how are somalis in europe and north america currently doing school? how can we emulate the success of model minorities?

[MalcolmFitzhugh08]

The best fields. Nursing is the most stable. I have a lot of family members as nurses and they travel the world regularly. Also the ones in tech and finance are doing well. So are the lawyer ones.

If you come to Canada you will see a lot of Somalis in engineering. But we need more in law and different stem/health related jobs. Inshallah the millennial generation and gen z parents I have seen are more stable and hard working. The next gen of Somalis will surpass us. Unless Canadas economy keeps going down the gutter. Maybe it’s bad of me to say but I feel like the golden age of owning a home has gone and renting costs so much.

same most my family members are either in tech or nursing I'm just saying we have to think outside the box not that it's a bad career path

 

[Juliet]

qoorman Ethiopian noqday kkk

"Qoorman" bahahahahahaaaaa

CLOCKED

It's ok man, just come out, ajnabis are ok here as long as your not larping and you're respectful of us. @Nilotic is a much loved member and he's proud South Sudanese

 

[MalcolmFitzhugh08]

"Qoorman" bahahahahahaaaaa

CLOCKED

what habashi can speak Somali lol despite my spelling mistake I still ain't a habashi.

 

[The truth seeker]

Nigerians are very successful in the UK, whether in education or jobs, so Somalis should copy them tbh.

Do you folks have something similar to an American dream where every immigrant owns there own house, car, and retires in a costal country

Most Immigrants from Ireland , Cuba,Asia/Middle East in America become financially successful and send money to there home nation

 

[Jaale Ugaas]

As Somalis join the middle class in america large Somali populations in major cities like Columbus, Minneapolis, Saint Paul etc etc should form after school community centers to educate kids on their cultural heritage, language, and religion as well as nurture the next generation of somalis and to teach them proper manners and etiquette. This will help to eliminate future gangbangers or other criminals or deadbeats from the equation. Academically gifted children would possibly attend prestigious colleges with funding from the local community. athletes could train there and be scouted as young talents, but it would also serve as a venue for middle class and maybe even upper class Somalis to network with each other and build longlasting partnerships as well as to kick-start and fundraiser for projects worked on by Somalis, give out loans to business owners hell we could form a pac to donate to somali or pro somali politicans like how the yahuud use aipac as a vehicle for their interests.

We should emulate the indho yar and yahuud who have risen to economic, social and political prominence in a short span of time.

 

[The truth seeker]

As Somalis join the middle class in america large Somali populations in major cities like Columbus, Minneapolis, Saint Paul etc etc should form after school community centers to educate kids on their cultural heritage, language, and religion as well as nurture the next generation of somalis and to teach them proper manners and etiquette. This will help to eliminate future gangbangers or other criminals or deadbeats from the equation. Academically gifted children would possibly attend prestigious colleges with funding from the local community. athletes could train there and be scouted as young talents, but it would also serve as a venue for middle class and maybe even upper class Somalis to network with each other and build longlasting partnerships as well as to kick-start and fundraiser for projects worked on by Somalis, give out loans to business owners hell we could form a pac to donate to somali or pro somali politicans like how the yahuud use aipac as a vehicle for their interests.

American dream was the standard for all immigrants Somalis need to reset there priorities we are standing on wealth unheard of back home

The diverse climate ,natural resources and combined with ease of doiong business is what makes America great

 

[Jaale Ugaas]

As Somalis join the middle class in america large Somali populations in major cities like Columbus, Minneapolis, Saint Paul etc etc should form after school community centers to educate kids on their cultural heritage, language, and religion as well as nurture the next generation of somalis and to teach them proper manners and etiquette. This will help to eliminate future gangbangers or other criminals or deadbeats from the equation. Academically gifted children would possibly attend prestigious colleges with funding from the local community. athletes could train there and be scouted as young talents, but it would also serve as a venue for middle class and maybe even upper class Somalis to network with each other and build longlasting partnerships as well as to kick-start and fundraiser for projects worked on by Somalis, give out loans to business owners hell we could form a pac to donate to somali or pro somali politicans like how the yahuud use aipac as a vehicle for their interests.

We should emulate the indho yar and yahuud who have risen to economic, social and political prominence in a short span of time.

We already have Ilhan Omar in congress representing MN District 5, I foresee maybe two or three Somali members of congress possibly all democrats. We might even live to see a somali cabinet secretary or WHCOS.

 

[Jaale Ugaas]

is what makes America great

America is the land of opportunity sxb, no better place for social mobility. The child of immigrants and refugees can join the ranks of the wealthy and powerful in a single generation.

 

[The truth seeker]

We already have Ilhan Omar in congress representing MN District 5, I foresee maybe two or three Somali members of congress possibly all democrats. We might even live to see a somali cabinet secretary or WHCOS.

I want a Ross Perot or George Wallace in power so we finally have common sense in washington economicly speaking don’t care about there race


Kennedy was the last democrat I actually liked

 

[Aurelian]

Europe is lame, you can't become the model immigrant, in nordic europe, Somalis are one of the most hated ethnic group after Romani and maybe some arabs. Socially the old generation fell of the race and now unemployable. Somali women are more employed than their counter parts of men. Europe is now in recession, I don't know if that will change, but if it does, maybe in next 10 years you will see more and more Somalis becoming employed in sectors other than cleaning, taxi or nursing. But the future in Europe looks sad.

The lock down and Russia's war made numbers on the economy, no one wants to hire any more, big companies are planning to leave EU, wages stagnate and now severe cuts to social security benefits.

 

[Aurelian]

Active and educated parents seems to be the key to raising successful children.

Most students graduating with stem and finance degrees have educated parents.

Not only that, but committing to having only 3 kids max. Otherwise the parents will need to divide their resources among many offspring.

 

[Devilsadvocate]

Do you folks have something similar to an American dream where every immigrant owns there own house, car, and retires in a costal country

Most Immigrants from Ireland , Cuba,Asia/Middle East in America become financially successful and send money to there home nation

I don’t think there’s a British dream everyone is miserable lol. But people aim to own a house & have a stable job, I guess

 

[The truth seeker]

I don’t think there’s a British dream everyone is miserable lol. But people aim to own a house & have a stable job, I guess

How does the British class system impact social mobility in London

 

[Devilsadvocate]

How does the British class system impact social mobility in London

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[The alchemist]

get what your saying but from my pov Somalis aren't individualistic if we were then we'd have something to show for it rather we are collectivist whether it's in the homeland or diaspora. Our politics or state of governance isn't individualistic either it's still collectivism at its core it's just every clan has a different identity so stick to supporting their people.

No offense, I don't think you understand what collectivism entails. As I said, things would not organize the way they do if we were. If you had seen actual collectivist countries, you'd know how far were from that in the social-cultural sense.

If you've been to the homeland, a camel herder is very individualistic. Our culture derives much from that. Those people are a far cry from collectivists who conform unquestionably through traditional mechanisms of hierarchy and population form.

As I said, we're a mix of things since Somalis are not anarchic either. I will state that individualism as you have in the West, is not ideal, and neither is China or North Korean-style collectivism.

You might conflate human's tendencies to follow trends with what I am describing above or you might go so far as to confuse social communitarian cohesion (a common mechanism for all people with a sense of peoplehood) with the collectivism that is undoubtedly a pejorative in this case.

Despite all that, all of this is different from people going to find secure jobs. The following of social trends have more to do with technology and how human psychology is manipulated. Yet, as I explained the job trends are rational, not mere superficial drivers. Health and technology are the most return for educational investment. That's just the fact.

Trends happen in every society, whether negative or positive and reflect other globalist factors more so than collectivism or individualism these days by virtue of being humans that are conditioned by socialization. We will do certain things similarly. Whether negative or positive, nothing is extreme or uniquely Somalis about it. Neither is it more defined in collectivist countries than liberal ones, which are supposedly so individualistic. Go to America and you'll understand how the average person fits into very broad categories. Thinking is very binary politically compared to Europe, despite being more individualistic.

By default, Ethiopia is more collectivist than Somalis by far. Those people have narrowed expression to the degree that different ethnic groups seem indistinguishable from each other. What's the difference between a Hadiya and Kambata, you can often not know the difference between some of the Omotics and Oromo groups in Gamo other than language. Other than that, they are similar. Go to two separate places among the same Somali group and you will not have much agreement.

The only reason I take the time to write this is because I often see users here reduce Somalis to some follower group. And then they proceed by stating typical trend social media bullshit everyone on the planet is susceptible to - still, for us, it has to be an exeptionalized phenomenon. They never talk about how we actually are offscreen which is a balance between individual projection and certain collectivist virtues so as to make an ethnic identity in the diaspora functional. If we did not have that we'd be dissolving to the masses. And you're not about to call Somalis mindless collectivists because they actually pick rational education and job pipelines for long-term gains. We're not having that, my guy.

We're getting to the heart of the problem. Often times we see extreme attribution put on Somalis. "Somalis can't have a functioning society because every man thinks he's a king." The next day, "Somalis are too collectivists." None of those claims are sensible and neither are they grounded in truth. But notice both are extreme of each other. This is because people are ignorant of how Somalis actually operate and that their true organizational and individual capacity is a function of how Somalis were always a complex form of something in the middle that could harness collectivism yet be very independent.

That's why I am saying such characterization not only is nonsensical but it is harmful because it creates false attitudes toward what drives choices, potentially creating a new tirade of self-hatred among the users here about how every Somali is a conforming fool without any thinking (which, let's be honest, is what you're implying). For example, the error you made about where Somalis tend to go for in the job market. You assumed their choices were more based on mindless trends rather than a smart heuristic calculation that such choices yield the best pay for stability, which reveals your negative biases towards Somalis. That is why I had to correct you as you started talking about untrue justifications for your biases, namely that we're too collectivistic without qualifying it. When they make good choices, ah, now they just do it for collectivism instead of giving credit how that is smart. Tell me if that is not some hater language.

It reminds me of how white supremacists always assumed the worst in Blacks so they they never gave them credit for the reason that they fundamentally looked down upon them. Even when they did good, it was because of a bad reason or they did not get credit. While if a white guy had done it; well, he was an intelligent rational actor who made good actionable choices. For Somalis, we're just conforming stupidly, the choices we made that were good and intelligent, somehow cannot be from the consequence of our independent thinking. They merely reflect our tendencies for uncritical group drive, nothing more. But if we're too disconfirming, cannot have a broad political will, well now, we're unruly savages. This game of impossibility is often played on this forum. It's nasty because it treats Somalis as inhuman people. Someone always is going to read the worst things even when positive. Instead of realizing how you made an error knowing those jobs are best and safest for the future, you doubled down. You have to have some self-reflection.

And this is not about you only (I would not write this much if this was a one-time individual thing), this is a common trope I have seen here over time. It stems from self-hate, or if you're not Somali, hate.

 

[The truth seeker]

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Here in Florida people in trade jobs make more than most financial entry positions

I know a Mexican buddy form high school served in Iraq and became an electrician he now makes 80k a year and vacations in the Caribbean

 

[LilBang]

same most my family members are either in tech or nursing I'm just saying we have to think outside the box not that it's a bad career path

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[Devilsadvocate]

Here in Florida people in trade jobs make more than most financial entry positions

I know a Mexican buddy form high school served in Iraq and became an electrician he now makes 80k a year and vacations in the Caribbean

Spoiler

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[MalcolmFitzhugh08]

No offense, I don't think you understand what collectivism entails. As I said, things would not organize the way they do if we were. If you had seen actual collectivist countries, you'd know how far were from that in the social-cultural sense.

If you've been to the homeland, a camel herder is very individualistic. Our culture derives much from that. Those people are a far cry from collectivists who conform unquestionably through traditional mechanisms of hierarchy and population form.

As I said, we're a mix of things since Somalis are not anarchic either. I will state that individualism as you have in the West, is not ideal, and neither is China or North Korean-style collectivism.

You might conflate human's tendencies to follow trends with what I am describing above or you might go so far as to confuse social communitarian cohesion (a common mechanism for all people with a sense of peoplehood) with the collectivism that is undoubtedly a pejorative in this case.

Despite all that, all of this is different from people going to find secure jobs. The following of social trends have more to do with technology and how human psychology is manipulated. Yet, as I explained the job trends are rational, not mere superficial drivers. Health and technology are the most return for educational investment. That's just the fact.

Trends happen in every society, whether negative or positive and reflect other globalist factors more so than collectivism or individualism these days by virtue of being humans that are conditioned by socialization. We will do certain things similarly. Whether negative or positive, nothing is extreme or uniquely Somalis about it. Neither is it more defined in collectivist countries than liberal ones, which are supposedly so individualistic. Go to America and you'll understand how the average person fits into very broad categories. Thinking is very binary politically compared to Europe, despite being more individualistic.

By default, Ethiopia is more collectivist than Somalis by far. Those people have narrowed expression to the degree that different ethnic groups seem indistinguishable from each other. What's the difference between a Hadiya and Kambata, you can often not know the difference between some of the Omotics and Oromo groups in Gamo other than language. Other than that, they are similar. Go to two separate places among the same Somali group and you will not have much agreement.

The only reason I take the time to write this is because I often see users here reduce Somalis to some follower group. And then they proceed by stating typical trend social media bullshit everyone on the planet is susceptible to - still, for us, it has to be an exeptionalized phenomenon. They never talk about how we actually are offscreen which is a balance between individual projection and certain collectivist virtues so as to make an ethnic identity in the diaspora functional. If we did not have that we'd be dissolving to the masses. And you're not about to call Somalis mindless collectivists because they actually pick rational education and job pipelines for long-term gains. We're not having that, my guy.

We're getting to the heart of the problem. Often times we see extreme attribution put on Somalis. "Somalis can't have a functioning society because every man thinks he's a king." The next day, "Somalis are too collectivists." None of those claims are sensible and neither are they grounded in truth. But notice both are extreme of each other. This is because people are ignorant of how Somalis actually operate and that their true organizational and individual capacity is a function of how Somalis were always a complex form of something in the middle that could harness collectivism yet be very independent.

That's why I am saying such characterization not only is nonsensical but it is harmful because it creates false attitudes toward what drives choices, potentially creating a new tirade of self-hatred among the users here about how every Somali is a conforming fool without any thinking (which, let's be honest, is what you're implying). For example, the error you made about where Somalis tend to go for in the job market. You assumed their choices were more based on mindless trends rather than a smart heuristic calculation that such choices yield the best pay for stability, which reveals your negative biases towards Somalis. That is why I had to correct you as you started talking about untrue justifications for your biases, namely that we're too collectivistic without qualifying it. When they make good choices, ah, now they just do it for collectivism instead of giving credit how that is smart. Tell me if that is not some hater language.

It reminds me of how white supremacists always assumed the worst in Blacks so they they never gave them credit for the reason that they fundamentally looked down upon them. Even when they did good, it was because of a bad reason or they did not get credit. While if a white guy had done it; well, he was an intelligent rational actor who made good actionable choices. For Somalis, we're just conforming stupidly, the choices we made that were good and intelligent, somehow cannot be from the consequence of our independent thinking. They merely reflect our tendencies for uncritical group drive, nothing more. But if we're too disconfirming, cannot have a broad political will, well now, we're unruly savages. This game of impossibility is often played on this forum. It's nasty because it treats Somalis as inhuman people. Someone always is going to read the worst things even when positive. Instead of realizing how you made an error knowing those jobs are best and safest for the future, you doubled down. You have to have some self-reflection.

And this is not about you only (I would not write this much if this was a one-time individual thing), this is a common trope I have seen here over time. It stems from self-hate, or if you're not Somali, hate.

I was just highlighting how they follow eachother in job trends speaking from experience of what I've seen Somalis do irl I wasn't intending to dehumanise or degrade people here. And yes I can agree that the nomads are slightly more individualist due to the nature of their job. You seem like someone who has done research in this subject nice if that's the case.

 

[The truth seeker]

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I chose Florida because the taxes were lower and I opened up a small business California had to much red tape

Tampa is nice costal weather with a beach view and I keep a lot of what I earn plus flights to Latin America are cheap


I dint mean investment bankers I mean entry level positions that pay like 60k worked at one of em before I quit pay was to low and hours to long