Historical Atlas of the Horn

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Hey James , the PHD link you posted is the online reference to Afar Darood I found .

Since you believe the Waliashma were possibly of Ogaden descent , why were the OG not mentioned in any historical documents like the Harti , Marehan , etc ?

 

[James Dahl]

Hey James , the PHD link you posted is the online reference to Afar Darood I found .

Since you believe the Waliashma were possibly of Ogaden descent , why were the OG not mentioned in any historical documents like the Harti , Marehan , etc ?

Well the Futuh doesn't mention Harti either, Marehan are mentioned but there are only three clans that are identifiable today that are mentioned in the Futuh, the Marehan, the Girri and the Habar Makdi (and boy are there debates about that identification).

For others the reference is to a place, like Hobat or Awbarre, and the identification of clan there is similarly debated and complicated.

The Futuh does not linger on clan or tribe, it is a military history, first and foremost. It is interested in the battles, not the background.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Work with me man . I am tryIng to make your thread go plat.

 

[James Dahl]

Haha thanks man, one of the things that inspired me to make this was actually the Futuh which I was reading again recently, I want to use this map to make a map of the campaigns and stuff like that.

 

[GeKo]

Clans are more for alliances then accurate lineages.

Branches of Somali clans have been absorbed by other clans. For example, a branch of the Garre are actually Dir of origin and joined under the Garre branch that are Hawiye.

I met this Oromo man who told me his ancestors were Somali from the Sheikhal clan.

 

[Xaagi-Cagmadigtee]

Claiming historical perspective is one thing. Proving it is a whole new beast. You are full of conjuncture.

Your ignorance of Dir history is abundantly clear. Gurgura, Dir is mentioned in Futuh and they played a prominent role in the Adal-Abyssinia wars. Habar Makdi, also mentioned in Futuh, were Dir.

There are no wholesale assimilation of Dir by Afars, DNA proves you wrong. Dir is overwhelmingly haplogroup T; Afars are E, I do not know their subclades.

Another preposterous statement: Jaberti of Eritrea are same as the Jaberti in Somalia.

 

[James Dahl]

Clans are more for alliances then accurate lineages.

Branches of Somali clans have been absorbed by other clans. For example, a branch of the Garre are actually Dir of origin and joined under the Garre branch that are Hawiye.

I met this Oromo man who told me his ancestors were Somali from the Sheikhal clan.

The truth is a bit of both. Garre for instance all Garre are descended from Xaliimo who was a Hawiye woman, but are not true Hawiye, they are Gardheere Samaale. Garre are in truth a subclan of Garjante (Garre Mataan Riyaale Garjante Riidhe Gardheere Samaale) and are siblings to the mighty Saransoor clan (Degodia, Gaaljecel and Massare) who aren't true Hawiye either.

Another woman provides the Dir connection, Mako Tuuf Deeli Garre was the wife of Quran Maxamed Xanaftire of the Mahe Dir and his two sons Furkesha and Assarree are Dir but considered part of the Garre clan.

A lot of the clans are part of the greater clan alliances through female ancestors and are themselves usually part of smaller clans, but ally themselves along the ancient Somali adage: "Be a Mountain, or Lean on One"

 

[Crow]

@James Dahl
What was Ahmed Gurey's qabiil?

 

[Suárez]

Hey James I noted a mistake from your previous threads but I am not here to derail.

You say Gaalo comes from the word Geel I went to Raxanweyn friend he told me they say Geel, Gaal and caano, waan. A lot of my history research shed some light saying that the Darod and other somali clans used to fight the Oromo who called themselves Galla who were pagans or christians. The somalis cognated the word from Galla to Gaalo.

 

[James Dahl]

Hey James I noted a mistake from your previous threads but I am not here to derail.

You say Gaalo comes from the word Geel I went to Raxanweyn friend he told me they say Geel, Gaal and caano, waan. A lot of my history research shed some light saying that the Darod and other somali clans used to fight the Oromo who called themselves Galla who were pagans or christians. The somalis cognated the word from Galla to Gaalo.

Yeah that was just a theory I was thinking, nothing definitive. The evolution of words and meaning is a fascinating science isn't it

@James Dahl
What was Ahmed Gurey's qabiil?

Based on the research I've come across he was either Karanle Hawiye of the Sixawle Balaw lineage, or the Balaw were a seperate tribe and were absorbed by the Karanle at some point in the last 400 years.

 

[James Dahl]

Claiming historical perspective is one thing. Proving it is a whole new beast. You are full of conjuncture.

Your ignorance of Dir history is abundantly clear. Gurgura, Dir is mentioned in Futuh and they played a prominent role in the Adal-Abyssinia wars. Habar Makdi, also mentioned in Futuh, were Dir.

There are no wholesale assimilation of Dir by Afars, DNA proves you wrong. Dir is overwhelmingly haplogroup T; Afars are E, I do not know their subclades.

Another preposterous statement: Jaberti of Eritrea are same as the Jaberti in Somalia.

I missed this post sorry.

I checked the Futuh, it doesn't mention the Gurgura by name, though indirectly they do as the Gurgura at this time were part of the Dawaro kingdom, under the Dawaro clan of the Jarso. Gurgura probably did have a chief at the time and were a significant clan but the Futuh does not mention them, but they don't mention lots of people.

The identification of Makida with Makador is correct and this is the chief in question: http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=8631 I have never said this is not the case, just that people will argue about it.

There was wholesale assimilation of Dir by Afars, and Oromos, along with every other major Somali tribe, not sure why anyone would still argue otherwise in this day and age. About a quarter of the Afar population in Djibouti have the T male haplogroup according to this study: https://www.docdroid.net/Dedb2N1/fo...n0aafrican-countries-iacovacci-et-al-2016.pdf

 

[Xaagi-Cagmadigtee]

I missed this post sorry.

I checked the Futuh, it doesn't mention the Gurgura by name, though indirectly they do as the Gurgura at this time were part of the Dawaro kingdom, under the Dawaro clan of the Jarso. Gurgura probably did have a chief at the time and were a significant clan but the Futuh does not mention them, but they don't mention lots of people.

The identification of Makida with Makador is correct and this is the chief in question: http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=8631 I have never said this is not the case, just that people will argue about it.

There was wholesale assimilation of Dir by Afars, and Oromos, along with every other major Somali tribe, not sure why anyone would still argue otherwise in this day and age. About a quarter of the Afar population in Djibouti have the T male haplogroup according to this study: https://www.docdroid.net/Dedb2N1/fo...n0aafrican-countries-iacovacci-et-al-2016.pdf

I do not have time to read all 30 pages of your last link, but can you give us a synopsis where it is cited that 25% of Afars have the male haplogroup T?

As for Oromos, yes, several clans, especially Afran Qallu, may have been assimilated that were, arguably, Dir.

Finally, Gurgura, as I read Futuh, are specifically mentioned by name. My clan was not mentioned but we are one of the biggest clans in the Peninsula. We inhabit Djibouti, northern Somaliland/Somalia, Sitti Zone, and Dire Dhabe with our Gurgura cousins. In fact, most, if not all, of my clan members inhabit the same region they did 500 years ago during the Adal Wars.

 

[James Dahl]

I can't find where it mentions Gurgura in the Futuh, do you know which chapter? I can check it when I get home

 

[Xaagi-Cagmadigtee]

Gurgura mentioned in the Conquest of Abyssinia: Pp. 120, 123 and 401.

Share the Afar sample, would you.

 

[Suárez]

I have the Arabic version at my study table. It was a gift from Yemeni guy, its more accurate in the Arabic version.

 

[Cam]

What about Somalized Darod? Did you forget about those guys? Harla and their sub clan darod ruled everything east of axumites and they later annihilated axum.

How is Darod a sub clan of Harla? Do you have any proof?
Also, what is the Harari connection to Darood? If they both have a Harla origin...

I have come to believe that all the Jeberti groups either are Darod, or have some connection to the Darod clan. The ones in Yemen though I don't yet understand the connection. Jeberti was also a term for Darod territory among the Yemeni so the name may mean the descendants of slaves from southern Ethiopia sold in Zeila, which means they are from Jeberti.

Darod used to have a lot more clan branches in the highlands, but almost all of them have been absorbed into Oromo or Afar because of the fallout after the Ahmed Gurey wars, and now identify as either Afar or Oromo. Hawiye and Dir have had whole branches wholesale absorbed into Afar and Oromo as well. I would go so far as to say about a quarter of the Somali nation currently speaks an Oromo language and identifies as Oromo.

It goes the other way as well in that there used to be a lot of small tribes that have been absorbed into Somali.

Could it just a shared name though? I suspect a relation too but that would mean Jeberti's were a standalone group who was assimilated into lots of ethnic groups.

 

[James Dahl]

This could very well be the case, I think a lot of standalone tribes have been absorbed over history.

Xarla has been absorbed into Daarood as Xarla Koombe Kablalax Daarood

 

[Libaaxseendheer]

I found these two Latin maps when I visited the louvre here in abu dhabi the maps depict the horn with Latin names I don't understand, it's 17th century

Intresting he pronounces mayr like that rather than maydh.

 

[Young Popeye]

How is Darod a sub clan of Harla? Do you have any proof?
Also, what is the Harari connection to Darood? If they both have a Harla origin...


Could it just a shared name though? I suspect a relation too but that would mean Jeberti's were a standalone group who was assimilated into lots of ethnic groups.

I didnt say they originate from harla, but they were a sub clan before dir raided them and forced them to speak somali. Once u get raided u make up stories that you just intermarried and life goes on