

You wouldn't consider a man with an undergraduate degree even if they were successful professionally and book smart and intelligent?

 

[Abdisamad]

I'll say 6-8 years then you know she's committed as well as get to really know her on a deeper level..

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Sophisticate]

You wouldn't consider a man with an undergraduate degree even if they were successful professionally and book smart and intelligent?

Probably not at this juncture in my life.

I know enough of those. Its best to limit the pool much further. Also, most guys that approach me have graduate degrees.

 

[Dualke]

I don't nor have I ever talked to anyone beyond a year. I have to see someone's frame of mind and if they are the right fit. My exclusion criteria is long. Men to avoid are:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

When you refer to byproducts of polygamy, do you include grandparents or anyone prior?

 

[Man with a garuun]

Many here don't take qadr into account. You can talk as much, but if the person isn't predestined for you to have a life with, you won't tie the knot.

FYI: For Muslims, please put eman before anything else. This is essentially what sustains Muslim families.

 

[Bundasliga]

Doesn't matter how long you talk to someone, you'll never get to see their real self until you live with them 24/7/365.

 

[Sophisticate]

When you refer to byproducts of polygamy, do you include grandparents or anyone prior?

No. Parents only.
I cannot allow a halal swinger as a father in law.

What if his son gets bitten by the same polygamous bug in midlife or seniorhood after a solo vacation stay in the mother land?

 

[GaradShabeel]

Doesn't matter how long you talk to someone, you'll never get to see their real self until you live with them 24/7/365.

You believe in cohabitation prior to marriage?

 

[Sophisticate]

You believe in cohabitation prior to marriage?

No he means that during the courtship phase people often lead with their representatives by showing themselves through mostly positive portrayals. You'll get an undiluted version once you are married to them for some time.

 

[GaradShabeel]

No he means that during the courtship phase people often lead with their representatives by showing themselves through mostly positive portrayals. You'll get an undiluted version once you are married to them for some time.

It's part of your job during the dating stage to use your investigative skills and get acquainted with the real life of your suitor, outside of what you're being sold to. Which includes but not limited to asking their (preferably childhood) friends, parents, current/former co-workers, neighbors etc. You name it, and explore amongst both people you deem as biased respective unbiased towards what could be your future spouse.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[cars]

I think clan is reasonable for me and it falls within my specific value system. A man from my clan has the same Somali political beliefs, micro-culture, likely has a similar interest in our clan history and is someone I can feel confident taking to our ancestral cities and investing as well. I can also, get more intel. That and knowing his family makes things a lot easier.

While it is true that marrying within the same qabil does come with benefits, it is important to realize the disadvantages, both personally and on a societal level to marrying within the same qabil.

For one, especially in western diasporas when there is likely a different mix of qabils who immigrated from Somalia, restricting future partners based on qabil may mean that partners who would otherwise meet ones conditions would be rejected, and one may have to choose a partner with the same qabil at the expense of having a partner that may not meet other values or criteria one is looking for in a spouse.

Furthermore, on a societal level, if Somalis tend to marry within the same qabil, this can lead to less healthy offspring in the long term. We don't think about this on a personal level since genetic evolution takes place over centuries and millennia, way too long to see the consequences within ones own lifetime, but marrying within the same qabil over multiple generations restricts the possible genetic variations to a much smaller subset of Somalis. Such lack of genetic variation will lead to increased genetic diseases and decrease the likelihood of obtaining favorable traits that may allow future generations to adapt to their environment. And if Somalis inherit worse genetic traits than other ethnicities, this could lead to Somalis having a greater likelihood of extinction over the long run. However, such downsides do not matter if a small minority of Somalis marry within the same qabil, as even if a few generations intermarry within the same qabil, future offspring may make future offspring more genetically diverse by choosing to marry within a different qabil. Rather, the problem arises when there is a significant social, political or cultural barrier to marrying with a different qabil, and a majority of Somalis marry the same qabil, which may result in several generations of intermarriage within the same qabil.

Now, my point isn't necessarily that you shouldn't restrict your marriage prospects to people with the same qabil, I am merely highlighting the disadvantages of a group practicing such acts. As you've said, there are plenty of political and social benefits to marrying within the same qabil, and they may, rightfully so, outweigh the cons listed above. Rather, my argument is that Somalis as a group need to change the political, social and cultural landscape in Somalia in a way such that qabil should not matter to people in an everyday sense. Qabil is important in a nomadic way of living, as people need a way to easily know who is a friend they can trust or a foe that may kill them. However in a modern society, this is unnecessary, and the fact that Somali politics is heavily based on ones patrilineality - who their great ancestors were - as opposed to what their political agenda is and what policies they support are, can arguably be seen as the single most reason as to why Somalia is so far behind the rest of the world. And while you can't fully control this as an individual, it is important to realize that valuing qabil in your life in such a way that it controls your marriage prospects does mean that you are, in a way, continuing to support continuing such a hyper tribalist culture for the future.

 

[Sophisticate]

While it is true that marrying within the same qabil does come with benefits, it is important to realize the disadvantages, both personally and on a societal level to marrying within the same qabil.

For one, especially in western diasporas when there is likely a different mix of qabils who immigrated from Somalia, restricting future partners based on qabil may mean that partners who would otherwise meet ones conditions would be rejected, and one may have to choose a partner with the same qabil at the expense of having a partner that may not meet other values or criteria one is looking for in a spouse.

Furthermore, on a societal level, if Somalis tend to marry within the same qabil, this can lead to less healthy offspring in the long term. We don't think about this on a personal level since genetic evolution takes place over centuries and millennia, way too long to see the consequences within ones own lifetime, but marrying within the same qabil over multiple generations restricts the possible genetic variations to a much smaller subset of Somalis. Such lack of genetic variation will lead to increased genetic diseases and decrease the likelihood of obtaining favorable traits that may allow future generations to adapt to their environment. And if Somalis inherit worse genetic traits than other ethnicities, this could lead to Somalis having a greater likelihood of extinction over the long run. However, such downsides do not matter if a small minority of Somalis marry within the same qabil, as even if a few generations intermarry within the same qabil, future offspring may make future offspring more genetically diverse by choosing to marry within a different qabil. Rather, the problem arises when there is a significant social, political or cultural barrier to marrying with a different qabil, and a majority of Somalis marry the same qabil, which may result in several generations of intermarriage within the same qabil.

Now, my point isn't necessarily that you shouldn't restrict your marriage prospects to people with the same qabil, I am merely highlighting the disadvantages of a group practicing such acts. As you've said, there are plenty of political and social benefits to marrying within the same qabil, and they may, rightfully so, outweigh the cons listed above. Rather, my argument is that Somalis as a group need to change the political, social and cultural landscape in Somalia in a way such that qabil should not matter to people in an everyday sense. Qabil is important in a nomadic way of living, as people need a way to easily know who is a friend they can trust or a foe that may kill them. However in a modern society, this is unnecessary, and the fact that Somali politics is heavily based on ones patrilineality - who their great ancestors were - as opposed to what their political agenda is and what policies they support are, can arguably be seen as the single most reason as to why Somalia is so far behind the rest of the world. And while you can't fully control this as an individual, it is important to realize that valuing qabil in your life in such a way that it controls your marriage prospects does mean that you are, in a way, continuing to support continuing such a hyper tribalist culture for the future.

- I fail to see how a singular choice has any societal ramifications. To my knowledge my clan did not destroy Somalia, we aren't qabilist and valuing ones lineage or history does not mean you disparage others so give me a break.
- Qabil mixing is not new nor is it a panacea. It happens all the time. It hasn't thwarted conflict between Somalis. Better yet the most tribalist Somalis tend to come from such unions.
- I don't expect Somalis to change nor am I offering any sort of political options or alternatives to what they have in place. I won't marry out of my Qabil and I won't be guilted by some anon. Who thinks exogamous clan marriage will save the country. That is overly simplistic and Pollyanna thinking.
- You forget that prior to colonialism clans governed themselves.
- A man that matches my criteria within my qabil is my choice. I don't like to talk to men blindly without that information a priori.
- Considering Somalis are very familiar with their qabil networks even abroad I see no issue.
- Tribal networks provide much more detailed information about prospects and serve as a better pre-screen.
-As for settlement or dispersed clan geographies across diasporas that doesn't matter in a transnational world where people can meet online or be introduced via families.
- There are no health implications from marrying your clan. Why do you make a leap in logic by assuming they are closely related? That is untrue.
- My grandparents are all Gadabuursi. I see no issue with that and according to homozygosity calculators my parents are unrelated and quite distant. We did not have a history of inbreeding. I can't speak for other Somali groups.

@Arkan