Guys on a scale of 1 to 10 how mad do you think Somalilans will be when Somaliland exports oil and gives no revenue to Somalia?

[Awbarkhadle]

The british named you guys Somaliland.... no difference there.

The way you keep saying Somalians I'm having trouble believing you are Somali. Get out of here reer Ethiopia

I haven’t denied the british named us Somaliland nor do I have a problem with Somalilander. It is you who has a problem with Somalian.

 

[Cigaal Timacadde]

I understand where you're coming from. But I'm telling you now, no somali wakes up in the morning with hate on his heart about isaaq. At least your average somali. The kacaanka did good and bad. Only kacaan policy I despise was bombing innocent isaaqs in somaliland. So if people celebrate MSB they are celebrating him for what good he did, not what he did to the isaaqs.

I think you underestimate the hatefulness within Somalis. Case in point. A lot of the other Somaliland clans that have live with Isaaqs for centuries, relished what was happening during the genocide and gleefully joined in the killing and looting. They did that because of the age old hatred they had for Isaaqs and seized the opportunity to make their enemy pay. Some of the worst atrocities were committed by the Gadabuursi SDA militia, including burning people alive. That kind of hatred does not go away. Many Southerners that had no hatred for Isaaqs prior to the civil war have built it since then, including many MX. Such hatred is not unique or reserved to Isaaqs, but that is the example we were talking about here.

Peopl e want isaaq to move on, because really no one wants to remember what happened in the somali civil war. We rather move forward. We don't want to bring it up, too many bad memories. Too many lives lost.

Nothing wrong with wanting to get over the tragedy of the past. You won't achieve that by telling those with grievances to get over it, you do it by your actions. There has been no action by the South/Somalia in 30+ years that indicates the South wants to move on. Even Farmaajo's supposed recent "apology" was a slap in the face to all those that perished at the hands of the Somali government.

You also got to understand that people defend their warlods because of qabil. Somalia entered civil war, the warlods are the ones who protected their qabils and saved them from getting killed by other warlods. If somalia becomes a proper government then all the criminals and killers should be trialed and punished. But it's more likely they will be dead by the time somalia gets its shit together to persecute them. We can't do it right now cause every qabil will want defend their warlods and it becomes a shit show. 1 and 2 I'm surprised people actually do that. It's shameful but definitely not majority.

Fully agree with the first sentence, totally disagree with the second. For example, Morgan did nothing for his people, in fact he chose the side of the man killing many of his own. However, today he is protected and treated like a hero by his people in Puntland. Similarly, other clans want to protect their war criminals who fled the country and did nothing for their people Gaani, Tuke etc.

Forgetting about the past, the somali people are open to start a new page without hate. Isaaqs also need to stop thinking people hate them and are actively out to get them out. Which again is used by somaliland government to make hate between somalis.

I don't get where the notion comes from that the Somaliland government teaches hate for other Somalis. It's a dumb lie anti-Somalilanders tell themselves. The events that followed the Addis meeting between Farmaajo and Biixi perfectly depicts what the actual reality is. Biixi was happy to meet and welcome Farmaajo back to Hargeysa. However, as soon as the citizens of Somaliland heard what he had planned, they fiercely protested it in all the main cities with many even threatening violence against Biixi. That is why Biixi relented and cancelled the visit.
The reality is that every Somaliland president from Tuur to Cigaal all the way Biixi was/is more open to reconnecting with Somalia in some way, than the average Isaaq. I base that on what I've seen over 10 trips to Somaliland in the past 15 years.

 

[Villainess]

I haven’t denied the british named us Somaliland nor do I have a problem with Somalilander. It is you who has a problem with Somalian.

because my ancestors named themselves Somalis. Therefore I carry the name Somali with pride. I am not Somalian. Tf

 

[Bashi]

I think you underestimate the hatefulness within Somalis. Case in point. A lot of the other Somaliland clans that have live with Isaaqs for centuries, relished what was happening during the genocide and gleefully joined in the killing and looting. They did that because of the age old hatred they had for Isaaqs and seized the opportunity to make their enemy pay. Some of the worst atrocities were committed by the Gadabuursi SDA militia, including burning people alive. That kind of hatred does not go away. Many Southerners that had no hatred for Isaaqs prior to the civil war have built it since then, including many MX. Such hatred is not unique or reserved to Isaaqs, but that is the example we were talking about here.



Nothing wrong with wanting to get over the tragedy of the past. You won't achieve that by telling those with grievances to get over it, you do it by your actions. There has been no action by the South/Somalia in 30+ years that indicates the South wants to move on. Even Farmaajo's supposed recent "apology" was a slap in the face to all those that perished at the hands of the Somali government.


Fully agree with the first sentence, totally disagree with the second. For example, Morgan did nothing for his people, in fact he chose the side of the man killing many of his own. However, today he is protected and treated like a hero by his people in Puntland. Similarly, other clans want to protect their war criminals who fled the country and did nothing for their people Gaani, Tuke etc.

QUOTE="Bashi, post: 2503661, member: 13256"]
Forgetting about the past, the somali people are open to start a new page without hate. Isaaqs also need to stop thinking people hate them and are actively out to get them out. Which again is used by somaliland government to make hate between somalis.

I don't get where the notion comes from that the Somaliland government teaches hate for other Somalis. It's a dumb lie anti-Somalilanders tell themselves. The events that followed the Addis meeting between Farmaajo and Biixi perfectly depicts what the actual reality is. Biixi was happy to meet and welcome Farmaajo back to Hargeysa. However, as soon as the citizens of Somaliland heard what he had planned, they fiercely protested it in all the main cities with many even threatening violence against Biixi. That is why Biixi relented and cancelled the visit.
The reality is that every Somaliland president from Tuur to Cigaal all the way Biixi was/is more open to reconnecting with Somalia in some way, than the average Isaaq. I base that on what I've seen over 10 trips to Somaliland in the past 15 years.
[/QUOTE]

Why would mx hate isaaq? No reason, it's isaaq who hate mx because of msb. We have no hate for the isaaq. If we would have any hate, it would be for hootos who came and massacred innocent people in Gedo, but we don't hate them either now. The Gadabursi, ogaden and Mj have had rivalry with isaaq for a long time. It's because of clashes between ogaden and isaaq that SNM was first made. You guys should settle it as neighbours. Because this is an issue as old as qabil itself and it's a fight between qabils over grazing lands. Which all of the previously nomadic people move on from, but which somalis are still stuck in.

Morgan fought for the interests of MJ and darood. Forget about him fighting ssdf because he was a supporter of the kacaan. Many Mjs supported the kacaan too, and not all Mjs supported SSDF. In the civil war Morgan was fighting for MJ, he controlled kismayo and fought against USC which aideed commanded that's why people welcome him. Mainly because of qabil, but also because he did something for his clan. General Gaani aun did something for Mx too. He fought against the USC and was a main leader of mx during the civil war. Mx actually like him for his bravery. Even though he later stopped fighting. Tooke didn't do anything from what i remember. What was his qabil? All of them should be put on trial for whatever crimes people say they committed.

Dude are you telling me somaliland doesn't 24/7 put propaganda against other somalis? It has been doing that for 30 years. Even if it stopped now people still remember and it's in their hearts. So the government shouldn't act like it welcomes any somali president, they don't.

 

[Abdisamad]

 

[Cigaal Timacadde]

Why would mx hate isaaq? No reason, it's isaaq who hate mx because of msb. We have no hate for the isaaq. If we would have any hate, it would be for hootos who came and massacred innocent people in Gedo, but we don't hate them either now. The Gadabursi, ogaden and Mj have had rivalry with isaaq for a long time. It's because of clashes between ogaden and isaaq that SNM was first made. You guys should settle it as neighbours. Because this is an issue as old as qabil itself and it's a fight between qabils over grazing lands. Which all of the previously nomadic people move on from, but which somalis are still stuck in.

The Isaaq/MX hatred goes both ways and is very strong. From how you write, I can tell that you, along with plenty of other MX, have no hatred towards Isaaqs, Likewise there are plenty of Isaaqs who have no hatred towards MX. However, the general feeling between Isaaq and MX is strong dislike if not hatred. It is silly to pretend otherwise. I am not Marexaan so it is hard for me to say why many of them hate Isaaqs. I can speculate that they blame the Isaaqs for the downfall of the Afweyne regime. I can speculate on a number of other theories, but I have no insight to know one way or the other.

I'd say the only clan that has no real issue with Isaaqs is Hawiye, with whom if anything they have been allies more than enemies in the past.

Morgan fought for the interests of MJ and darood. Forget about him fighting ssdf because he was a supporter of the kacaan. Many Mjs supported the kacaan too, and not all Mjs supported SSDF. In the civil war Morgan was fighting for MJ, he controlled kismayo and fought against USC which aideed commanded that's why people welcome him. Mainly because of qabil, but also because he did something for his clan. General Gaani aun did something for Mx too. He fought against the USC and was a main leader of mx during the civil war. Mx actually like him for his bravery. Even though he later stopped fighting. Tooke didn't do anything from what i remember. What was his qabil? All of them should be put on trial for whatever crimes people say they committed.

Saaxib, don't kid anyone. Morgan primarily fought on behalf of Mareexaan and Ogadeen during the wars. SNF, SPM were mostly MX and OG militias who later united with other Darood orgs. I'm sure the MJ interests in Kismaayo played a factor in his fight for it, but that was secondary. His fight with the Hawiye started because they annihilated his dear Afweyne's power.

The bolded in your reply is symbolic of what I am talking about. There is no crimes "people say they committed" with Morgan, Gaani and Tuke, they are documented war criminals who should be shot on the spot. Morgan literally wrote letters to Afweyne boasting about the "extermination of the qurmis" referring to the Isaaq. There are videos on Youtube of him ordering the shelling of civilian neighbourhoods in Hargeysa. Gaani was in charge of the army that carried out mass executions of civilians. There are pictures of Tuke (I believe he is Dhulbahante) where he smiles to the camera whilst posing with the dead bodies of civilians they've just killed. These are all very well known pieces of evidence, yet you're saying it is a case of "crimes people say they committed". That is the sort of downplaying I'm talking about.

For the likes of Abdullahi Yusuf, QoorQoor, Muuse Biixi etc who are accused of committing crimes you can say we need evidence, because I have never seen it. If evidence like the above surfaces about any of them, I'll be the first to say they should be executed.

Dude are you telling me somaliland doesn't 24/7 put propaganda against other somalis? It has been doing that for 30 years. Even if it stopped now people still remember and it's in their hearts. So the government shouldn't act like it welcomes any somali president, they don't.

Show me on iota of evidence the government of Somaliland has put out propaganda against other Somali people. They have said plenty about the Government of Somalia, that is true but I have yet to see them saying it was these people or those people that did the genocide. The Government of Somalia is the one that is withholding aid, revoking licenses of charities for operating in Somaliland, threatening companies from doing business in Somalia and generally standing in the way of any progress Somaliland wants to make. The Somali people aren't doing any of that. Somaliland has every right to say that the Government of Somalia is the number 1 enemy of Somaliland.