GERD dam and Conflict in Ethiopia

AbdiGeedi

To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
I think this discussion deserves its own thread instead of being drowned in the other sticky thread that has over a hundred pages.

There is an understanding in the world that fresh water disputes have a potential to become a major source for conflicts in this century as opposed to the oil and gas.

There are three hot spots that can spiral out of control.

1. China-Indian dispute over the flow of Brahmaputra river along their border in Tibet
2. Turkey vs Iraq/Syria over dams built in the Tigris–Euphrates river system
3. Ethiopia vs Egypt/Sudan over Blue Nile GERD dam

China, Turkey and Ethiopia are damming the rivers with their own funds as international financial instruments have refused participate in them.

Ethiopia is spending $4.6 billions on the GERD. Turkey has put $32 billions of its own money in the series of dams on Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

Interestingly, after the Turks started building dams the Kurdish PKK terrorist group was created to wage war against Turkey.

It is presumed that the GERD dispute is likely to be the first to explode.

In the Arab media, namely in Egypt, a notion of Pan-Arabian response against the grab of fresh water resources by Ethiopia, Turkey, Israel and Iran is being cultivated. The recent Egyptian moves in Sudan and South Sudan are in line. The idea here is to destabilize Ethiopia the Balkan style by supporting guerilla movements and grab the dam intact from weakened Ethiopia.

Egypt and Sudan had their very first joint military exercises recently and also signed military contracts on joint manufacturing of small caliber arms and air defense systems. There were Egyptian Air force cargo planes photographed in Juba, South Sudan's capital. Presumably, Egypt delivered arms to South Sudan.

In short, Egypt is forming an Arab front in the region against Ethiopia. It is even trying to sideline the UAE and convince Saudi Arabia to join in as it was recently evidenced by the call of the Egyptian FM to his Saudi counter part.

Ethiopia has a very weak point of being multi-ethnic state with each major ethnic group being strong enough to not allow other ethnic groups to dominate in the long run and being able seek its own path, hence, the Yugoslavia example. I think that Egypt will covertly provide support to the TPLF and OLF. All these liberation movements will have a new phase in their existence and become the second PKK.

It's predicted that Egypt's population will reach 225 millions by 2100 and there is no way Egypt is going to allow the GERD dam to be out of its reach.

Knowing that on one hand, Afwerki is Egypt's bıtch and and on another hand, the master of the Horn, I wonder how Eritrea fits into the Egyptian plans.

And this is what was posted today by @Django :

Sudanese forces enter disputed territory in Tigray after 25 years.

 
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It's interesting how both Egypt and Ethiopia went from completely disregarding Sudan for decades to suddenly begging them to side with them on the dam issue. You have Ethiopians claiming Sudan supports Ethiopia then you have Egyptians claiming Sudan supports Egypt.

In literally just 2 years Halaib went from this
09_big.jpg


To this
128643203_3644341598942697_4261995229635420227_n.jpg


All because Egyptians are realizing too late that they cannot survive unless they have influence over their neighbors to the south. Now they're investing in the region because they know Egypt will be barren in just a few years as the Nile delta is running dry.
 

AbdiGeedi

To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
@Asaana

Seeing how Egypt handed over Tiran and Sanafir islands in the Red sea to Saudi Arabia and offered a chunk of its territory to form a new Palestinian state in exchange of them giving up the West Bank, I wonder what is the future of the disputed Hala'ib region between Egypt and Sudan.
 
@Asaana

Seeing how Egypt handed over Tiran and Sanafir islands in the Red sea to Saudi Arabia and offered a chunk of its territory to form a new Palestinian state in exchange of them giving up the West Bank, I wonder what is the future of the disputed Hala'ib region between Egypt and Sudan.
When asked which country they side with residents of Hala'ib said "our heart and mind belongs to Sudan but our stomach belongs to Egypt" due to how well the Egyptian government provides for them. They built a lot of housing, hospitals, schools, roads, solar stations, and are even gonna build ports.
 

AbdiGeedi

To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
When asked which country they side with residents of Hala'ib said "our heart and mind belongs to Sudan but our stomach belongs to Egypt" due to how well the Egyptian government provides for them. They built a lot of housing, hospitals, schools, roads, solar stations, and are even gonna build ports.
That's what I call the Nubian logic. :ftw9nwa:
 

Octavian

Hmm
VIP
There should be water beneath the sand instead of going, to war why not pump that water out like Gadafi did. Its pointless to wage a resource war but at the same time i welcome the destablizing of our neighbour. Its barbaric and has the hall mark of high grade efriqien thinking. Yet it paints a painting of lush gardens as far as the eye can see and a sky as clear as the ocean.
 

AbdiGeedi

To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
China vs India conflict has a potential to go nuclear. For this reason both sides will try to keep the rivalry within the diplomatic realm. The occasional spill-overs will be quickly put out. In conventional war, India has no chance against China.

China was able to produce two stealth fighter jets in a short period of time:
a) J-20 which is analog to the American F-22
b) J-31 that is similar to F-35

China helped Pakistan to produce JF-17 Thunder jet fighter.

India couldn't produce its own indigenous jet fighter at par with the Chinese. It seems India has abandoned its Tejas fighter jet program for practical purposes as it opted out to buy the French Rafaels recently. It also pulled out of the Russian SU-57 stealth fighter program due to production delays and uncertainties on the Russian side. Their only success is a joint production of SU-30.

In reality, China is gonna do what it wants regarding the damming due to its superiority in its army discipline and military industrial complex.



 
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Karim

I could agree with you but then we’d both be wrong
HALYEEY
VIP
China is toying with the current weakened Indian government. They're facing China's terrestrial aggression in the Himalayas, maritime encroachments in the sea and now disputes over river waters. Why is China so cruel to India?! Wow
 

AbdiGeedi

To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
Turkey vs Syria/Iraq confrontation is one-sided in favor of the former. Forget about the water issues. Turkey controls parts of both Syria and Iraq at the moment and de facto annexed its Syrian occupied territories where the Syrians de facto use the Turkish lira and postal service.

In Iraq, Turkey has a network of military bases and routinely conducts anti-terrorism operations deep inside Iraqi territory. The Iraqi Kurdistan is largely dependent on Turkey for its survival. Recently Erdogan threatened to take over the Sinjar region of Iraq if the Iraqi government didn't kick PKK out of there. The Iraqis obliged.

I believe Turkey has a grand plan to eventually take over Aleppo, Mosul and Kirkuk as it considers these cities historically theirs and stolen by the Brits and French during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

So, neither Syria nor Iraq has any chance against Turkey in the water dispute.
 

Octavian

Hmm
VIP
China is toying with the current weakened Indian government. They're facing China's terrestrial aggression in the Himalayas, maritime encroachments in the sea and now disputes over river waters. Why is China so cruel to India?! Wow
isn't obvious more lands more money more resources more manpower and closer to europs markeds they want their glory back that they once had.
 

Octavian

Hmm
VIP
Turkey vs Syria/Iraq confrontation is one-sided in favor of the former. Forget about the water issues. Turkey controls parts of both Syria and Iraq at the moment and de facto annexed its Syrian occupied territories where the Syrians de facto use the Turkish lira and postal service.

In Iraq, Turkey has a network of military bases and routinely conducts anti-terrorism operations deep inside Iraqi territory. The Iraqi Kurdistan is largely dependent on Turkey for its survival. Turkey threatened to take over the Sinjar region of Iraq if the Iraqi government didn't kick PKK out of there. The Iraqis obliged.

I believe Turkey has grand plan to eventually take over Aleppo, Mosul and Kirkuk as it considers these cities historically theirs and stolen by the Brits and French during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

So, neither Syria nor Iraq has any chance against Turkey in the water dispute.
so just like the past the middel east will be run by foreigners for the next 2000+ years.
 

AbdiGeedi

To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
China is toying with the current weakened Indian government. They're facing China's terrestrial aggression in the Himalayas, maritime encroachments in the sea and now disputes over river waters. Why is China so cruel to India?! Wow
India is not China's main concern at the moment. It's about the US Navy controlling the maritime trade routes in Asia. The area around Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia seems to be of particular contention.

China is building up its Navy at a crazy rate, including building aircraft carriers. I think it is the main reason why the US now equips its F-35 stealth fighters with tactical nuclear bombs to be released at supersonic speeds. These bombs are intended for stopping enemy forces in case of confrontation.
 

AbdiGeedi

To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
so just like the past the middel east will be run by foreigners for the next 2000+ years.
The Turks and Persians are old powers. There is nothing strange about them slowly coming back to geopolitical power.

For contrast, most modern Arab countries have their beginnings in the European power halls and secret Zionist meetings. For example, modern Syria and Iraq and the Gulf countries are the British and French projects.

No Western power ever controlled Turkey or Iran. At their times of weakness, both nations were quick to ward off the invaders and take back the reigns. On top of it, Turkey ruled most Arab territories before Europeans were able to grab the land due to industrial and military superiority.

There is a fundamental difference between Turkey/Iran and the Arab nations.
 

AbdiGeedi

To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
Now let's get back at the issue of the GERD. To me it seems the main issue for Egypt was the geographical distance from Ethiopia and the inconvenience of having uncooperative Sudan under Omar al-Bashir. Otherwise, the Egyptian army is considerably stronger and much better equipped than Ethiopian's. Egypt could have quickly put a stop to the project if it had physical border with Ethiopia close to the dam.

Despite the fact that Egypt was successful at ousting al-Bashir and installing the puppet government in Sudan with the help of the Israel and the Gulf Monarchies, it is a bit late to act as Ethiopia is at final stages of making the dam fully operational. Hence, the need for the alternative plan.

The major upside of the delay is that Egypt was able to considerably upgrade its army at the expense of the Gulf countries and the US thanks to these countries having a perceived threat of the Muslim Brotherhood and Turkey for the region.
 

Marshall D Abdi

Know you’re place peasant
Now let's get back at the issue of the GERD. To me it seems the main issue for Egypt was the geographical distance from Ethiopia and the inconvenience of having uncooperative Sudan under Omar al-Bashir. Otherwise, the Egyptian army is considerably stronger and much better equipped than Ethiopian's. Egypt could have quickly put a stop to the project if it had physical border with Ethiopia close to the dam.

Despite the fact that Egypt was successful at ousting al-Bashir and installing the puppet government in Sudan with the help of the Israel and the Gulf Monarchies, it is a bit late to act as Ethiopia is at final stages of making the dam fully operational. Hence, the need for the alternative plan.

The major upside of the delay is that Egypt was able to considerably upgrade its army at the expense of the Gulf countries and the US thanks to these countries having a perceived threat of the Muslim Brotherhood and Turkey for the region.
Can you provide map of how much turkey controls iraq n syria like neo ottoman empire
 

AbdiGeedi

To keep your balance, you must keep moving.
Can you provide map of how much turkey controls iraq n syria like neo ottoman empire

1. Syria: Blue and light blue areas are under the Turkish control

syria-turkey.jpg





2. Iraq: Turkey has a network of military bases in Iraq. In 2018, it had 11 bases. I believe right now the count close to 20.

iraq-turkey.png


2018:


2020:
 
I think this discussion deserves its own thread instead of being drowned in the other sticky thread that has over a hundred pages.

There is an understanding in the world that fresh water disputes have a potential to become a major source for conflicts in this century as opposed to the oil and gas.

There are three hot spots that can spiral out of control.

1. China-Indian dispute over the flow of Brahmaputra river along their border in Tibet
2. Turkey vs Iraq/Syria over dams built in the Tigris–Euphrates river system
3. Ethiopia vs Egypt/Sudan over Blue Nile GERD dam

China, Turkey and Ethiopia are damming the rivers with their own funds as international financial instruments have refused participate in them.

Ethiopia is spending $4.6 billions on the GERD. Turkey has put $32 billions of its own money in the series of dams on Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

Interestingly, after the Turks started building dams the Kurdish PKK terrorist group was created to wage war against Turkey.

It is presumed that the GERD dispute is likely to be the first to explode.

In the Arab media, namely in Egypt, a notion of Pan-Arabian response against the grab of fresh water resources by Ethiopia, Turkey, Israel and Iran is being cultivated. The recent Egyptian moves in Sudan and South Sudan are in line. The idea here is to destabilize Ethiopia the Balkan style by supporting guerilla movements and grab the dam intact from weakened Ethiopia.

Egypt and Sudan had their very first joint military exercises recently and also signed military contracts on joint manufacturing of small caliber arms and air defense systems. There were Egyptian Air force cargo planes photographed in Juba, South Sudan's capital. Presumably, Egypt delivered arms to South Sudan.

In short, Egypt is forming an Arab front in the region against Ethiopia. It is even trying to sideline the UAE and convince Saudi Arabia to join in as it was recently evidenced by the call of the Egyptian FM to his Saudi counter part.

Ethiopia has a very weak point of being multi-ethnic state with each major ethnic group being strong enough to not allow other ethnic groups to dominate in the long run and being able seek its own path, hence, the Yugoslavia example. I think that Egypt will covertly provide support to the TPLF and OLF. All these liberation movements will have a new phase in their existence and become the second PKK.

It's predicted that Egypt's population will reach 225 millions by 2100 and there is no way Egypt is going to allow the GERD dam to be out of its reach.

Knowing that on one hand, Afwerki is Egypt's bıtch and and on another hand, the master of the Horn, I wonder how Eritrea fits into the Egyptian plans.

And this is what was posted today by @Django :

liberation movement(s) for Benishangul Muslim natives who live near GERD and who want help to stop Xabash/Oromo migrants ovetwhelming their fertile region that type of liberation front could be have more impact

It's interesting how both Egypt and Ethiopia went from completely disregarding Sudan for decades to suddenly begging them to side with them on the dam issue. You have Ethiopians claiming Sudan supports Ethiopia then you have Egyptians claiming Sudan supports Egypt.

In literally just 2 years Halaib went from this
09_big.jpg


To this
128643203_3644341598942697_4261995229635420227_n.jpg


All because Egyptians are realizing too late that they cannot survive unless they have influence over their neighbors to the south. Now they're investing in the region because they know Egypt will be barren in just a few years as the Nile delta is running dry.

Egypt's military oligarchy wasted decades on their failed Middle East focus instead of worrying about water for their docile subjects. Their biggest accomplishment is choking the Egyptian economy and getting smoked by Israel during the 6 Day war.

its great they if they reorient their foreign policy because the Egyptian junta has failed Palestinians and now Egyptian army maintins a blockade against Gaza
 
liberation movement(s) for Benishangul Muslim natives who live near GERD and who want help to stop Xabash/Oromo migrants ovetwhelming their fertile region that type of liberation front could be have more impact

Egypt's military oligarchy wasted decades on their failed Middle East focus instead of worrying about water for their docile subjects. Their biggest accomplishment is choking the Egyptian economy and getting smoked by Israel during the 6 Day war.

its great they if they reorient their foreign policy because the Egyptian junta has failed Palestinians and now Egyptian army maintins a blockade against Gaza
I remember when the dam was first announced many Sudanese people were shocked because Benishangul used to be a part of Sudan (just like how Kassala and Gedaref were a part of Ethiopia). There are rumors that some Ethiopian politicians want to trade the dam for some coastline + arable land but I know many civilians in both countries would oppose the swap.

The stupid part is Egypt invaded Halaib out of hostility when they could've easily persuaded those in Halaib + Shamaliyah state (rich in gold, water, farmland, and only has 800k people) to join Egypt.
 
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