HISTORY Futuh al-Habasha: Somalis As Bedouins

[Step a side]

@daljirkadahsoon
These two information below contradict each other. Amda Seyon’s chronicles from the early 14th century that Mekuria references states that Harla and Hobat are two different kingdoms but then you have others linking the two. See the difference.

That definition below is by Somali academic Abdala Mansur in his book qaamuuska afsoomaaliga. Ignore the map. It was made by a random Habesha person. They are shooting themselves in the foot by placing Ifat and Hobat inside Harla

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

@daljirkadahsoon
These two information below contradict each other. Amda Seyon’s chronicles from the early 14th century that Mekuria references states that Harla and Hobat are two different kingdoms but then you have others linking the two. See the difference.

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That definition below is by Somali academic Abdala Mansur in his book qaamuuska afsoomaaliga. Ignore the map. It was made by a random person

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Yeah I've seen this confusion of the two and wasn't sure what to make of it!

As for the 'Maya', were you able to come across anything about their identity or any history associated with them.

It does strike me as odd that it is very close to 'Maay' I wonder if it was just another settled Somali/proto-Somali people. There is also apparently a meaning for it in old Somali.

So the Imam's hometown is around Qundhura? What do you make of the claims of groups like the Silte people?

 

[Midas]

Yeah I've seen this confusion of the two and wasn't sure what to make of it!

As for the 'Maya', were you able to come across anything about their identity or any history associated with them.

It does strike me as odd that it is very close to 'Maay' I wonder if it was just another settled Somali/proto-Somali people. There is also apparently a meaning for it in old Somali.

So the Imam's hometown is around Qundhura? What do you make of the claims of groups like the Silte people?

I honestly think we need dna tests to fully flesh out the picture. I mean aren't a lot of amahara's agaw that were semeticized. There is a million of them so I don't think their origin is as recent as the other ethiosemetic groups. Like gurage or agrobba which speaking of somebody posted a thread on Twitter about how agrobba was the name of the region and that they're were actually amharas that were converted when somalis took over the region. But then I can't rember either the somalis where assimilated or fled/killed after the adal wars.

 

[Step a side]

Yeah I've seen this confusion of the two and wasn't sure what to make of it!

As for the 'Maya', were you able to come across anything about their identity or any history associated with them.

It does strike me as odd that it is very close to 'Maay' I wonder if it was just another settled Somali/proto-Somali people. There is also apparently a meaning for it in old Somali.

So the Imam's hometown is around Qundhura? What do you make of the claims of groups like the Silte people?

The Maya around Harar are sub of Kaariye unless we are talking about a different Maya in which case we have to do more research on them.

Qundhura was the centre of Hobat way before imam existed. They imam or his soldiers did use it lakin as a military outpost. The oldest feral horses in SSA Africa are found here. They are known as the Kundudo pack.

 

[Step a side]

I honestly think we need dna tests to fully flesh out the picture. I mean aren't a lot of amahara's agaw that were semeticized. There is a million of them so I don't think their origin is as recent as the other ethiosemetic groups. Like gurage or agrobba which speaking of somebody posted a thread on Twitter about how agrobba was the name of the region and that they're were actually amharas that were converted when somalis took over the region. But then I can't rember either the somalis where assimilated or fled/killed after the adal wars.

@daljirkadahsoon Siilte and Gurage live far from Harla and Ifat. These lands were all confederates and small principalities, e.g dawaro, hadya, arabini, harar, hobat, bale, fatagar etc The Siilte must have been part of one of these.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

@daljirkadahsoon Siilte and Gurage live far from Harla and Ifat. These lands were all confederates and small principalities, e.g dawaro, hadya, arabini, harar, hobat, bale, fatagar etc The Siilte must have been part of one of these.

I was asking because Silte say they are descendants of Imam Ahmad's scattered armies. They also say they are Harla. The Harari also say so.

I believe they are at least in part so because they even have clans that claim very specific Somali jilibs

I'm wondering if Harla was a land based confederacy or sorts.

 

[ImAi]

what he wrote is incorrect, Its not Ba alawi manuscript but a book by a Somali historian named Ahmed Abdullah rirash
احمد عبدالله ريراش
His book name :
كشف السّدول عن تاريخ الصومال وممالكهم السبعة

Is the information in this book accurate? I thought I’d give it read.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Check this gem!


Italian ecologist and professor Marco Vigano went to search for ancient Hobat, Dhakar etc. His work is literally used by the Ethiopian official travel guide. The same ancient structures and fortresses found in Dir Dawa and Addis were found there. They also found old masajids.

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I didn’t know stone fortresses and citadels from the Adalite/Medieval era were still around! This reminds me of the book “Victories of Amda Seyon” when the author mentions whenever he invaded a town in Ifat, he razed down large fortresses that were unseen and didn’t exist in the land of Abyssinia.

 

[Step a side]

I was asking because Silte say they are descendants of Imam Ahmad's scattered armies. They also say they are Harla. The Harari also say so.

I believe they are at least in part so because they even have clans that claim very specific Somali jilibs

I'm wondering if Harla was a land based confederacy or sorts.

Every Muslim community in the Horn has some sort of connection with the imam. Some of the Hararis are legit Somalis like the clans Abogn and the Adash. Those are named after Abun and Adash. There are even towns named after them within Harar district. The vast majority of them lakin are straight Habesha Muslims that decided to live with the Muslims out of fear of Christian persecutions.

The fact that the entire Harla contingent was led by Sultan Mohamed ibn Gasa ibn Omar is proof that they were sedentary Somalis. I’m assuming they were composed of different clans that came under 1 umbrella. The Somalis in the region are all farmers be they Dir, Darood or Hawiye

 

[BoqoradaSoomaliyeed]

I could be incorrect or misremembering but doesn’t rahnweyne have a sub-clan called gerri? I remember seeing somewhere that they used to live in galbeed but migrated later on. And we know they weren’t a Bedouin clan so could the Geri here be them? I’ll try to find where I saw it and link it.

If you have a Substack it would be a good idea to write on there.

Yes, there are lost geri koombe amongst the raxanweyn, and belong to the subclans of “luwaay” and “yantaar”! **

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Every Muslim community in the Horn has some sort of connection with the imam. Some of the Hararis are legit Somalis like the clans Abogn and the Adash. Those are named after Abun and Adash. There are even towns named after them within Harar district. The vast majority of them lakin are straight Habesha Muslims that decided to live with the Muslims out of fear of Christian persecutions.

The fact that the entire Harla contingent was led by Sultan Mohamed ibn Gasa ibn Omar is proof that they were sedentary Somalis. I’m assuming they were composed of different clans that came under 1 umbrella. The Somalis in the region are all farmers be they Dir, Darood or Hawiye

How and where did the current Harari language originate? This is something they always bring up as a gotcha and they keep saying that all these words can only be explained in their language.

 

[Step a side]

How and where did the current Harari language originate? This is something they always bring up as a gotcha and they keep saying that all these words can only be explained in their language.

Harari language is extremely close to Amharic language according to linguists. They seem to have been Habesha Muslims that relocated to Harar.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Harari language is extremely close to Amharic language according to linguists. They seem to have been Habesha Muslims that relocated to Harar.

Oh so this is actually true? I saw Argobba is even classified as a dialect of Amharic. I didn't know Harari was also considered very close.

This period of history is so interesting honestly the place seems to have changed very dramatically very quickly when Adal fell. I did see something about Habasha Muslims being chased by expanding Oromo

 

[Step a side]

Oh so this is actually true? I saw Argobba is even classified as a dialect of Amharic. I didn't know Harari was also considered very close.

This period of history is so interesting honestly the place seems to have changed very dramatically very quickly when Adal fell. I did see something about Habasha Muslims being chased by expanding Oromo

Ask them why are Harari tribes not found in the country sides of Harar

In London you will find immigrants from all over the world. You would think it’s India or Africa but as soon as you leave the city and go to the country side you will see 99% white people. That’s how you know they are native to the country and therefore natives of London as well despite being a minority in the capital.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Ask them why are Harari tribes not found in the country sides of Harar

In London you will find immigrants from all over the world. You would think it’s India or Africa but as soon as you leave the city and go to the country side you will see 99% white people. That’s how you know they are native to the country and therefore natives of London as well despite being a minority in the capital.

They will answer saying most of their people either died, got assimilated into Oromo and dispersed or went south (like the Silte). I am not saying it is what happened but this is what I've heard them say before.

It is true tbh that the Harari even in recent times have had their land encroached on and made a minority.

 

[Step a side]

They will answer saying most of their people either died, got assimilated into Oromo and dispersed or went south (like the Silte). I am not saying it is what happened but this is what I've heard them say before.

It is true tbh that the Harari even in recent times have had their land encroached on and made a minority.

They were always confined within the city walls. Harari and Oromo were absent in Futuh. They will claim Harla after you mention that to them No point in arguing with them. They are miskeen people who suffered a lot.

 

[giire12]

I remember Oromo friend saying, the word hargeisa is Oromo in origin. Including cities like zaylac, berbera, jigjiga Dira Dawa, Ceelwaaq, garbaharey and etc. I have no clue and cant remember some of the cities he mentioned to me, but his very knowledgable when it comes to "magaloyinka somalida". So he believes Hargeysa is referring to the aloe vera plant translated as dacar in Somali. He specifically said "boo Hargeisa fidi " meaning bring the aloe vera. In those times dacar was used as an antibiotic in their traditional medicine.

My argument was that as somalis we believe Hargeisa was named of haraga geyska which means far west of sheep wool. Some elders also told me that Hargeysa means Harr Gey Sa as trading city Harka or trading city of Heralla.

Any of you guys come across this meaning of Hargeisa or other cities in Somalia? Ceelwaaq? Jigjiga? Diri Dawa? Zayla? Etc, was any of them mentioned in futuh al habash? Or did they have different names?

 

[The alchemist]

We need to reclaim coffee from these people. Them being associate with it when coffee drinking was taboo up until the early 20th century is such BS

The coffee associated with "Ethiopia" today, a late state expansion conception that invaded those places long after and then appropriated everything it never represented (in fact, abhorred) later, is a farce. Now, retelling the story as if some Tigray farmer has an equal claim to the history of what his ancestors never claimed or participated in.

A newer, separate matter exists today. Ethiopians consume coffee in all regions, including the Christian-majority places in the highlands, where it primarily is a modern enjoyment, a noteworthy thing. Of course, the relation to coffee in the Muslim lands is different in its suite of preparation and one can say that whatever practice of coffee drinking in the highlands is a mainstream commercial version of that, spreading post-19th century. So Habash person enjoys coffee daily and we cannot deny that.

The issue comes if the same Habash claims, as I have observed through this Ethiopianism framing, the older coffee-drinking tradition of Muslims, by shoehorning a fabricated Habash-Muslim stand-in, removing the Somali character altogether, then falsely presenting it as an internal invention that was merely an extension of Absissinya because they want to push that the Muslims were and is an Abissinyan extended diversity. That is why in modern history books, the region we talk about in this thread, Ifat-Adal, was fundamentally placed as a civil conflict.

I want people to know that this thing is anti-Somali, deliberately so. It is one of the least explicitly mentioned but the most elaborately apparent things of systematically trying to divorce Somalis from their own history. This is because the predominant Somali factor is a problem for their justifications of holding historically Muslim lands and expansionary ideology.

 

[The alchemist]

I remember Oromo friend saying, the word hargeisa is Oromo in origin. Including cities like zaylac, berbera, jigjiga Dira Dawa, Ceelwaaq, garbaharey and etc. I have no clue and cant remember some of the cities he mentioned to me, but his very knowledgable when it comes to "magaloyinka somalida". So he believes Hargeysa is referring to the aloe vera plant translated as dacar in Somali. He specifically said "boo Hargeisa fidi " meaning bring the aloe vera. In those times dacar was used as an antibiotic in their traditional medicine.

My argument was that as somalis we believe Hargeisa was named of haraga geyska which means far west of sheep wool. Some elders also told me that Hargeysa means Harr Gey Sa as trading city Harka or trading city of Heralla.

Any of you guys come across this meaning of Hargeisa or other cities in Somalia? Ceelwaaq? Jigjiga? Diri Dawa? Zayla? Etc, was any of them mentioned in futuh al habash? Or did they have different names?

There is no room for Ormos to have lived in any of those areas anytime in history besides maybe on an individual basis amidst Somalis. Archeology, oral history, written history extant demographics, genetics, and all types of anthropology go against this notion of Oromo presence in Somaliland.

Shoddy coincidental word use is too low of a bar to consider. No one takes that seriously.

 

[Yami]

I remember Oromo friend saying, the word hargeisa is Oromo in origin. Including cities like zaylac, berbera, jigjiga Dira Dawa, Ceelwaaq, garbaharey and etc. I have no clue and cant remember some of the cities he mentioned to me, but his very knowledgable when it comes to "magaloyinka somalida". So he believes Hargeysa is referring to the aloe vera plant translated as dacar in Somali. He specifically said "boo Hargeisa fidi " meaning bring the aloe vera. In those times dacar was used as an antibiotic in their traditional medicine.

My argument was that as somalis we believe Hargeisa was named of haraga geyska which means far west of sheep wool. Some elders also told me that Hargeysa means Harr Gey Sa as trading city Harka or trading city of Heralla.

Any of you guys come across this meaning of Hargeisa or other cities in Somalia? Ceelwaaq? Jigjiga? Diri Dawa? Zayla? Etc, was any of them mentioned in futuh al habash? Or did they have different names?

What that Oromo dude was saying is rubbish. Since Afaan Oromo and Af Soomaali are both Lowland Cushitic languages there’s bound to be some words that will sound similar in both languages. I’ll clarify your question to the best of my ability


Hargeisa has always been a Somali settlement. The area was originally called Togga Herer, a watering and trading ground for geeljires from Habar Garxajis, a old Isaaq confederation of Ciidagale, Arap and Isxaaq Carre Habar Yoonis. This clan was different from modern Garxajis since it included Arap who were under the protection of the two other clans above


it was established as a town by Sufi Sheikh Madar Axmed Shirwac with 8 other mullahs as a stopping spot to prevent caravan looting from happening in the late 19th century. It then evolved into a bigger town when more clans like Sacad Muuse started moving in from the north.

Hargeisa’s name derives from hargaha geysa place to take your hides to sell. Reflecting the old tradition of the town.


Ceel waaq was administered by Warra Dayya Oromo for a few centuries after the gaal madow wars but before their migration that town was also Somali.


Ceel Waaq = well of waaq.


Dir Dhabe is Gurgura Dir land. It means where Dir stuck his spear into the ground. Ethiopia has done a number on that town ethnicity replacing the Somali population like they did with Harar. Despite its current situation it was previously a Somali settlement.


I’m not sure on Jigjiga and Zeila though. Jigjiga probably has a Somali origin I’m not too sure with Zeila though given the Z sound in the name. Other users can probably clarify that though