Haplogroup T can be found iraqi Christians.

[niggaibnh]

Very interesting thing I’ve found .
First
I’m surprised they more J2 and R1B (non Semitic haplogroup) then J1(Semitic haplogroup)
Even The T haplogroup is higher then J1 haplogroup

But the important point is that T haplogroup is very common in Middle East it’s seems .
I’m leaning it more into Persian/kurds


But there might be connections with
Somalis with T haplogroup and Middle Eastern T haplogroup.

 

[Garaad Hirabu]

Zagros mountains is today settled by Iranian Kurds, so your right, T haplogroup might be proto Iranian people's that settled into Masopotania thousands of years ago.

 

[kaahin13]

Zagros mountains is today settled by Iranian Kurds, so your right, T haplogroup might be proto Iranian people's that settled into Masopotania thousands of years ago.

we wuz aryans and sht. But seriously, this doesnt tell us anything about how close their subclade is. Interesting theory is that T could have been spread to egypt when the assyrians conquered it, and from there spread throughout the nile valley and finally making its way into the horn.

 

[Northern Swordsman]

we wuz aryans and sht. But seriously, this doesnt tell us anything about how close their subclade is. Interesting theory is that T could have been spread to egypt when the assyrians conquered it, and from there spread throughout the nile valley and finally making its way into the horn.

There are several T-Haplogroup subgroups in the horn like the sahos in Eritrea and others but the somali one T-Y16897 is middle eastern especially the Arabian peninsula and its closest relatives are in Saudi Arabia.

I hope there will be more research done on the T-Haplogroup. I'm still uncertain if T is a Semitic or Indo-European haplogroup.

 

[kaahin13]

There are several T-Haplogroup subgroups in the horn like the sahos in Eritrea and others but the somali one T-Y16897 is middle eastern especially the Arabian peninsula and its closest relatives are in Saudi Arabia.

I hope there will be more research done on the T-Haplogroup. I'm still uncertain if T is a Semitic or Indo-European haplogroup.

Two samples with one coming from Mecca. For all we know they could be long lost Somalis

 

[Arabsiyawi]

Two samples with one coming from Mecca. For all we know they could be long lost Somalis

« In Somalis, the Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) was estimated to be 4000–5000 years (2,500 BCE) for the haplogroup E-M78 cluster γ and 2100–2200 years (150 BCE) for Somali T-M184 bearers. »
So far the data that these studies published, their results and what we can witness on YFull are not conflicting. In fact they seem to complete one another.
We know for sure that the TMRCA won’t exceed a lot more than 2k. This lineage came without a doubt directly from Arabia.

 

[kaahin13]

« In Somalis, the Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA) was estimated to be 4000–5000 years (2,500 BCE) for the haplogroup E-M78 cluster γ and 2100–2200 years (150 BCE) for Somali T-M184 bearers. »
So far the data that these studies published, their results and what we can witness on YFull are not conflicting. In fact they seem to complete one another.
We know for sure that the TMRCA won’t exceed a lot more than 2k. This lineage came without a doubt directly from Arabia.

The latest information we have from yfull is the tmrca for dir/isaaq T is 1550ybp. But even if we extend it back to 100 b.c, we still don't know if it came from arabia. This time frame would have coincided with increasing commercial ties between the somali coast and the hellenistic world. Why couldn't this lineage be brought by mercantile groups living in north-east africa? We know kulubnarti nubians for instance had t-l208. And some specific T lineages they had like T-Y31477 is dominated by saudis, but these nubians having arab origins doesnt make any sense.

There are a couple things that would convince me if it actually was an arabian lineage.
1. Diversity of this lineage represented by many arab tribes and countries. We know arabs are over-represented on yfull so this shouldnt be an issue, yet we don't see this.

2. TMRCA being quite old, talking about 4k ybp atleast. Old lineages make it clear that originated from that area. the arab samples are not this old so far with the oldest one being 2900ybp, similar to the nubian T-Y31477 which is 2800ybp.

3. Historic interaction with people. Yes we interacted with himyarites and sabaeans and have evidence of that.

4. Distribution of the lineage within the horn. So far the dir/isaaq branch of T is pretty exclusive to them, making it likely that these were lone individuals/related family members who settled in SL. arab branches would probably have greater distribution among other ethnic groups. There is a specific rahanwayne T lineage that is related to eritrean T, which is also related to various arab T lineages as well. That is more clearly an arab lineage than the dir/isaaq T one.

 

[Moholin01]

It’s also quite common among Assyrians and Armenians.

 

[Arabsiyawi]

The latest information we have from yfull is the tmrca for dir/isaaq T is 1550ybp. But even if we extend it back to 100 b.c, we still don't know if it came from arabia. This time frame would have coincided with increasing commercial ties between the somali coast and the hellenistic world. Why couldn't this lineage be brought by mercantile groups living in north-east africa? We know kulubnarti nubians for instance had t-l208. And some specific T lineages they had like T-Y31477 is dominated by saudis, but these nubians having arab origins doesnt make any sense.

There are a couple things that would convince me if it actually was an arabian lineage.
1. Diversity of this lineage represented by many arab tribes and countries. We know arabs are over-represented on yfull so this shouldnt be an issue, yet we don't see this.

2. TMRCA being quite old, talking about 4k ybp atleast. Old lineages make it clear that originated from that area. the arab samples are not this old so far with the oldest one being 2900ybp, similar to the nubian T-Y31477 which is 2800ybp.

3. Historic interaction with people. Yes we interacted with himyarites and sabaeans and have evidence of that.

4. Distribution of the lineage within the horn. So far the dir/isaaq branch of T is pretty exclusive to them, making it likely that these were lone individuals/related family members who settled in SL. arab branches would probably have greater distribution among other ethnic groups. There is a specific rahanwayne T lineage that is related to eritrean T, which is also related to various arab T lineages as well. That is more clearly an arab lineage than the dir/isaaq T one.

I don’t understand how you end up with such a conclusion tbh.
Academic studies, conducted on a large and diverse Somali population, stated that the TMRCA of all the T didn’t exceed 2k. It clearly concords with what we can see with individuals taking tests themselves.
Upstream of us there are only Arabs (a few so far but still, no Somalis upstream of them) and the next broader clade is shared with levantine originated populations. It’s quite clear that this path didn’t follow the main Cushitic one.
Also, if that very specific lineage existed within the OG Cushites, we would’ve surely seen other eastern Africans bear it to some levels.

 

[kaahin13]

I don’t understand how you end up with such a conclusion tbh.
Academic studies, conducted on a large and diverse Somali population, stated that the TMRCA of all the T didn’t exceed 2k. It clearly concords with what we can see with individuals taking tests themselves.
Upstream of us there are only Arabs (a few so far but still, no Somalis upstream of them) and the next broader clade is shared with levantine originated populations. It’s quite clear that this path didn’t follow the main Cushitic one.
Also, if that very specific lineage existed within the OG Cushites, we would’ve surely seen other eastern Africans bear it to some levels.

It's definitely not "cushitic" and never claimed it was. Just saying it likely wasnt introduced by migrants via south arabia. It also probably wasn't a land based migration either.

 

[mahamdov]

This is the village in which the Al-Mahoub clan Only 2200 years old lives near the Yemeni border , our closest relatives in the Markers
Be Proud of your Arab ancestors

 

[Arabsiyawi]

It's definitely not "cushitic" and never claimed it was. Just saying it likely wasnt introduced by migrants via south arabia. It also probably wasn't a land based migration either.

It’s either or. You can’t just say you think it wasn’t any of the two
T-BY182320 is present in southwestern Arabia. This is a fact tho

 

[Griezmann7711]

Very interesting thing I’ve found .
First
I’m surprised they more J2 and R1B (non Semitic haplogroup) then J1(Semitic haplogroup)
Even The T haplogroup is higher then J1 haplogroup

But the important point is that T haplogroup is very common in Middle East it’s seems .
I’m leaning it more into Persian/kurds


But there might be connections with
Somalis with T haplogroup and Middle Eastern T haplogroup.

"But there might be connections with
Somalis with T haplogroup and Middle Eastern T haplogroup."

There is not "might be", there is a clear connection between Somalis carrying haplogroup T and middle easterners carrying haplogroup T. Just look at this Y-Full DNA tree.

Here: T-Y45591*

Somalis with haplogroup T are matching with Saudi Arabians. I've also read that Somalis with haplogroup T matched with Banu Malik tribe of Kuwait. The T sub clade (branch) Somalis carry is gulf/levant/mesopotamian in origin.

 

[kaahin13]

"But there might be connections with
Somalis with T haplogroup and Middle Eastern T haplogroup."

There is not "might be", there is a clear connection between Somalis carrying haplogroup T and middle easterners carrying haplogroup T. Just look at this Y-Full DNA tree.

Here: T-Y45591*

Somalis with haplogroup T are matching with Saudi Arabians. I've also read that Somalis with haplogroup T matched with Banu Malik tribe of Kuwait. The T sub clade (branch) Somalis carry is gulf/levant/mesopotamian in origin.

Pretty sure that banu Malik T is not closely related to us over 6k year difference. I think it was under T-Z19971

 

[Griezmann7711]

Pretty sure that banu Malik T is not closely related to us over 6k year difference. I think it was under T-Z19971

To be honest I don't actually know how closely related we are to Banu Malik T, do you have a dna site or some other things where it shows how close we are?

 

[kaahin13]

To be honest I don't actually know how closely related we are to Banu Malik T, do you have a dna site or some other things where it shows how close we are?

I mistook the banu malik tribe for another. I guess someone claimed banu malik are under T-Y44591, but haven't seen any evidence of that

 

[Griezmann7711]

I mistook the banu malik tribe for another. I guess someone claimed banu malik are under T-Y44591, but haven't seen any evidence of that

"Pretty sure that banu Malik T is not closely related to us over 6k year difference. I think it was under T-Z19971" and here you say "I mistook the banu malik tribe for another.", so another clan that isn't banu Malik is T-Z19971?

 

[kaahin13]

"Pretty sure that banu Malik T is not closely related to us over 6k year difference. I think it was under T-Z19971" and here you say "I mistook the banu malik tribe for another.", so another clan that isn't banu Malik is T-Z19971?

I was thinking of kuwaiti tribe that was under T-Z19971. https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y31506/

 

[Griezmann7711]

I was thinking of kuwaiti tribe that was under T-Z19971. https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y31506/

is T-Y31506 part of T-Z19971?

 

[kaahin13]

"Pretty sure that banu Malik T is not closely related to us over 6k year difference. I think it was under T-Z19971" and here you say "I mistook the banu malik tribe for another.", so another clan that isn't banu Malik is T-Z19971?

btw were did you get the information about the banu malik being under T-Y45591?