HELP.

[ina-cilmi]

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A wife actually wants to be married and if she doesn’t, she can get a divorce.

now we're diverting from the topic of forcing oneself upon the slave and whether this is valid according the sharia or not to the topic of consent

also the "beatings" are not those that cause harm. These beatings are those like that with a miswak. If she does not want to have intercourse with him then what most likely would happen would probably be that she gets sold again idk.

point being, there's no proof that one may force themselves upon them from the link you sent

 

[DojaKhat]

no such thing as a "wahhabi" school of thought akh. it's not a madhab. Al-Wahhaab is one of the names of Allah. People use "wahhabi" to insult those who follow the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd-Al-Wahhaab.

a figure I myself do not know much about. But, many scholars I trust have praised him.

I wouldn't agree but there is nothing wrong with what you said and forgive me if I'm wrong but it seems like ur critical of that while this is how it should be no? rejecting innovations and following islam as the salaf did?

If you and @Heavy Mountains insist on debating about the validity of Muhammad ibn Abd Al Wahhab's teachings any further, I'm going to ask you both politely to end it here or take it to the DMs.

I don't want my thread seeking further information on these controversial matters within Islam such as slavery/concubinage to be derailed.

 

[ina-cilmi]

If you and @Heavy Mountains insist on debating about the validity of Muhammad ibn Al Wahhab's teachings any further, I'm going to ask you both politely to end it here or take it to the DMs.

I don't want my thread seeking further information on this controversial matters within Islam such as slavery/concubinage to be derailed.

we'll end it here

 

[DojaKhat]

we won't

Thank you.

 

[Adeer_Boomer]

yep, rape and (wrongly done) slavery are among the ugly realities of war a lot of ppl dont realize due to the life in the west in the 21st century.

makes me think of a story of Americans in vietnam who took ''a teen" girl(according to wikipedia she was 21 but I trust the podcast I listened to more ngl) and the entire squadron took turns raping her except one guy. which happened literally less than a century ago.

or the dirty photos that appeared of what the americans were doing in iraq of torture like this person who was told if he moved or fell off the block he'd be electrocuted. the americans saw this as ''entertainment''

View attachment 328251

Absolutely! Man is evil, and God must intervene to save us from ourselves.
Did you know in Tigray, 100,000 women were raped, I saw one young girl in a documentary say she was raped by 15 men. Imagine the horror?
Muslim men aren't allowed to just rape any woman they find. The idea of having a handful of concubines as opposed to raping any female that moves sounds much better to me. Specially when that man is committed to the wellbeing of that woman. Plus, if she converts to Islam, she automatically becomes a free woman and won't be a concubine any longer. It's not all doom and gloom. That's how the Prophet(SAW) married his jewish wife, I forgot her name. Safiya I think? The jews lost the war, she was one of those captured, she took Islam and the prophet(SAW) married her.
Besides, if all fails, ask yourself what the enemy of gaalo countries would do to your women if lost a war to them.

 

[ina-cilmi]

Absolutely! Man is evil, and God must intervene to save us from ourselves.
Did you know in Tigray, 100,000 women were raped, I saw one young girl in a documentary say she was raped by 15 men. Imagine the horror?
Muslim men aren't allowed to just rape any woman they find. The idea of having a handful of concubines as opposed to raping any female that moves sounds much better to me. Specially when that man is committed to the wellbeing of that woman. Plus, if she converts to Islam, she automatically becomes a free woman and won't be a concubine any longer. It's not all doom and gloom. That's how the Prophet(SAW) married his jewish wife, I forgot her name. Safiya I think? The jews lost the war, she was one of those captured, she took Islam and the prophet(SAW) married her.
Besides, if all fails, ask yourself what the enemy of gaalo countries would do to your women if lost a war to them.

1. as far as I know, safiyya(may Allah be pleased with her) was never a concubine. Rather the prophet ﷺ married her immediately from what I know. He also married her after she became a muslim.

The Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam married Safiyyah and Juwayriyah after they embraced Islam

I was reading about the marriage of Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu 699alayhi wa sallam on the other website and it was mentioned that Juwairiyyah bint Harith and Safiyya bint Huyayy may Allaah be pleased with them both showed hatred towards Islam before marrying the Prophet sallallaahu 699alayhi...

www.islamweb.net

also this below

2. your point about them becoming free if they become muslim is incorrect afaik too. As the right of the mujaahid comes before the right of the slave who afterwards becomes muslim, but ofc it is good to do so.

and it is DEFINITELY GOOD to do so in the case of slave women who become muslim

you make very good points about what the kuffar without morals would do to the women though

 

[Nak-Muay-Femeu]

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[daljirkadahsoon]

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The door is always open to anyone and everyone to come back. ANYONE at ANYTIME no matter what you did.

Deen is not for a 'certain kind of person'. It is not a culture. It is not an aesthetic. The paths to Allah are as many as the leaves on all the trees that ever existed. If something was made a sin, it is because it is not good for you. Despairing in Allah's mercy IS A SIN- an enormous one.

The mercy of Allah is not limited like some people pretend it is. It outweighs whatever you did. Allah is greatly pleased when a servant comes back. Piety is returning when you inevitably do sin it is not to never sin. Not sinning is for angels. You are a human and it is expected that you will sin. Sin and repent a 1000 times a day it is fine. Piety is not a destination it is a journey you are okay as you are just keep your heart open to Allah.

 

[caanoshaah]

All imma say is you ain’t wrong The math ain’t mathing, you’re right. No point of jumping through hoops trying to defend it. Allah banned interest (riba) in fact it’s even a major sin but sex slavery is allowed ? Imma just be real asf it doesn’t add up im not gonna lie to myself and pretend there’s an answer sorry…. Like clearly one is more harmful than the other damn

 

[DojaKhat]

All imma say is you ain’t wrong The math ain’t mathing, you’re right. No point of jumping through hoops trying to defend it. Allah banned interest (riba) but not sex slavery? Imma just be real asf it doesn’t add up sorry clearly one is more harmful than the other damn

I'm fucken dead, everybody else on here is trying to talk me out of my doubts on Islam being the right religion but you come charging in here like "THIS RELIGION AIN'T REAL! IT'S ALL A PSYOP!"

 

[munaad]

Muslim men aren't allowed to just rape any woman they find.

What do you mean by this?

Besides, if all fails, ask yourself what the enemy of gaalo countries would do to your women if lost a war to them.

Also I don't get this point being made " oh other people are worse". We shouldn't judge our morals by what other people, especially gaalo, do.

 

[DojaKhat]

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[caanoshaah]

I'm fucken dead, everybody else on here is trying to talk me out of my doubts on Islam being the right religion but you come charging in here like "THIS RELIGION AIN'T REAL! IT'S ALL A PSYOP!"

I didn’t say all that but let’s be real clearly this is some contradiction that’s why there’s a back and forth back and forth instead of one clear answer this thread wouldn’t exist If it made sense …..

 

[DojaKhat]

I didn’t say all that but let’s be real clearly this is some contradiction that’s why there’s a back and forth back and forth instead of one clear answer this thread wouldn’t exist If it made sense …..

Yeah I know, it was just exaggerated banter, but I recommend reading @Angelina 's post about it on this thread. She gives some historical perspective on the matter, even though I still have my doubts and questions...

 

[Adeer_Boomer]

What do you mean by this?

Also I don't get this point being made " oh other people are worse". We shouldn't judge our morals by what other people, especially gaalo, do.

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.

 

[Adeer_Boomer]

1. as far as I know, safiyya(may Allah be pleased with her) was never a concubine. Rather the prophet ﷺ married her immediately from what I know. He also married her after she became a muslim.

The Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam married Safiyyah and Juwayriyah after they embraced Islam

I was reading about the marriage of Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu 699alayhi wa sallam on the other website and it was mentioned that Juwairiyyah bint Harith and Safiyya bint Huyayy may Allaah be pleased with them both showed hatred towards Islam before marrying the Prophet sallallaahu 699alayhi...

www.islamweb.net

also this below
View attachment 328272

2. your point about them becoming free if they become muslim is incorrect afaik too. As the right of the mujaahid comes before the right of the slave who afterwards becomes muslim, but ofc it is good to do so.

View attachment 328273

and it is DEFINITELY GOOD to do so in the case of slave women who become muslim View attachment 328274

you make very good points about what the kuffar without morals would do to the women though

Thank you for the corrections. I was recollecting this event from a class we took on bukhari 10 years ago.
Gaalso have no morals, well not all of them but the ones who are genociding Palestine for example, and the usa empire.
Look up what the U.S soldiers did to Viitenamese women. They gang raped them until some of the women's vagina's dropped and hung low like it was a penis. These people are disgusting creatures and they know no empathy when they win.

 

[DojaKhat]

I just finished watching it (had to take my time because of my busy workload), and I have a few issues with that video. Here goes...

We can go back and forth through the long lecture together using these timestamps I found in the comments, if needed:

View attachment 328238

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@Mudug_gyal

Did you forget about this thread? You said "we can unpack this together" so get in here, sis

 

[Adeer_Boomer]

@Mudug_gyal

Did you forget about this thread? You said "we can unpack this together" so get in here, sis

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[DojaKhat]

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Similar to what @Angelina said, I'm suspicious of the historical circumstances surrounding the narration of these fiqh rulings and hadith narrations. We already know that there were people who were enemies of the Prophet (SAW) during his time, so it isn't a stretch for some of these to be falsified. I mean, that's why hadith sciences exists as a subject in Islamic universities, to investigate the legitimacy of these chains of transmission.

However, I don't think it's wise to completely disregard hadiths altogether, they quite literally functioned as a way to perfect our religion.

 

[Mudug_gyal]

@Mudug_gyal

Did you forget about this thread? You said "we can unpack this together" so get in here, sis

Allah sorry I forgot to reply to the thread. I have a really short attention span sorry